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Australian Economics
- Thread starter 1eyedtiger
- Start date
Phantom said:
Further,
For a volume that explains the mathematics behind these theories of economics, I would recommend,
Economics; An Introductory Analysis, Paul Anthony Samuelson, 1948
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Economics-Introductory-Analysis-Paul-Samuelson/dp/0070747415
Wow! Trying to follow this thread is all a bit too much for my 1970's high school education ;D
Our household is living "fly by the seat of our pants" economics:
Christmas, New Year, Holidays & Back To School we use the ALP system - spend like there's no tomorrow & to hell with the credit card debt!
From now we'll use the Coalition system - austerity, unpopular decisions (with the kids anyway), reduce debt & try to live within our means!
And now, back to the economics lectures
Our household is living "fly by the seat of our pants" economics:
Christmas, New Year, Holidays & Back To School we use the ALP system - spend like there's no tomorrow & to hell with the credit card debt!
From now we'll use the Coalition system - austerity, unpopular decisions (with the kids anyway), reduce debt & try to live within our means!
And now, back to the economics lectures
Phantom said:
antman said:
Haha! This really is like school - classroom lectures followed by push & shove in the playground! ;D
antman said:
See, you don't get it right either.
I didn't place him in the 15th century, you have.
The 15th century are the 1400s. That's more than 500 years ago.
2014 less 500 equals 1514, ie the 16th century.
And I didn't say 500 years, I said "near 500 years", figuratively implying a few hundred.
So, you need to stick to the facts.
Make trivial points on my words,
I can equally score trivial points on your errors.
But, again, rather than focusing on the greater debate of Australian economics, you focus on playing the man and making trivial points.
I quoted this once before but it is relevant to this very entertaining game of intellectual tennis going on.This Is Anfield said:And now, back to the economics lectures
When I studied economics I was lectured by Dr Neville Norman. ( whether you agree with him or not he is undoubtedly one of the most entertaining speakers in the country on all things economics). At his first lecture in Macro economics to us 18 year old newbies he said that Economics, Philosophy and Sociology had one thing in common which is that University exams ask the same questions every year and just change the answers you have to give. ;D
Sintiger said:
Ah! Just like politicians of both parties, depending on whether they are in government or opposition! ;D
Again, hopefully away from another's trivial interjections, for those interested in theories of Economics, I recommend:
For a descriptive version of comparative advantage,
An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, Adam Smith, 1776
http://www.ifaarchive.com/pdf/smith_-_an_inquiry_into_the_nature_and_causes_of_the_wealth_of_nations[1].pdf
For a descriptive version of how modern banking systems work,
The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, John Maynard Keynes, 1936
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/k/keynes/john_maynard/k44g/
I also recommend Galbraith for an understanding of economic history and the effect of globilization on national economies.
The Age of Uncertainty, John Kenneth Galbraith, 1977
http://www.amazon.com/The-Uncertainty-John-Kenneth-Galbraith/dp/0395249007
For the mathematics behind these theories of economics,
Economics; An Introductory Analysis, Paul Anthony Samuelson, 1948
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Economics-Introductory-Analysis-Paul-Samuelson/dp/0070747415
If there is a more specific area of economics that you wish to study, post it and I can assist you with a suitable reference.
For a descriptive version of comparative advantage,
An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, Adam Smith, 1776
http://www.ifaarchive.com/pdf/smith_-_an_inquiry_into_the_nature_and_causes_of_the_wealth_of_nations[1].pdf
For a descriptive version of how modern banking systems work,
The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, John Maynard Keynes, 1936
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/k/keynes/john_maynard/k44g/
I also recommend Galbraith for an understanding of economic history and the effect of globilization on national economies.
The Age of Uncertainty, John Kenneth Galbraith, 1977
http://www.amazon.com/The-Uncertainty-John-Kenneth-Galbraith/dp/0395249007
For the mathematics behind these theories of economics,
Economics; An Introductory Analysis, Paul Anthony Samuelson, 1948
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Economics-Introductory-Analysis-Paul-Samuelson/dp/0070747415
If there is a more specific area of economics that you wish to study, post it and I can assist you with a suitable reference.
Phantom said:
We'll probably get to a time when countries 'takeover' others like companies have. We were 2% of global market and will always be 2%.
