Drug Discussion (Split from Stokes Thread)

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

I am also saying that some substances are currently classified as dangerous and illegal not because there is good science to back this up but becuase puritanical old farts once declared them so and we haven't moved on.

Ah yeah, turn on, tune in, drop out. A lot of ridiculous beliefs survive to this day concerning the reasons LSD was banned. It was banned because it has no accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse, and there are no clinical trials demonstrating it is safe to use under medical supervision (despite it being around for nearly 30 years before the ban). The term "acid casualty" exists for a reason - ask a doctor who was around back in the day about the numbers of people who wound up in psych wards and never made it back to the real world.

 

[Baloo]

Split the debate into natural (dope, hash, mushrooms) vs chemical / man made drugs and it might be different I think.

Ice/meth bad
Dope/mushes good

 

[Rfc4Ever]

It would be a good idea. Drugs would be safer and cheaper, less people would die, less people would go to jail, more people would get medical help, there would be less violence and usage rates would not increase,

Less violence? Drugs safer?

How will the organised criminals make their money? More stand over tactics involving threats/violence/intimidation.

Drugs will continue to get manufactured by those capable at high purities to better satisfy those with addictions or rhose lookimg for better highs.

Usage rates wouldnt increase with cheaper drugs? Wow.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

http://www.iflscience.com/brain/what-magic-mushrooms-do-to-your-body-and-brain/all/

 

[Rosy]

It would be a good idea. Drugs would be safer and cheaper, less people would die, less people would go to jail, more people would get medical help, there would be less violence and usage rates would not increase,

Does anyone else agree legalising drugs would be a good idea for indigenous communities? Antman? Knighters?

I can't see any logic in Lamb's comments when massive problems already exist with legal substances. Just baseless assumptions.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Does anyone else agree legalising drugs would be a good idea for indigenous communities? Antman? Knighters?

I can't see any logic in Lamb's comments when massive problems already exist with legal substances. Just baseless assumptions.

I 'm not a fan of treating our indigenous like children. And anyway, I'm talking about scientific and medical testing followed by regulation. Why would that make It a problem for indigenous?

 

[Willo]

I wonder how those people promoting legalising drugs would feel if their children became addicts.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

I wonder how those people promoting legalising drugs would feel if their children became addicts.

There are lots of addictions. Many of them destroy lives without any chemical help. Gambling, risk seeking. We regulate them but choose to define "adults" in a certain way and allow them the freedom to *smile* up and either learn their lesson, or not.

For the umpteenth time, I am not advocaing making all "street drugs" legal. But most of the research tends towards weed not being justified in its extreme category and higher than drugs that are known to be much much more dangerous. I am only suggesting we have adult conversations without the emotive appeals to "addiction" and "druggies" as though these are well established concepts. Let's do the medical science, and if, as most of the research so far suggests, marjiuana as at least as "safe" as alcohol lets treat it that way. Let's regulate it and create a revenue stream through tax. And let's see if any other substances can be tested and classified scientifically while we're at it.

Addiction is complex and rarely just the result of the actual chemical in the drug being taken. Would I want my kid addicted to anything? No. But how is that an intelligent question? It's just more emotive language that treats drugs like they are magical addiction-making machines. The blood-brain barrier is called that for a reason and is very hard to cross. Research labs spend decades trying to find ways to defeat it. Drugs aren't "magic". One try and you're hooked is pretty much a myth.

 

[Giardiasis]

I 'm not a fan of treating our indigenous like children.

Seems a little ironic when you refer to them as our indigenous.

 

[Giardiasis]

How will the organised criminals make their money? More stand over tactics involving threats/violence/intimidation.

Those tactics currently work very effectively because you can't use the legal system to uphold contracts to buy/sell drugs. Organised criminals make the most money when the state makes immoral laws to regulate the lives of everyday people.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Seems a little ironic when you refer to them as our indigenous.

Way to get to the nub of the issue there Gia.

 

[Giardiasis]

Way to get to the nub of the issue there Gia.

Well a lot of people here want to tell other people what to do with their bodies (including you as you don't seem to advocate for all drugs to be legal). Why would they do this if they didn't respect an individual's self-ownership of their own body? Perhaps they think they own part of other people's bodies, which gives them the right to commit violence against them if they don't follow obligations forced upon them?

Using language such as "our indigenous" highlights this point. It suggests that you own them.

 

[lamb22]

I wonder how those people promoting legalising drugs would feel if their children became addicts.

I wonder how those people promoting that drug users should be thrown in jail (or indeed killed in large parts of Asia) would feel if their children became addicts.

 

[Rfc4Ever]

Those tactics currently work very effectively because you can't use the legal system to uphold contracts to buy/sell drugs. Organised criminals make the most money when the state makes immoral laws to regulate the lives of everyday people.

So, are you saying that drugs being illegal is immoral?

 

[Giardiasis]

So, are you saying that drugs being illegal is immoral?

Yes.

 

[Willo]

I wonder how those people promoting that drug users should be thrown in jail (or indeed killed in large parts of Asia) would feel if their children became addicts.

Well you quoted me but didn't bother to answer, but asked another question, which I'll answer.
No doubt most would change their stance. Not all, but some.

So how about you.

I wonder how those people promoting legalising drugs would feel if their children became addicts.

 

[Rosy]

I wonder how those people promoting that drug users should be thrown in jail (or indeed killed in large parts of Asia) would feel if their children became addicts.

Has anyone here promoted that? I don't recall one single instance of it. People have certainly suggested legalising all drugs.

 

[glantone]

It would be a good idea. Drugs would be safer and cheaper, less people would die, less people would go to jail, more people would get medical help, there would be less violence and usage rates would not increase,

The armchair impression I’ve developed about many indigenous communities is socioeconomic deprivation, feelings of dispossession and exclusion and hurt are the main factors behind indigenous substance abuse. This kind of fits in perfectly with the Huffington Post article you posted in support of your argument.

If you’re going to argue that the issue is not the ‘substance’ it's the 'cage' in which we live then that’s fine but through your own argument then you’ve got some pretty big fixes on a national scale which need to be made first before legalizing all drugs.

The Portugal approach appears to be working well. Why do you feel compelled to trump it by legalizing all drugs?

 

[glantone]

I 'm not a fan of treating our indigenous like children. And anyway, I'm talking about scientific and medical testing followed by regulation. Why would that make It a problem for indigenous?

Ciggies and grog are regulated in this country. We all know the dangers. Yet, despite decades of awareness, the number of indigenous Australians puffing away on ciggies is about 2.5 times greater than that of non-Indigenous. And about half of indigenous women actually smoke ciggies and/or drink alcohol during pregnancy. Imagine that. Even if those numbers were falling it seems that basic health messages are clearly struggling to get through in many Indigenous Australian communities.

What makes you think that smoking Bob Hope won't be used in addition to and not instead of ciggies and grog? Given the reality do you see a problem?

I can see the real benefits of decriminalizing drugs (all drugs) but tell me how supplying Indigenous communities with an affordable, easily accessible and guaranteed quality weed high will improve education and retention rates, mental illness, employment opportunities, connectivity with the rest of Australia, reduce family violence etc etc?

 

[glantone]

.....For the umpteenth time, I am not advocaing making all "street drugs" legal...........

You may not be advocating legalizing ALL recreational drugs but plenty of PRE posters who DO have your arguments on their interchange bench. Just check out the 1st few pages of this thread. It's the guilt by association thing