Global Warming | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Global Warming

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
That graph only goes to April and anyway, it only drops the emissions to about 2008 levels.
2006 actually. 2006 < 2016.
Can you answer me this: how can altering the chemical composition of the atmosphere have no impact?
Some say given that every 1 million X in the atmosphere, where X is a unit of volume, breaks down to

780,840 parts nitrogen
209,460 oxygen
0 to 30,000 water vapour
9,340 argon
414 carbon dioxide
18 neon
5 helium
2 methane
1 krypton

...and that the only constituent gas that varies markedly in a given location is water vapour, an extra 20 or 200 units per million of a trace element should make negligible difference. Others insist the earth is an extremely fragile system and that a tiny increase in CO2 will doom us all. Still others sit somewhere in between and say I'm not sure, let's just keep an eye on it. Hence we have the climate debate...
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
It's all BS anyway - Lee has consistently rejected correlation over the longer timescale, now he wants to see correlation over a much shorter timescale to prove a point.
So it's OK for scientists to look for variation due to the pandemic but it's not OK for me to look for it. And it's not OK for scientists or me to consider other possible causes of temperature variation.

That makes me the bad guy 100% of the time. Fine.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,708
18,328
Melbourne
The COVID lockdown has had an insignificant impact on the increase in greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere. The World Meteorological Organisation recently stated that the impact has been less than normal year to year fluctuations:

Carbon dioxide levels continue at record levels, despite COVID-19 lockdown


Geneva, 23 November 2020 (WMO) - The industrial slowdown due to the COVID-19 pandemic has not curbed record levels of greenhouse gases which are trapping heat in the atmosphere, increasing temperatures and driving more extreme weather, ice melt, sea-level rise and ocean acidification, according to the World Meteorological Organization (WMO).


The lockdown has cut emissions of many pollutants and greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide. But any impact on CO2 concentrations - the result of cumulative past and current emissions - is in fact no bigger than the normal year to year fluctuations in the carbon cycle and the high natural variability in carbon sinks like vegetation.


Carbon dioxide levels saw another growth spurt in 2019 and the annual global average breached the significant threshold of 410 parts per million, according to the WMO Greenhouse Gas Bulletin. The rise has continued in 2020. Since 1990, there has been a 45% increase in total radiative forcing – the warming effect on the climate - by long-lived greenhouse gases, with CO2 accounting for four fifths of this.


“Carbon dioxide remains in the atmosphere for centuries and in the ocean for even longer. The last time the Earth experienced a comparable concentration of CO2 was 3-5 million years ago, when the temperature was 2-3°C warmer and sea level was 10-20 meters higher than now. But there weren’t 7.7 billion inhabitants,” said WMO Secretary-General Professor Petteri Taalas.

Full media release here: https://public.wmo.int/en/media/pre...tinue-record-levels-despite-covid-19-lockdown

There are scientists looking for any impact of the COVID lockdown, and then there are some who look for this variation in a vain attempt to discredit those who have studied the field for decades. I know which ones I trust more.

Lee, what are the other causes of temperature variation you are looking for and why?

Plus, I will repeat my earlier question: if we alter the chemical composition of the atmosphere, how does this have no impact?

DS
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,168
15,037
2006 actually. 2006 < 2016.

Some say given that every 1 million X in the atmosphere, where X is a unit of volume, breaks down to

780,840 parts nitrogen
209,460 oxygen
0 to 30,000 water vapour
9,340 argon
414 carbon dioxide
18 neon
5 helium
2 methane
1 krypton

...and that the only constituent gas that varies markedly in a given location is water vapour, an extra 20 or 200 units per million of a trace element should make negligible difference. Others insist the earth is an extremely fragile system and that a tiny increase in CO2 will doom us all. Still others sit somewhere in between and say I'm not sure, let's just keep an eye on it. Hence we have the climate debate...

It's a physical property of CO2 - it traps infrared heat in the atmosphere to a greater extent at higher concentrations. It's not a chemical "trace element" property.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,168
15,037
Sorry, trace gas. It's a trace gas by definition. All of them are except the top three.

Yes. It's a physical property, not a chemical one. CO2 is not directly harmful to us in those concentrations. That's not the problem, as I'm sure you are aware.
 

