Changes verses the Swannies - Easter Round

[dimmauchamp]

Yze got the job as he is a Livingston yes man promised he wouldn't change a thing

Where mini wanted to 360 the joint

Not sure how true this is but would love to know just how much influence Livingston has on the overall. Is he pulling too many strings in the background. Seems to be the more things are changing the more they stay the same thus far.

 

[MalenyTiger]

Agree with this re cumbo not being selected
The one that does my head in is Banks ahead of Clarke. All I can think is that they want to give Clarke a full game so that's VFL. Banks has shown nothing this season so I can't understand his selection

 

[Sintiger]

Was thinking the same about you what game were you watching. Then again when you start by saying he copped a dodgy free or he had X amount of disposals shows that you're quite simply trying to downplay his game. Luckily, many posters on BF and PRE had him in their best 5, so it's not just me it's many. He's kicked a few goals, dished off a few, and defensively very sound what else do you want from a half-forward?

Junior had 4 disposals against Carlton. Banks 5 against Port and subbed. Lefau had 5 V Port and didn't trouble the scoreboard. Your reasoning that he should be doing more doesn't make sense when others are doing less. We need goal-kicking small-med forwards and Cumbo fits the bill. Hard at it. Strong one-on-one, quick and kicks goals.

These were the 5 best tigers V GC In this order;

McAuliffe
Naismith
Sonsie
Raphsmith
Cumberland

I’m not downplaying his game at all, that’s just a silly statement.
I am a big Cumbo fan and there are plenty of posts by me over recent years to back that up.
I don’t know why you keep on quoting stats about others because I am talking about Cumberland and why he isn’t being picked.
The best thing we can do for him now is to let him build form, have a game or two where he plays well in the vfl and then pick him when his confidence is up.
That’s my opinion and if you don’t agree then fair enough but don’t make silly statements about the basis of my posts.

 

[AstuteTiger]

I’m not downplaying his game at all, that’s just a silly statement.
I am a big Cumbo fan and there are plenty of posts by me over recent years to back that up.
I don’t know why you keep on quoting stats about others because I am talking about Cumberland and why he isn’t being picked.
The best thing we can do for him now is to let him build form, have a game or two where he plays well in the vfl and then pick him when his confidence is up.
That’s my opinion and if you don’t agree then fair enough but don’t make silly statements about the basis of my posts.

Lol im comparing stats because players are getting free rides for senior selection so why isn't Cumbo not hard to ascertain that point of view.
I don't agree with your posts that's not being silly if I am pointing out facts that are for what Cumbo has put out in his games and what others have put out but still find themselves getting selected. Anyway, going around circles. Guess he has to bide his time the rules and expectations are higher for Cumbo and you can't tell me otherwise.

 

[AstuteTiger]

My view on Cumbo is that I like him and he COULD be very good, BUT the way the game is played right now is based around team defence. We didn't get it done in the 1's last week either, so should have been a big focus in training this week so lets see how team defence goes on Sunday, but this has been a recurrent theme with Cumbo, is defensive intent. Team defence is valued much higher than anything, whats the point in kicking 2 goals, if your lack of defensive focus, allows players to attack into space the other day and could lead to opportunities to the opposition far bigger than the 2 goals kicked.

I think thats what the coaches have seen (and multiple coaches) rather than some innane conspiracy theory that Livingstone doesn't like him and won't allow him to be played.

Noah has great talent with the ball, though needs to make sure he doesn't drop his head like he has in previous years after a mistake, AFL is a mistakes business, you need to learn to let the mistake go and move onto the next contest which is something he has struggled with in the past.

Now if our team defence continues as poorly as it was at times last week, then we need to continue to rotate those that won't do the team defence thing. People say why are we prioritising Mansell etc over Cumbo and its down to team defence, similar to Maurice. Now I don't really get the Maurice love from the coaches as much, obviously team defence from him is pretty good, but he just has no idea of where to be going the other way, so for me, 1 doesn't outweigh the other, likewise for Cumbo, 1 doesn't outweigh the other. I'd personally have neither of them in the team right now, but for me Cumbo should be ahead of Maurice, so this selection does bemuse me.

You make some valid points Posh. Did you see our team's defence against GC and Port it was atrocious.
We love Dusty and Bolton but they don't really defend, they do their thing. We need goal-kickers and we know that Cumbo scores goals. Ive seen him in most games this year and he is running, harassing putting on pressure plus kicking goals. That's what the MC wants from him more defensively minded he's doing it guess they want to see more but did Lefau do that in his first game, yes it's his first but he's 26 and should not have been given a game based on his ressies form. Same can be said for Banks and Dow.

Pickett 8 pressure acts, 1 tackle and Macintosh 6 pressure acts and 1 tackle, both DE% were low. Sure they mind patch run and up and down the wings but is that helping, both were terrible.

I hope that everyone selected does well tomorrow as I don't want to see a shellacking i am more so glass full on game day always hoping for a win.

