Justice?

[craig]

Maybe it's all part of the plan.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19551657-29277,00.html

Milat threatens suicide

Who Cares ............. Does he want a hand cos there are plenty who'd be willing to give the prick one.

 

[eight ace]

You said big deal about the toaster, Dyer. You should now go and whip yourself until you bleed, you monster.

Seems that some of you people believe you are better equipped to manage a prison population than the prison authorities themselves. Perhaps you should provide them with the benefits of your vast experiences. Because as Dyer said, and whether you like it or not, what we are talking about here is a management issue, not a criminal justice issue. And to refer to Dyer's comment as "unbelievable" is emotive crap. Get over yourself.

 

[Liverpool]

You said big deal about the toaster, Dyer. You should now go and whip yourself until you bleed, you monster.

Seems that some of you people believe you are better equipped to manage a prison population than the prison authorities themselves. Perhaps you should provide them with the benefits of your vast experiences. Because as Dyer said, and whether you like it or not, what we are talking about here is a management issue, not a criminal justice issue. And to refer to Dyer's comment as "unbelievable" is emotive crap. Get over yourself.

Gee....you started your post off well eightace, and thought at last you might be onto something....until I read the rest of it... :

Its got nothing to do with being equipped or having having the knowledge to run a prison.
I would have thought it was common sense, that its a JAIL...and that a person who commits multiple, gruesome, murders....he goes to jail....gets enough food to eat....one bed to sleep...one toilet to use...communal showers to wash in.
How hard is that? What do you need "vast experience" for...we're not buidling the bloody space-shuttle mate!
All this garbage about its a management issue and not a criminal justice issue...its just passing the buck from one department to the next...blah, blah...excuses, excuses.

All I'm saying is that the toaster or any luxury items should not be even considered, as a form of 'reward' for good behaviour.
These cretins like Milat, had their chance for good behaviour on the outside, and failed misreably themselves, as well as taking the lives of innocent people...and now they should be punished, not rewarded!

Now why don't you go across to the Sofia Rodriguez thread and stick up for that poor fella, Dante Arthurs....as we need more people like yourself supporting the rights of the scum in this world!

 

[eight ace]

There's the difference between me and you - your posts don't even start off well. That's right, I'll go and stick up for Arthurs now, you *smile*ing idiot, given that my last post showed such support for Milat. The fact that you can't distinguish between the issues is why I posted in the first place. The simple-minded *smile* that passes for argument in your world is the real cretinism. Off you go, save the world with "Liverpool's common sense". Oh, I forgot, the only thing you do is gob off on the internet.

 

[Michael]

Eight ace
Can you explain why we are sucking up to the Indonesians so much.
I'm thinking that its nice to get on well with your neighbours, but current events seem to be ridiculous.
What do we want from them?

 

[eight ace]

I would imagine Indonesia is a complex country to govern, with a large populace of unsophisticated Liverpool types who need a populist message to keep them happy. The Indonesian government is caught between trying to manage a large, fledgling democracy and also ensure that a minority of Islamists do not gain greater influence than they already have. To a certain extent I think the Australian government's approach recognises that and tries to make it easier for the Indonesians. Relatively we are a much more stable country with a larger economy, and we are in a position to help.

Bear in mind that a large, unstable and religiously motivated Indonesia which experiences civil war on our doorstep would be in no means favourable to us.

 

[Michael]

I would imagine Indonesia is a complex country to govern, with a large populace of unsophisticated Liverpool types who need a populist message to keep them happy. The Indonesian government is caught between trying to manage a large, fledgling democracy and also ensure that a minority of Islamists do not gain greater influence than they already have. To a certain extent I think the Australian government's approach recognises that and tries to make it easier for the Indonesians. Relatively we are a much more stable country with a larger economy, and we are in a position to help.

Bear in mind that a large, unstable and religiously motivated Indonesia which experiences civil war on our doorstep would be in no means favourable to us.

So we are being nice to the indonesians, to assist with their own internal stability.
So this would explain Howards backflip on Bashir. Dont push it as you'll be picking on the muslims

 

[eight ace]

Merely offering a suggestion as to the motivation for our dealings with Indonesia. Of course, that means I love all Islamist bombers and fully support their aims to take over the world. I wear underpants which say "I love Jihad" on them and I cheer when every bomb goes off. Hurrah for the Jihad, I say. Hurrah for Ivan Milat and the Unabomber too.

My suggestion is premised on the notion that we are in a better position to make concessions than the Indonesian government, and that it is cheaper to make those concessions than to see Indonesia destabilise.

