no Disco not pot, I was quoting Lamby and his references to burglaries & home invasions etc, these & are generally not committed by our dope smoking friends (too busy on the couch ??)
lamb22 said:Hi Rosy. Just came back to this thread but I think legalisation is a no brainer for a number of reasons, including:
1. It would reduce the profits available to and presently made by criminals.
2. Part of those profits would make their way to Government to enact better education or health policies in relation to marijuana use.
3. Police resources would be freed up to actually catch bad guys.
4. Less burglaries and home invasions by addicts looking for cash.
5. Better treatment for addicts as criminality is not an issue.
6. Overseas evidence doesn't show an increase in addiction rates whether a drug is legal or not.
So in summary less crooks, less crime, more efficient police force, more money for health and education, better treatment (health and society wise) for addicts. Happy society all round and large increase in sale of burger rings at 3.00 am.
In my opinion it is really a no brainer. I think it will actually happen within the next genetration although people will need more convincing on 'harder' drugs.
PS As I said earlier children should be protected and strict penalties should apply for peddling drugs to minors.
Panthera tigris FC said:Hi Rosy,
Interesting discussion this.
Do you consider smoking to be "acceptable" in our society? Is it portrayed as such in the modern media?
rosy23 said:Yep very interesting Panthera...and nice to have a topical discussion without people resorting to insults and abuse.
I don't really know how to answer your questions sorry. They're a bit out of the blue and have no context for me to understand what and why you ask and I don't know what you refer to by "acceptable".
Anyway not understanding hasn't stopped me from waffling on before so Ill have a crack anyway. ;D
I don't really know about media portrayal. Media is restricted in regard to tobacco advertising so it's hard to gauge. The acceptance or lack thereof of smoking isn't anything I've noticed enough to have an opinion on. I'm not a real media person though. I have a quick squizz through the online newspaper sites, watch very little tv, only listen to abc radio either in bed or in the car cos they're the only options here. I rarely read magazines. Probably not qualified or knowledgeable to answer the question really.
As for smoking being socially acceptable. I detest cigarette smoke but I know a lot of smokers who do too. I didn't marry someone I was engaged to once because he insisted on smoking in the house and I couldn't stand it, and certainly wasn't willing to bring up children in that kind of environemnt.
With hindsight, and knowing the cost both personally and to society, and the addictive nature of tobacco, I wonder if the industry would even be legalised today. It's what makes me wonder about legalising cannabis, especially when people think it should be government run so they can raise taxes to treat and educate people.
I understand, and feel sorry for, those who started smoking tobacco in ignorance of the life threatening side effects and/or it's addictive nature and are paying the price now.
I am really saddened seeing early teenage kids smoking, and there seem to be a lot of 13yo girls doing so, because they are probably quite aware of the potential consequences.
I think it's probably considered acceptable largely because it's legal. I find that is changing though with the new smoking laws. It's not that long ago that you were frowned upon for asking guests to go outside to smoke or it was just tough luck if you were eating your dinner at a restaurant and someone lit up at the table beside you. I think it's more a matter of you are free to do what you like with your life kind of acceptance, but make sure it doesn't impact on me.
The underground element of the industry, and it amuses me people assume legalising drugs will wipe out the crime factor, probably wouldn't be considered acceptable in society and neither would the cost in human lives and resources.
rosy23 said:Thanks for the reply Lamby.
Hasn't convinced me in regard to legalising marijuana though. I don't think treatment for addiction or burglaries by dope smokers looking for cash are overly relevant factors, or decent reasons, in regard to legalising dope. I also don't think too many police resources are wasted on dope smokers...no massive savings to be made there I'd be interested to read the research on overseas dope smokers addiction rates that you mention, and what kind of addiction it is. Do you mean addicted similar to cigarette smokers, rather than an addiction like heroin users for example (Something I don't think is a factor with cannabis) ?
I might be wrong but I get the distinct impression your response confuses dope with harder drugs. There's a massive difference.
Back to cannabis though. As I asked Disco how do you envisage it be controlled and managed? Obviously you think it should be taxed to give the Govt money to educate people? Would it be modelled on the tobacco industry?
evo said:Quality posting, lamb.
The fact of the matter is, at bottom, government needs battles like the 'war on drugs'. If they ever came to their senses and gave it up, they would still have to develop other 'wars' on abstract nouns. It is what makes them most relevant; their raison de'rtre. The message always is: "Be afraid of 'them', and empower us to protect you". It doesn't natter who or what you should be afraid of, just be afraid.
If it wasn't the war on drugs, it would be the war on terrorism, or the war on the internet, or the war on other nations, etc.
lamb22 said:Sadly, you are 100% correct Evo!
About time the government became afraid of us!
Panthera tigris FC said:Maybe if you laid off the Cheech&Chongs (thanks Ox) for 5 minutes you would get motivated to do so......
:hihi
lamb22 said:Actually Voltaren, gluchosomine and fish oil tablets are my drugs of choice.
for osteoarthritis? Apparently it is no better than a placaebo.lamb22 said:Actually Voltaren, gluchosomine and fish oil tablets are my drugs of choice.
evo said:for osteoarthritis? Apparently it is no better than a placaebo.
fair enough. Maybe it was the chondrotin. Or maybe something else.Tigers of Old said:Apparently? Maybe so but Glucosomine (& chondrotin) certainly helped my recovery after I was prescribed it for a joint injury. Made the world of difference in a short space of time.
I'd back it.
evo said:fair enough. Maybe it was the chondrotin. Or maybe something else.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19398798
Pantera will be pleased to know it is peer reviewed!!
evo said:fair enough. Maybe it was the chondrotin. Or maybe something else.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19398798
Pantera will be pleased to know it is peer reviewed!!
lamb22 said:Full legalisation would need to be handed carefully but if you make sure you restrict access to minors, the consensus expert opinion is that addiction rates wont change or possibly decrease.
Panthera tigris FC said:Most of the evidence has shown that there is absolutely no benefit of chondrotin over placebo. The picture with glucosamine is not quite as clear
Tigers of Old said:Hardly conclusive then is it.
When it comes to the V&M industry I am as sceptical as anyone Panthera.
All l I know is after I was prescribed Glucosomine (and chondrotin) by a highly qualified physio on the back of a chronic year long arthritic injury, it literally started working for me in a matter of days. Admittedly I was also given some acupuncture (another prior scepticism) which may have also assisted.
rosy23 said:Considering cigarette smoking and alcohol consumption is accessible for, and partaking not uncommon in, minors how do you propose to restrict access of legalised drugs to them?
Wouldn't it be fun to watch our young kids shooting up heroin, requiring more each time to get the hit they want, sinking lower into the mire of self loathing in between hits and risking life threatening addiction.
I wonder if those advocating it's legalisation have ever watched heroin take over the life of someone they know? How they increasingly need more regular and stronger doses? How low they sink in between? How they hate what they've become and are powerless to stop it. I have with too many people I've known and it's not pretty.
Have they ever watched someone suffer extreme paranoia while on drugs? Have you ever had any experience with someone on hallucinogenic drugs? Both very dangerous conditions to have people running around in public putting their lives, and others, at risk.
It's been an interesting discussion but nobody has managed to convince me of the benefits and need to legalise drugs in any way. There is no way a smorgasbord of mind altering and highly addictive drugs will be legalised and made readily available to the general public so it's pretty futile to discuss it as though it's likely to happen. I'm still not convinced the advocates aren't just pulling my leg.
So moving right along.
I've had multiple knee operations. I've had very little success/relief from things like Voltaren, cortisone and glucosamine. Does anybody know where I can buy a packet of placebos. Seems they might be the way to go. :hihi