Coronavirus | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Coronavirus

0 Laos 7.3m
21 Togo 8.3m
22 New Zealand 5m
27 Singapore 5.9m
29 Slovakia 5.5m
44 Hong Kong 7.5m
58 Congo 5.5m
59 Central African Republic 4.8m
61 Paraguay 7.1m
67 Sierra Leone 8m
68 Lebanon 6.8m
78 Liberia 5.1m
170 Victoria 6.3m

Mmmm, cherries.

You'll see I'd already included Singapore.

I think age of population is one of the most important dynamics for the virus to take hold, as we know this affects those over the age of 60 far more than those under.

Whats the average age and % of population older than say 70 in the countries that you have cherry picked?
 
You'll see I'd already included Singapore.

I think age of population is one of the most important dynamics for the virus to take hold, as we know this affects those over the age of 60 far more than those under.

Whats the average age and % of population older than say 70 in the countries that you have cherry picked?

So most of those countries have populations over 65 of less than 5% (Australia is 16%).

So to give a review I used this website https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.65UP.TO.ZS?most_recent_value_desc=true&locations=AU

The worldbank should be pretty accurate so I included the countries either side of Australia, ie. Australia are 16% of population older than 65 and I took all those between 15-17%.

There are 2 clear standouts on this list. New Zealand have done terrifically well (and we've know that for months) and on the other scale is "the leader the world needs".

Victoria are tracking similarly to nations that have similar age profiles as we do, better than many.

1596709191699.png
 
Unless making a joke, I don't post anything that has no basis in fact.

Aged care home had request to transfer virus cases to hospital denied

Other reports concerned aged care homes in Fawkner, Epping and elsewhere.
I was referring to your outrageous and incorrect statement about people being denied access to ICU.
Treatment of aged care patients who have COVID and are not in immediate danger has been consistently done in the aged care facilities since this pandemic has started in every state in Australia. Patients will only be sent to hospital if their condition warranted it and if the hospital denied admission it would be because the doctors would have made the assessment that they didn’t need admission. That is the only way admission is denied in any public hospital in Australia.
 
Patients will only be sent to hospital if their condition warranted it and if the hospital denied admission it would be because the doctors would have made the assessment that they didn’t need admission. That is the only way admission is denied in any public hospital in Australia.

The accusation was that they were denied because Andrews hadn't yet cancelled elective surgery despite federal government urging.

ICU numbers this week were 38, 35, 38, 42, 42 while deaths were 7, 13, 11, 15, 8. That's 54 deaths in five days so unless there has been a 100% turnover in ICU, some people are dying outside it. I'm just asking why.
 
The accusation was that they were denied because Andrews hadn't yet cancelled elective surgery despite federal government urging.

ICU numbers this week were 38, 35, 38, 42, 42 while deaths were 7, 13, 11, 15, 8. That's 54 deaths in five days so unless there has been a 100% turnover in ICU, some people are dying outside it. I'm just asking why.
Elective surgery was reduced to what they call category 1 and high risk category 2 surgery In public hospitals a few weeks ago. That was done in all public hospitals and to say otherwise is simply wrong.
The reduction of elective surgery doesn’t really effect ICU that much anyway because the sickest and most urgent patients are still having surgery and they are the ones who end up in ICU. You don’t go to ICU for cataract or a hip replacement.
Not every COVID patient will have died in ICU. Some old patients may have just been in palliative care in a ward for COVID patients for instance. Some may have only spent a day in ICU if they don’t need a ventilator. Your analysis assumes that every patient died in an ICU and every COVID patient spends days in ICU , both of which is wrong
I have been around this sector and worked in public hospitals and there is zero chance a patient would be denied access to an ICU when recommended by a specialist when there is capacity and at the moment there is heaps of capacity plus there is much more that can be turned on if necessary.
 
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Basket case.

kAwpLHJ.jpg


https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...59007e7b700a3fd18f360b783cd92?keyevent=8.25am (paywalled)
By March 13 the USA had about 2000 cases, by Mar 20, they had over 17000 cases, and increase of 750% in 7 days. (compared to about 40 days for Vic.)

Sometimes the OZ is ok, other times it is as bad as the Hun. this graph is Hun like.
 
By March 13 the USA had about 2000 cases, by Mar 20, they had over 17000 cases, and increase of 750% in 7 days. (compared to about 40 days for Vic.)

Sometimes the OZ is ok, other times it is as bad as the Hun. this graph is Hun like.
Things are not great in Victoria for sure, there is no denying it. However what I find amazing is that the worst days that we have had (700+) is still less In per capita terms that what the whole of the USA is getting every day. (55,000 yesterday)
We are locked down and they aren’t.
I really fear for the US, they could end up with 250,000 people dead or even more
 
By March 13 the USA had about 2000 cases, by Mar 20, they had over 17000 cases, and increase of 750% in 7 days. (compared to about 40 days for Vic.)

Sometimes the OZ is ok, other times it is as bad as the Hun. this graph is Hun like.
The Oz is worse. People who think they're smart read it.
 