 

[Liverpool]

There's the difference between me and you - your posts don't even start off well. That's right, I'll go and stick up for Arthurs now, you *smile*ing idiot, given that my last post showed such support for Milat. The fact that you can't distinguish between the issues is why I posted in the first place. The simple-minded *smile* that passes for argument in your world  is the real cretinism. Off you go, save the world with "Liverpool's common sense". Oh, I forgot, the only thing you do is gob off on the internet.

Eight-ace,
Well done mate...you've learnt how to swear! : :clap
And yes, it is common-sense to treat Milat as the cretin he is....why over-complicate things, when its pretty easy to see?
And to ridicule the rest of us with comments like:

Seems that some of you people believe you are better equipped to manage a prison population than the prison authorities themselves. Perhaps you should provide them with the benefits of your vast experiences.

....well, sorry your royal-majesty...do YOU know what vast experiences the criminal-justice system has to make such decisions, like the one with Milat?
I'm sure you don't need to have a PhD, to realise that a monster who has killed people in the most brutal fashion deserves nothing....just the bare necesseties.

And gobbing-off on the internet...well, if I'm not mistaken, thats exactly what you're doing as well...so... :blah

Keep up the good work!

 

[Michael]

Merely offering a suggestion as to the motivation for our dealings with Indonesia. Of course, that means I love all Islamist bombers and fully support their aims to take over the world. I wear underpants which say "I love Jihad" on them and I cheer when every bomb goes off. Hurrah for the Jihad, I say. Hurrah for Ivan Milat and the Unabomber too.

My suggestion is premised on the notion that we are in a better position to make concessions than the Indonesian government, and that it is cheaper to make those concessions than to see Indonesia destabilise.

Thanks 8ace.
I thought there must be some other motive for our fear of offending the indonesians. Like exploration rights or flogging them natural gas.
But your point about a stable indonesia is a good one

By the way, I find your posts to be enlightening and rational. A nice balance to some of the more redneck comments one reads

 

[eight ace]

Thanks Michael. I don't go out of my way to offend people, but there is an awful lot of crap spoken at times - really thoughtless rubbish passed off as "common sense".

Liverpool - I grasped the swearing art some time ago, thanks all the same. You asked me whether I knew what vast experiences the 'criminal justice system' had to make the decisions it did in relation to Milat. What I said was that it is a prison management issue - and yes I assume prison authorities do indeed know more than me (and certainly more than you) as to how to manage a prison population - although granted you probably need to visit your relatives there quite regularly.

What I am really staggered at is that some of you see a toaster as something going to the core of criminal punishment. It doesn't.

And you're right, I am gobbing off on the internet - but then, in this case I am not the one claiming superior knowledge and experience on the issue compared to those who have to deal with these people every day of their working lives.

 

[Liverpool]

Thanks Michael. I don't go out of my way to offend people, but there is an awful lot of crap spoken at times - really thoughtless rubbish passed off as "common sense".

Don't go out of your way to offend anyone.... :rofl....oh...pleeeease...you're killing me...just a reminder:

There's the difference between me and you - your posts don't even start off well. That's right, I'll go and stick up for Arthurs now, you *smile*ing idiot, given that my last post showed such support for Milat. The fact that you can't distinguish between the issues is why I posted in the first place. The simple-minded *smile* that passes for argument in your world  is the real cretinism. Off you go, save the world with "Liverpool's common sense". Oh, I forgot, the only thing you do is gob off on the internet.

and

and yes I assume prison authorities do indeed know more than me (and certainly more than you) as to how to manage a prison population - although granted you probably need to visit your relatives there quite regularly.

So...what was it you were saying about not going out of your way to offend anyone?...yeah...you're a real angel... :hihi...again eightace, like on other threads where you've disagreed with me, you again stoop down to personal insults.
There's not one post where I've called you a name or insulted you.
Argue your case, but name-calling and slurs....just pathetic.  :

And you're right, I am gobbing off on the internet - but then, in this case I am not the one claiming superior knowledge and experience on the issue compared to those who have to deal with these people every day of their working lives.

I didn't say I was superior...I said it would be quite common for anyone to come to the conclusion, if they were in charge of a prison, that someone like Milat deserved nothing.

If you are talking about "superior knowledge"...remember it was YOU who said this:

Seems that some of you people believe you are better equipped to manage a prison population than the prison authorities themselves. Perhaps you should provide them with the benefits of your vast experiences. Because as Dyer said, and whether you like it or not, what we are talking about here is a management issue, not a criminal justice issue. And to refer to Dyer's comment as "unbelievable" is emotive crap. Get over yourself.