 

[mrposhman]

You make some valid points Posh. Did you see our team's defence against GC and Port it was atrocious.
We love Dusty and Bolton but they don't really defend, they do their thing. We need goal-kickers and we know that Cumbo scores goals. Ive seen him in most games this year and he is running, harassing putting on pressure plus kicking goals. That's what the MC wants from him more defensively minded he's doing it guess they want to see more but did Lefau do that in his first game, yes it's his first but he's 26 and should not have been given a game based on his ressies form.

Pickett 8 pressure acts, 1 tackle and Macintosh 6 pressure acts and 1 tackle, both DE% were low. Sure they mind patch run and up and down the wings but is that helping, both were terrible.

I hope that everyone selected does well tomorrow as I don't want to see a shellacking i am more so glass full on game day always hoping for a win.

I agree, our team defence more often than not this year has been below standard (and it was last week). I think Cumbo has been pushed to increase his team defence party due to what you mentioned on Bolton and Martin. Those 2 don't defend hard, so can we really add a 3rd? I think the answer is clearly no, we lose far too much on team defence, so he has been challenged to up that side of his game, and clearly you wouldn't leave out either Bolton or Martin for Cumbo.

I'm expecting a much better team defence impact tomorrow than we had last week, partly MRJ for Martin will increase the defensive side, but its getting that balance right between defence and offence and at the moment, MRJ doesn't impact enough offensively. I personally wouldn't have had him in, but then I wouldn't have selected Dow either. Yze is clearly giving the youngsters a run of more than 1 or 2 games to show what they can do. Its possible IMO that Dow also plays next week and plays a block of 5 games, if he still has the level of performance after 5 games, then its probably well and truly over for him.

 

[mrposhman]

Agree with this re cumbo not being selected
The one that does my head in is Banks ahead of Clarke. All I can think is that they want to give Clarke a full game so that's VFL. Banks has shown nothing this season so I can't understand his selection

Clarke hasn't been selected in the VFL either, so not sure what the issue is there, maybe picked up an injury later in the week?

 

[Flea74]

this thread has become the Cumberland thread. it reads like a heap of Noah's friends and family have opened accounts on Punt Road End.

 

[AstuteTiger]

this thread has become the Cumberland thread. it reads like a heap of Noah's friends and family have opened accounts on Punt Road End.

Not at all flea. Most of us have been on PRE for 15-20 years and we see the injustice Cumberland has faced compared to others that's been our main gripe.
Team selection should be based on reserves performance and it quite clearly hasn't for some.

I'll leave it at that, MC want more from Cumbo so be it but i hope if he has more good games he is given that chance that others are getting without needing to perform at the lower level.

 

[Flea74]

Not at all flea. Most of us have been on PRE for 15-20 years and we see the injustice Cumberland has faced compared to others that's been our main gripe.
Team selection should be based on reserves performance and it quite clearly hasn't for some.

I'll leave it at that, MC want more from Cumbo so be it but i hope if he has more good games he is given that chance that others are getting without needing to perform at the lower level.

OK. but this is the thread for the game vs. the Swans. Noah has not been picked and is not an emergency. I'd prefer to read about the Tigers squad chosen or match-ups vs. the Swans. And then if i choose to i can read about the injustice of Noah not being selected on the Noah Cumberland thread.

 

[btoz_01]

The only thing that is happening with Cumbo right now is that he isn’t playing well enough in the 2s to get a game.

He has very ordinary form in the vfl practice matches, seemed to be lacking confidence or touch, or both. In the vfl match last week he had 11 touches and 2 goals, hardly screaming out to be picked.

I like Cumbo but he needs a one or two good games in the vfl before he gets picked imo.

Cumbo not playing well enough in the VFL
Meanwhile Banks MJ Dow have stinkers and they still get picked week after week

 

[btoz_01]

My view on Cumbo is that I like him and he COULD be very good, BUT the way the game is played right now is based around team defence. We didn't get it done in the 1's last week either, so should have been a big focus in training this week so lets see how team defence goes on Sunday, but this has been a recurrent theme with Cumbo, is defensive intent. Team defence is valued much higher than anything, whats the point in kicking 2 goals, if your lack of defensive focus, allows players to attack into space the other day and could lead to opportunities to the opposition far bigger than the 2 goals kicked.

I think thats what the coaches have seen (and multiple coaches) rather than some innane conspiracy theory that Livingstone doesn't like him and won't allow him to be played.

Noah has great talent with the ball, though needs to make sure he doesn't drop his head like he has in previous years after a mistake, AFL is a mistakes business, you need to learn to let the mistake go and move onto the next contest which is something he has struggled with in the past.

Now if our team defence continues as poorly as it was at times last week, then we need to continue to rotate those that won't do the team defence thing. People say why are we prioritising Mansell etc over Cumbo and its down to team defence, similar to Maurice. Now I don't really get the Maurice love from the coaches as much, obviously team defence from him is pretty good, but he just has no idea of where to be going the other way, so for me, 1 doesn't outweigh the other, likewise for Cumbo, 1 doesn't outweigh the other. I'd personally have neither of them in the team right now, but for me Cumbo should be ahead of Maurice, so this selection does bemuse me.