For a nation the same size as the US, we are terribly weak.
The 51st state of America is still vacant. ;D
TigerForce said:
The 23rd province of China is equally vacant, and I quite like Confucianism. (Monty Python, "I like Chinese ...")
Further, countries "taking over" others has been going on for centuries as imperialism & colonialisation, one way or another.
Modern examples of a purchase "take over" would be:
1. The Louisiana Purchase, 1803
2. The Alaska Purchase, 1867
The precedent to watch out for is when a global corporation "takes over" a sovereign state. That would be one for politicians & lawyers to argue over.
Again, the objective for Australian manufacturing is to identify comparative advantage.
Comparative advantage occurs on two levels:
1. international comparative advantage - where Australia produces an innovative or price competitive product that the world wants.
2. local comparative advantage - where it is cheaper to produce here in Australia rather than import from overseas.
In 1948, when GM or Holden opened in Australia, the theory of local comparative advantage was used. It was cheaper to manufacture here to make cars more affordable for the general population, rather than having expensive imported cars only affordable by the wealthy.
Currently, there are a number of areas where Australia still holds a local comparative advantage, especially in aerosols or processed chemicals, where the costs of and regulations for importing 'dangerous goods' are still prohibitive. In this case many international global aerosol or chemical companies choose to manufacture in Australia for local demand.
However, for international comparative advantage, as said previously government policy and objectives need to target support for where Australia produces an innovative or price competitive product that the world wants.
We do that with food products, mining and some technology too.
The question was raised earlier, do we leave this up to entrepreneurs and business leaders?
The American car industry is an example where entrepreneurs and business leaders have led a once growing industry into stagnation and redundancy.
They failed to innovate.
The lessons of the 1970's oil crises should have spurred the American industry to create cars that people wanted.
The same can be said of the Australian car industry too.
Where's the innovation?
The lack of innovation since the '80s has allowed growing players in Asia to enter the world car market.
And on the price comparatitive side of things, how many PRE'nders know that an 'unskilled' worker in Australia's car industry, through the AMWU, gets $32 per hour, plus a new car every year. Then, it goes up from there. Is that competitive?
That's not even competitive within Australia, yet alone internationally.
Currently, we are waiting to see what Toyota's HQ decision will be with the continued manufacture of the Camry.
How old, how long has the Camry been in manufacture? It began in Japan in 1982, and Australian Camry manufacture by Toyota began in 1994.
So, we are still trying to build Camry 20 years on.
Where's the innovation?
We cannot blame this on population alone.
South Korea has a population of 50 million. Although larger than Australia, it is of a similar scale when you compare America's 300 million, or India's 1.2 billion.
Yet South Korea have attained a global comparative advantage,
They have created an innovative and price competitive car in the Hyundai brand, and with much likelihood, Toyota's Australian manufacturing will be transferred to South Korea.
The Velostar is a fantastic car, especially for the price.
This is our manufacturing challenge.
Not just for the car industry, but for our manufacturing in general.
We need innovation. We need to support innovation.
Comparative advantage occurs on two levels:
1. international comparative advantage - where Australia produces an innovative or price competitive product that the world wants.
2. local comparative advantage - where it is cheaper to produce here in Australia rather than import from overseas.
In 1948, when GM or Holden opened in Australia, the theory of local comparative advantage was used. It was cheaper to manufacture here to make cars more affordable for the general population, rather than having expensive imported cars only affordable by the wealthy.
Currently, there are a number of areas where Australia still holds a local comparative advantage, especially in aerosols or processed chemicals, where the costs of and regulations for importing 'dangerous goods' are still prohibitive. In this case many international global aerosol or chemical companies choose to manufacture in Australia for local demand.
However, for international comparative advantage, as said previously government policy and objectives need to target support for where Australia produces an innovative or price competitive product that the world wants.
We do that with food products, mining and some technology too.
The question was raised earlier, do we leave this up to entrepreneurs and business leaders?
The American car industry is an example where entrepreneurs and business leaders have led a once growing industry into stagnation and redundancy.
They failed to innovate.
The lessons of the 1970's oil crises should have spurred the American industry to create cars that people wanted.
The same can be said of the Australian car industry too.
Where's the innovation?