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Not to be outdone, The Murdochian is at it again, simply making it up:

Victorian officials dismiss claim of 'secret modelling' showing daily Covid cases of 1,100 next week
Deputy chief health officer Allen Cheng says he’s seen no data that matches the figures splashed on the front page of the Australian

Victoria’s deputy chief health officer has dismissed claims the state has “secret modelling” that shows daily Covid-19 cases rising to 1,100 by the end of next week, saying he has seen no such data from state or federal authorities.

The claim was splashed on the front page of the Australian on Thursday in a story that said the Victorian government’s “own estimates” showed the number was likely to stay above 1,000 for eight days, and “the average number of new cases is not expected to decline until the last week of August”.

The deputy chief health officer, Prof Allen Cheng, who is also a leading epidemiologist, said there was no such government modelling. “I first went to check our internal modelling,” Cheng said. “I also checked with the commonwealth, with Brendan Murphy’s team. We can’t find anything that looks like that.”

Cheng said modelling suggested that stage three and four restrictions in place throughout the state should lead to a decrease in cases in about seven to 10 days. At the end of the lockdown period of six weeks, Cheng said he expected the daily case number would be “substantially less than what it is now”.

It remained unclear where the modelling published by the Australian came from. On Twitter, a user called Paul Sougleris drew attention to similarities with his data. Sougleris is not an epidemiologist, but describes himself as a spatial metadata specialist on his website, which contains models of Covid-19. A section of the website called “stage four modelling” shows the same shape graph with the same data as the one used by the Australian.

Asked if he had a background in modelling or epidemiology, and if he could provide the assumptions or method for the model, Sougleris told Guardian Australia: “I’m just a concerned citizen that felt I needed to graph the numbers that were publicly available. When I saw my graphs, I could see patterns that concerned me so I posted them on Twitter.”

Sougleris said earlier on Twitter: “Apparently I’m the government data modeller.”

“So, like ... who do I invoice?,” he wrote.

Epidemiologists and modelling experts told Guardian Australia the model used by the Australian lacked context. Models that predict case numbers make assumptions about the health system or the behaviour of a population. But even small changes to these elements could drastically change the projections in the model. So governments are more likely to have dozens of different graphs and models to predict infection, bed capacity and deaths, rather than just one.

Ian Marschner, a professor of biostatistics at the University of Sydney, said the model used in the Australian failed to outline what assumptions had been made, or why.

Marschner, who has more than 30 years of experience in biostatistics, clinical epidemiology and public health, said it was likely the model used by the Australian was “extremely pessimistic in its assumptions”.

“It is basically what would happen if stage three and stage four don’t work at all,” he said. “The problem with that is I don’t think anyone thinks there will be no effect from lockdown measures. This is what may happen with no interventions or with interventions just not working at all, which isn’t plausible.”

Associate Prof Michael Brown, from Monash University’s school of physics and astronomy, has expertise in statistical models and said the model immediately raised a number of red flags.

“It has a weird symmetry to it, where the cases fall at the same rate they rise,” he said. “There is no reason for that to happen, and it’s not motivated by science. This modelling doesn’t account for or show how the virus propagates, or how it spreads, or how it spreads given various restrictions.”

He said he was concerned the model could make it to the front page of a newspaper at a time when Victorians were anxious about the virus. “This is a serious crisis,” Brown said. “To put a poorly explained model on the front page of a paper at this time is irresponsible.”

The reporter who wrote The Australian article, Dennis Shanahan, denied Sougleris was his source.

He told Guardian Australia: “Without disclosing any sources I co-operated fully with the Premier’s office in several phone calls this morning.

“I also pointed out to them, as I do to you now, that the graphic image on the front of The Australian was not a reproduction,” he said. “I am aware of all sorts of debates about statistics and have been in contact with some academics today who have views on the Victorian coronavirus case figures. There is debate about the ‘roller coaster’, the three-day peaks, time lags and the effect delays in reporting are having.”

Prof Sally Cripps, a University of Sydney statistician, said: “A good way of determining whether a model is effective or not, is to ask whether it provides the raw data, a description of the mathematical model – including the uncertainty estimates, and a code to run it.”

Prof Tony Blakely, the head of the centre for epidemiology and biostatistics at the University of Melbourne’s school of population and global health, said modelling was already showing that interventions such as masks and stage three lockdowns had resulted in a reduction of cases. Writing in the university’s publication, Pursuit, he said: “A close inspection of the graph in the Australian shows an increasing trend in numbers over the last week that is inconsistent with the (admittedly rollercoaster-like nature) of Victoria’s actual number.

“I would tentatively suggest we’ll probably see another bend in the curve, downwards, 10 days or so after Victoria began its Stage 4 restrictions today.”

Cheng said the daily numbers would already have looked very different if Victoria had not implemented restrictions.

On 25 June the state hit 20 cases and 16 days later, on 11 July, the state had 200 cases. “So what that would imply, if we had continued with that same growth rate, 16 days after that, which would have been 27 July, we would have hit 2,000 cases. And by next week, 12 August, we would have had 20,000 cases,” he said. “Clearly we are not even at 2,000 cases, but certainly the numbers at the moment are certainly too high. We need to get that down.”