We’re last for team defence but hey let’s keep selecting the same players and hope it magically changes some time soon

 

[Sintiger]

Cumbo not playing well enough in the VFL
Meanwhile Banks MJ Dow have stinkers and they still get picked week after week

Already addressed that as has Tiger Machosist in his post

Lol im comparing stats because players are getting free rides for senior selection so why isn't Cumbo not hard to ascertain that point of view.
I don't agree with your posts that's not being silly if I am pointing out facts that are for what Cumbo has put out in his games and what others have put out but still find themselves getting selected. Anyway, going around circles. Guess he has to bide his time the rules and expectations are higher for Cumbo and you can't tell me otherwise.

No what is silly is suggesting I am downplaying his last vfl game. Just calling it as i saw it, was average at best and looks out of touch but getting better. Cumberland is a confidence player, much of it is in his head. Bring him in when he has some good form behind him.

See above re the rest. I (and a few others) have already expressed a view on why other players are getting an extended run

 

[Rantnrave]

He wouldn't come close to getting a game in either of those two teams

YEah right...woulda said the same about
Markov and Stengle ....and now they both have premiership medalions

 

[Rantnrave]

Tea

My view on Cumbo is that I like him and he COULD be very good, BUT the way the game is played right now is based around team defence. We didn't get it done in the 1's last week either, so should have been a big focus in training this week so lets see how team defence goes on Sunday, but this has been a recurrent theme with Cumbo, is defensive intent. Team defence is valued much higher than anything, whats the point in kicking 2 goals, if your lack of defensive focus, allows players to attack into space the other day and could lead to opportunities to the opposition far bigger than the 2 goals kicked.

I think thats what the coaches have seen (and multiple coaches) rather than some innane conspiracy theory that Livingstone doesn't like him and won't allow him to be played.

Noah has great talent with the ball, though needs to make sure he doesn't drop his head like he has in previous years after a mistake, AFL is a mistakes business, you need to learn to let the mistake go and move onto the next contest which is something he has struggled with in the past.

Now if our team defence continues as poorly as it was at times last week, then we need to continue to rotate those that won't do the team defence thing. People say why are we prioritising Mansell etc over Cumbo and its down to team defence, similar to Maurice. Now I don't really get the Maurice love from the coaches as much, obviously team defence from him is pretty good, but he just has no idea of where to be going the other way, so for me, 1 doesn't outweigh the other, likewise for Cumbo, 1 doesn't outweigh the other. I'd personally have neither of them in the team right now, but for me Cumbo should be ahead of Maurice, so this selection does bemuse me.

WHat team defense ?
Our defensive efforts have been piidly weak right across the foward line and our plodding midfeild for 3 years now.
No way is cumbo,s defensive efforts any less than so many others .At least he kicks goals

 

[Bourke30JC33]

So many times last week, they kicked the ball out of defence down the line, straight to the Port tall interceptor.
Have to kick it shorter, and kick across as well, also handpass to a teammate running laterally.

 

[AstuteTiger]

So many times last week, they kicked the ball out of defence down the line, straight to the Port tall interceptor.
Have to kick it shorter, and kick across as well, also handpass to a teammate running laterally.

This is what I have been saying. The game plan looks the same as the last few years. Kicking down the line is just playing in the hand of the opposition because they just outnumber us at the contest and the ball comes straight back with interest.

Also, not switching the play to the fat side, And where are the handball chains?

I know it is early days but was expecting some noticeable difference to the game plan.

 

[bringbakflemmo]

A change in game plan necessitates that players have the skills to carry it out.
Some of our boys struggle to kick to a teammate at the moment.

 

[tigerdell]

This is what I have been saying. The game plan looks the same as the last few years. Kicking down the line is just playing in the hand of the opposition because they just outnumber us at the contest and the ball comes straight back with interest.

Also, not switching the play to the fat side, And where are the handball chains?

I know it is early days but was expecting some noticeable difference to the game plan.

Maybe that's good team defence from the opposition?
You know all players switched on and in their position in the zone to stop the handball chain/fatside switch/short chipkicks.

Maybe we dont see it but the zone is crucial to stop opposition ball movement.
JUst a thought

 

[AstuteTiger]

A change in game plan necessitates that players have the skills to carry it out.
Some of our boys struggle to kick to a teammate at the moment.

They spent all preseason working on skills, Yze would blow the whistle and stop play due to an errant kick or handball. Seems all that training and the skills are just as bad as last year. Players like Clarke, Sonsie, Cumberland, McAuliffe, Brown, Smith, and Campbell to name a few are good ball users. Once the team is transformed in the coming years we'll likely see a change in the skillset and decision-making side of things.