Essendon = Entitlement

[DavidSSS]

I agree AFL does not look like it would be simple for PEDs to be of help.

In weight lifting steroids seem to be a big advantage.

In cycling EPO is a clear advantage. It allows you to go on the edge day after day. Lance Armstrong was competitive but not really looking like a Grand Tour contender until he took EPO and crossed the line in first position a few times. EPO is also different in different people. Armstrong could take more EPO than some others and still stay below the limits tested for hemoglobin concentration. Yes he still had to be a great cyclist before he took the EPO but he could win with the best doping system in the trade.

DS

 

[Legends of 2017]

Thinking back over this, the Essendon ferals are still trying to clear their name, claiming an AFL agenda, conspiracy etc. Yet despite the multitude of lawyers and silks who are heavy Essendon supporters, despite the wads of cash the coiteries are happy to throw at the club, with a stable of media types desperate to clear Essendon of everything, not a single one has come out with any evidence of Essendon being hard done by. This purported AFL Evidence that makes Essendon hard done by has hardly made the news.

Really, if it's as cut and dried as is being made out by those in the industry, then the rest of us would have heard about it over and over again by now.

I reckon Donald trump must have hired the essendrug legal team to prove fraud occurred at the election. They have all the “proof” it occurred just can’t seem to produce evidence when asked to do so

 

[Scoop]

The wonderful part is they haven’t bottomed out yet.

Still haven’t realised the worst is yet to come.

 

[HR]

Unfortunately we will probably never know exactly but the stuff that seems to be generally accepted has sketchy efficacy at best.

I don't disagree with most here BR, the thing some choose to forget or gloss over or water down is exactly what you have written.
The fact that they conveniently didn't know what the players were given was a display of gross recklessness and they deserved more than they got. If they chose to destroy evidence as is strongly intimated they got way less than they deserved.
I could not care for the injections effect. Good bad or indifferent except for on a personallevel for the players. Essendon were not spending money for nothing, Essendon thought they were getting an advantage. Jobes and others performances would suggest they did.
Im still glad I can talk about this with my Essendon mates and they got nuthin.

 

[Quickdraw]

Golden Boy addressed an early press conference and insisted he’d accept responsibility - and then spent the following years worming and squirming and denying.
If he’d fessed up like he‘d promised - and like Cronulla did - he and his club would have saved themselves an enormous amount of pain

This!

 

[22nd Man]

They always seem to get lauded for winning trade period. Such a shame that they’re no good at the most important part of footy; the games played out on the ground!!

Maybe they can dust off the MCClelland Trophy and hand out it to the winner of the Trade Period.

 

[123cups]

Unfortunately we will probably never know exactly but the stuff that seems to be generally accepted has sketchy efficacy at best. My personal theory is Dank went specifically for new and experimental treatments because it suited the image he was cultivating of himself as being cutting edge and it makes it very hard to disprove because the science hasn't yet caught the product.

In general though people tend to have a 'magic bean' image of PEDs, you pop a pill and all of a sudden you have these massively improved sporting abilities but that just isn't the case.

There are some substances that can certainly help create an advantage but they are best used in one-dimensional sports where you can get an improvement through a specific area, eg gaining strength.

In a sport like AFL just about everything you are enhancing means you are de-enhancing another area of the game anyway because the game requires such multifaceted physiology. I think if you were going to dope in AFL then your best advantage would be as a way of treating injury but of course that means you need to be injured in the first place.

And on top of all of that you actually need to be pretty bloody good at whatever you are doing in the first place. They are performance enhancers, not creators.

If perhaps this topic isn’t your area of expertise, you should probably give more consideration to other arguments.

Baloo already outlined the recovery benefits for you.

 

[123cups]

I'd wager if you were to take a million ordinary AFL players and pumped the sort of rubbish into them that Dank was pedalling, you'd be more likely to turn one into a woman than produce a Brownlow medallist.

Do you disagree with the notion that Essendon’s performance spiked in the months following their club-wide program?

Essendon were 8-1. Significantly better than before or after.

A strange and unusual spike in soft tissue injuries, rarely if ever seen before, then derailed their season.

Jobe “set a record pace with 13 votes through seven rounds and hit 20 votes in round 11 - only the second player to achieve that feat since Lions legend Simon Black”.

So Jobe had the second greatest Brownlow season ever in the first half of the season after he started the program.

And never came close before or after that brief period of time.

Essendon‘s team performances and individual performances spiked following their club program and never hit those levels before or after.