Article is here: https://www.theguardian.com/austral...g-showing-daily-covid-cases-of-1100-next-week (not paywalled)

Seriously, The Australian is the Pravda of the right. They just make it up to suit. No credibility at all.

DS
 
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Seriously, The Australian is the Pravda of the right. They just make it up to suit. No credibility at all

Dan being such an honest bloke and all, there’s no chance his government would have two model sets, one containing the real forecasts and one to feed the chooks with.

There is no way Dan would do a Brian Waldron. No way. Just because he declined to release the modelling when asked yesterday doesn’t mean he’s got something to hide. Dan is more honest than Jesus.
 
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Dan being such an honest bloke and all, there’s no chance his government would have two model sets, one containing the real forecasts and one to feed the chooks with.

There is no way Dan would do a Brian Waldron. No way. Just because he declined to release the modelling when asked yesterday doesn’t mean he’s got something to hide. Dan is more honest than Jesus.
I understand that the reason why Governments don't want to release modelling (which is most Governments around the world btw not just Victoria) is because they are forecasts usually of worst case scenarios used to plan capacity and potential response and it is felt they would mainly just alarm the public. Plus there would be so many opinions around on it noone would know what was the truth. I'm not saying that is right or wrong but that's a decision not just made by Dan but by many Governments around the world.

In the first spike the modelling showed some horror stories which is why the Public hospitals scaled up ICUs. I heard some of the numbers later and remember thinking possibly it would have been better for people to understand the disaster we dodged at that time. Maybe it would have been but Dan is certainly not alone in making that decision. You may have noticed that Alan Cheng, who is acting for Brett Sutton at the moment, said yesterday we dodged up to 20,000 cases a day with stage 3 lockdown. To be honest I am not sure saying that is a good idea or a bad idea.
 
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Dan being such an honest bloke and all, there’s no chance his government would have two model sets, one containing the real forecasts and one to feed the chooks with.

There is no way Dan would do a Brian Waldron. No way. Just because he declined to release the modelling when asked yesterday doesn’t mean he’s got something to hide. Dan is more honest than Jesus.

You really are a strange one when you bag out Andrews at every opportunity but still seem to support Trump as "the leader we all need".

You realise that if we'd be doing as well as the US, we would have over 100k cases and over 3000 deaths in Victoria.

Shame on Dan though for getting it to 13.5k and 170 deaths.
 
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Pretty typical behaviour of the Federal Gov when questioned. Dodge weave, deflect or flat out refuse to answer.
Barely been a whisper from the Murdoch press on this stuff up.
 
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Elective surgery was reduced to what they call category 1 and high risk category 2 surgery In public hospitals a few weeks ago. That was done in all public hospitals and to say otherwise is simply wrong.
The reduction of elective surgery doesn’t really effect ICU that much anyway because the sickest and most urgent patients are still having surgery and they are the ones who end up in ICU. You don’t go to ICU for cataract or a hip replacement.
Not every COVID patient will have died in ICU. Some old patients may have just been in palliative care in a ward for COVID patients for instance. Some may have only spent a day in ICU if they don’t need a ventilator. Your analysis assumes that every patient died in an ICU and every COVID patient spends days in ICU , both of which is wrong
I have been around this sector and worked in public hospitals and there is zero chance a patient would be denied access to an ICU when recommended by a specialist when there is capacity and at the moment there is heaps of capacity plus there is much more that can be turned on if necessary.

good to get info from someone who knows what is actually happening on the ground. Much appreciated SinT.
 
You really are a strange one when you bag out Andrews at every opportunity but still seem to support Trump as "the leader we all need".

You realise that if we'd be doing as well as the US, we would have over 100k cases and over 3000 deaths in Victoria.

Shame on Dan though for getting it to 13.5k and 170 deaths.

Haven't mentioned Trump in ages. He is cooked as a result of his inability to handle the virus. As Andrews must be.
 

Pretty typical behaviour of the Federal Gov when questioned. Dodge weave, deflect or flat out refuse to answer.
Barely been a whisper from the Murdoch press on this stuff up.

He answered the question by stating that Border Force doesn't have authority to grant clearance to enter the country on health grounds.

Not sure that website is an objective source of news.
 
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Pretty typical behaviour of the Federal Gov when questioned. Dodge weave, deflect or flat out refuse to answer.
Barely been a whisper from the Murdoch press on this stuff up.
I get the feeling you’re trying to distract from Sargeant Schulz doing the same thing you’ve accused Dutton of.
 
good to get info from someone who knows what is actually happening on the ground. Much appreciated SinT.
There are some things I can say and some I can't Antman

There have been lots of mistakes made but the performance of our public hospitals has been unbelievably good imo, which doesn't mean they are perfect of course. People working in them are getting involved with so many things outside the norm because of Hotel quarantine and aged care. We are going to burn a lot of people out
 
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