Midsy

I am the one who knocks.
Jan 18, 2014
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London
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
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Melbourne
Big countries are taking action: China and India both setting goals to increase clean energy targets.

Small countries are taking action, the Vatican committing to net zero by 2050.

Meanwhile Australia shirks responsibility, which is ironic given how well placed Australia is to take advantage of moves towards clean energy.

DS
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,168
15,037
Big countries are taking action: China and India both setting goals to increase clean energy targets.

Small countries are taking action, the Vatican committing to net zero by 2050.

Meanwhile Australia shirks responsibility, which is ironic given how well placed Australia is to take advantage of moves towards clean energy.

DS

yeah. One problem is all the liquid natural gas we export, and the stranglehold the oil and gas lobbyists still have over governments here. LNG we export doesn't count to our emissions, but we are a huge part of the problem here as well.

Where there's a dollar to be made...
 
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MD Jazz

Don't understand football? Talk to the hand.
Feb 3, 2017
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Big countries are taking action: China and India both setting goals to increase clean energy targets
DS

So we don’t trust China on anything but their climate policies? Isn’t that a little nieve?
 
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spook

Kick the f*ckin' goal
Jun 18, 2007
22,299
27,548
Melbourne
Australia: We're not taking climate action until everyone else does.
Everyone: *Takes climate action*
Australia: No.

Look for Scummo to go full Milo Minderbinder and try to force Australians to eat chocolate-coated coal.
 
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Althom

Tiger Superstar
Jul 23, 2016
1,175
1,027
So we don’t trust China on anything but their climate policies? Isn’t that a little nieve?
The amount of coal fired power stations that China is building in China and as part of their BRI programmes elsewhere just proves the lie. They have no intention of being carbon neutral by 2050 or by 3000.
Especially now that they'll be burning high sulphur/high ash coal so their emissions will take a double hit upwards
 
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MB78

I can have my cake and eat it too
Sep 8, 2009
8,016
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Big countries are taking action: China and India both setting goals to increase clean energy targets.

Small countries are taking action, the Vatican committing to net zero by 2050.

Meanwhile Australia shirks responsibility, which is ironic given how well placed Australia is to take advantage of moves towards clean energy.

DS

Do you really think China care about the environment?

Their actions are destroying our world fishing populations.

 
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Althom

Tiger Superstar
Jul 23, 2016
1,175
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Australia: We're not taking climate action until everyone else does.
Everyone: *Takes climate action*
Australia: No.

Look for Scummo to go full Milo Minderbinder and try to force Australians to eat chocolate-coated coal.
Everyone: "Lets say we're taking climate action"
Fixed it for you.
 

Althom

Tiger Superstar
Jul 23, 2016
1,175
1,027
Big countries are taking action: China and India both setting goals to increase clean energy targets.

Small countries are taking action, the Vatican committing to net zero by 2050.

Meanwhile Australia shirks responsibility, which is ironic given how well placed Australia is to take advantage of moves towards clean energy.

DS
The Vatican?
What are they going to do? Stop burning stuff when a new pope get elected?
China?
India?
Neither of those nations have any intention of committing to anything. Sure they've said they will but it will never happen.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,708
18,328
Melbourne
Look, I don't trust China, then again I don't trust any government particularly. But at least they are saying they will make an effort. Australia is clearly stating we won't make an effort and are actively trying to encourage banks to fund fossil fuels and the government wants to subsidise new fossil fuel power.

The impact of climate change continues, it is not going to happen some time in the future we are already seeing the impact.

The longer we wait the worse it gets and the harder it will be to solve.

Telling me the whole world is full of lying politicians and deceptive governments is not telling me anything I don't already know, they go along with, and are in cahoots with, the lying CEOs and deceptive businesses who also mouth platitudes on various issues.

DS
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
Look, I don't trust China, then again I don't trust any government particularly. But at least they are saying they will make an effort. Australia is clearly stating we won't make an effort
Easy for China to say, it's a decade before the UN requires them to reduce emissions. Meanwhile Australia is on track to meet the Paris agreement.

Zero net emissions by 2050 is not a thing. If the government is reluctant to commit to the proposition, it's probably because it will prove impossible.
 
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