The lack of innovation since the '80s has allowed growing players in Asia to enter the world car market.
And on the price comparatitive side of things, how many PRE'nders know that an 'unskilled' worker in Australia's car industry, through the AMWU, gets $32 per hour, plus a new car every year. Then, it goes up from there. Is that competitive?
That's not even competitive within Australia, yet alone internationally.
Currently, we are waiting to see what Toyota's HQ decision will be with the continued manufacture of the Camry.
How old, how long has the Camry been in manufacture? It began in Japan in 1982, and Australian Camry manufacture by Toyota began in 1994.
So, we are still trying to build Camry 20 years on.
Where's the innovation?
We cannot blame this on population alone.
South Korea has a population of 50 million. Although larger than Australia, it is of a similar scale when you compare America's 300 million, or India's 1.2 billion.
Yet South Korea have attained a global comparative advantage,
They have created an innovative and price competitive car in the Hyundai brand, and with much likelihood, Toyota's Australian manufacturing will be transferred to South Korea.
The Velostar is a fantastic car, especially for the price.
This is our manufacturing challenge.
Not just for the car industry, but for our manufacturing in general.
We need innovation. We need to support innovation.
Good post Phanto. We just have Vegemite to export...
Owning a 1991 Camry as my first car, I'd say it was the hybrid of the Camira from the mid-80s although I could be wrong. It's being around as long as that boring Commodore has.
Owning a 1991 Camry as my first car, I'd say it was the hybrid of the Camira from the mid-80s although I could be wrong. It's being around as long as that boring Commodore has.
Actually, I should have mentioned an excellent example of Australian innovation that I was able to observe on my recent trip to Port Lincoln in South Australia, located at the bottom of the Eyre Peninsula.
Croatian and Italian families such as the Lukin and Santic families immigrated to Australia decades ago and have been trawling tuna and other commercial fish in the Southern Ocean.
Of course, they are now Australian and have built up a brilliant export industry.
The Lukins are the same family from which we find Dean Lukin the weight lifter.
The Santics owned Makybe Diva.
In the 1990s, the fisheries were being 'fished out' and fish harvests were declining dramatically.
Working closely with Australian primary and fishery departments, the Lukins and Santics, with others, began to build tuna, kingfish and other fish farms to replenish and build their supply, not just deplete it.
Further, they are trying to promote kingfish as an excellent alternative, and it tastes lovely.
I saw the same at Coffin Bay, where they were doing the same with oyster farming.
95% of the product of their fish farms is exported to the major fresh fish market in Tokyo, which I had the pleasure of visiting a couple of years ago.
And, if I remember correctly, Australia supplies 15% of the world's commercial tuna.
So, this is a great example of Australian ingenuity - entrepreneurial skill with the support of government.
Croatian and Italian families such as the Lukin and Santic families immigrated to Australia decades ago and have been trawling tuna and other commercial fish in the Southern Ocean.
Of course, they are now Australian and have built up a brilliant export industry.
The Lukins are the same family from which we find Dean Lukin the weight lifter.
The Santics owned Makybe Diva.
In the 1990s, the fisheries were being 'fished out' and fish harvests were declining dramatically.
Working closely with Australian primary and fishery departments, the Lukins and Santics, with others, began to build tuna, kingfish and other fish farms to replenish and build their supply, not just deplete it.
Further, they are trying to promote kingfish as an excellent alternative, and it tastes lovely.
I saw the same at Coffin Bay, where they were doing the same with oyster farming.
95% of the product of their fish farms is exported to the major fresh fish market in Tokyo, which I had the pleasure of visiting a couple of years ago.
And, if I remember correctly, Australia supplies 15% of the world's commercial tuna.
So, this is a great example of Australian ingenuity - entrepreneurial skill with the support of government.
Phantom said:
Five hundred figuratively implies a "few hundred"? There's that precision with numbers again. But yeah, let's do the maths. He wrote it in the 18th century, you were 300 years out, you put him in the 15th dude. Fail.
Here's a challenge then Mr Monash Economics Degree - try explaining your Australian government/Honda research collaboration in terms of the comparative advantage of nations theory of Adam Smith.
I don't know if he was a member of the union Phanto but I knew a bloke who worked on the assembly line at Broady, never had a new car in all the years I knew him.