Was this a coincidence?

 

[tigerman]

Do you disagree with the notion that Essendon’s performance spiked in the months following their club-wide program?

Their team performance spiked significantly in the first half of that season.

They were 8-1. They haven’t been that good before or after.

A strange and unusual spike in soft tissue injuries, rarely if ever seen before, then derailed their season.

Jobe “set a record pace with 13 votes through seven rounds and hit 20 votes in round 11 - only the second player to achieve that feat since Lions legend Simon Black”.

So Jobe had the second greatest Brownlow season ever in the first half of the season after he started the program.

And never came close before or after that brief period of time.

Essendon‘s team performances and individual performances spiked following their club program and never hit those levels before or after.

Was this a coincidence?

Yes the Bombers were Geelong like.........oh, that's right, Dean the weapon Robinson worked for both clubs.

 

[AngryAnt]

If perhaps this topic isn’t your area of expertise, you should probably give more consideration to other arguments.

Baloo already outlined the recovery benefits for you.

Great that we have highly qualified and esteemed sports scientists on the board who can correct frauds and charlatans like TBR

 

[Reverse Centaur]

I'll raise you an even more bizarre one.

How did Essendon's football manager, who had everyone even slightly responsible for anything to do with the saga as a direct report, slip quietly into Bendigo in an AFL job and never face any scrutiny at all?

PH was always slippery.

 

[Baloo]

Great that we have highly qualified and esteemed sports scientists on the board who can correct frauds and charlatans like TBR

Touchy antman. While TBR has better knowledge of some aspects of the game than most of us, he's hardly the definitive voice. Let's not forget he is on record as saying Emma's work would have minimal impact and that having a good list capable of sustained success is down to luck at the drafting table.

 

[AngryAnt]

Touchy antman. While TBR has better knowledge of some aspects of the game than most of us, he's hardly the definitive voice. Let's not forget he is on record as saying Emma's work would have minimal impact and that having a good list capable of sustained success is down to luck at the drafting table.

Nah dude just struck me as amusing at the time - "Baloo has already outlined the recovery benefits for you." So authoritative!

 

[Baloo]

Nah dude just struck me as amusing at the time - "Baloo has already outlined the recovery benefits for you." So authoritative!

You know as well as anyone that I've never been proven wrong about anything.

 

[TT33]

You know as well as anyone that I've never been proven wrong about anything.

You re obviously not married, most blokes know that the Mrs is always right about everything

 

[123cups]

Great that we have highly qualified and esteemed sports scientists on the board who can correct frauds and charlatans like TBR

I wasn’t saying we need to be experts to comment, I just phrased it like that out of respect.

My point was we should be more willing to listen to everything when we’re a layman on the topic. Otherwise, you’re going to have people push back a little.

This is particularly true for the Essendon situation. Misinformation everywhere.

 

[123cups]

Nah dude just struck me as amusing at the time - "Baloo has already outlined the recovery benefits for you." So authoritative!

I was being polite. I know he’s knowledgeable in a lot of areas and a great poster, but that post was misinformative. Normally that doesn’t rub me the wrong way, but people respect his voice because he usually knows what he’s talking about.

I highlighted Baloo’s point because I thought it contradicted what I quoted, but it’s common for the Essendon topic to become convoluted, so it’d take a while for me to reply with an extended comment.

Basically with that one, Baloo said supplements = faster recovery.

TBR said the best posting way to dope would be for better recovery. He limited that to just injury recovery.

But faster recovery benefits healthy athletes for the reasons outlined by Baloo.

Therefore, Essendon’s doping program was “the best possible” way to dope in AFL going by his words, yet his conclusion is the opposite... so everyone’s points are contradictory yet similar. It’s such a muddy topic that hurts my head lol.

 

[momentai]

I remember the ESS game that year. They beat us by around 3 goals. I am very one eyed when it comes to the Tigers but left the game wondering how we got so close. Bigger and faster everywhere.

 

[Scoop]

As long as they keep rolling Sheedy out as a saviour they are doomed. Club cannot move forward. Fancy bringing him back to board level. No club is more lost with their identity then the Bummers. Tullamarine HQ is a soulless wasteland.

Destined to live in the footballing wastelands for at least another decade.

 

[Baloo]

You re obviously not married, most blokes know that the Mrs is always right about everything

yeah I'm married, I should have rephrased that better...

You know as well as anyone that I've never been proven wrong about anything on PRE