You and Dyer'ere say its a management issue and not a criminal justice issue?
Oh....and you know that with your knowledge, do you?
Lets see what you said:

What I said was that it is a prison management issue - and yes I assume prison authorities do indeed know more than me (and certainly more than you) as to how to manage a prison population - although granted you probably need to visit your relatives there quite regularly.

You say you "assume"...so you don't know yourself, do you????...so what gives you the right to have a go at the rest of us, with the "you people with vast experiences" line...what the hell do you know?
About the same as us, if not less, if you ask me! 
And yet it is YOu having a go at ME about 'superior knowledge'.... :rofl

If you are going to have a crack at me eightace...I think you should remind yourself of some of the stuff you have preached to the rest of us "simple people".

Its pretty hypocritical, I think.

 

[Rosy]

There's not one post where I've called you a name or insulted you.

Read below Liverpool.   :rofl

....well, sorry your royal-majesty...

You're so full of it.  I don't know what you do for a living but I know what 8ace does and judging by your comments on this thread you're swimming way out of your depth.

 

[Liverpool]

There's not one post where I've called you a name or insulted you.

Read below Liverpool.   :rofl

....well, sorry your royal-majesty...

You're so full of it.  I don't know what you do for a living but I know what 8ace does and judging by your comments on this thread you're swimming way out of your depth.

Well, "royal majesty" is a little bit different to be called a *smile* idiot...
If it wasn't, it would have read "r***l m*****y" ...yes? ;D

And yes, you don't know what I do, do you?

 

[Bill James]

I got the strap quite a lot in primary school.Amazing how things have changed.

Like the venue?

 

[eight ace]

Are you suggesting it is unreasonable to assume that prison authorities know more than you do about managing a prison population?

And yes, I do know that it is a management issue. The nature of your post gives me the right to have a go at you. Like it or not.

 

[Liverpool]

Are you suggesting it is unreasonable to assume that prison authorities know more than you do about managing a prison population?

And yes, I do know that it is a management issue. The nature of your post gives me the right to have a go at you. Like it or not.

No, I'm suggesting you don't get so personal with everyone who has a different opinion, when you yourself only "assume" (and now you say you "know" : that its a management issue.
Like I have said numerous times before...argue your case, debate with me or anyone else if you disagree or want to state your opinion....but just swearing and abusing people is childish.

Like i said before...I don't care if its a management issue or not anyways.....all I want is that the people like Milat get NOTHING!!!
Simple.

 

[Dyer'ere]

Are you suggesting it is unreasonable to assume that prison authorities know more than you do about managing a prison population?

And yes, I do know that it is a management issue. The nature of your post gives me the right to have a go at you. Like it or not.

No, I'm suggesting you don't get so personal with everyone who has a different opinion, when you yourself only "assume" (and now you say you "know" : that its a management issue.
Like I have said numerous times before...argue your case, debate with me or anyone else if you disagree or want to state your opinion....but just swearing and abusing people is childish.

Puddles, you have no credibility.

 

[Bill James]

Merely offering a suggestion as to the motivation for our dealings with Indonesia. Of course, that means I love all Islamist bombers and fully support their aims to take over the world. I wear underpants which say "I love Jihad" on them and I cheer when every bomb goes off. Hurrah for the Jihad, I say. Hurrah for Ivan Milat and the Unabomber too.

My suggestion is premised on the notion that we are in a better position to make concessions than the Indonesian government, and that it is cheaper to make those concessions than to see Indonesia destabilise.

Thanks 8ace.
I thought there must be some other motive for our fear of offending the indonesians.  Like exploration rights or flogging them natural gas.
But your point about a stable indonesia is a good one

By the way, I find your posts to be enlightening and rational.  A nice balance to some of the more redneck comments one reads

If Indonesia destabilises, West Papua is likely to be one of the first provinces to fall out of the umbrella, if it does Australia will almost certainly have to pick up the can for West Papua, like we have done in East Timor. While it can be argued that we should have done more to prevent the Indonesian takeover of East Timor, sponsoring independance was idealistic rather than practical. It ignored the realities of small state viabilty and the long history of cultural conflict in East Timor that pre-dated the Indonesian takeover. To have another East Timor to our immeidate north would be a logistical nightmare for Australia.

 

[eight ace]

I know it is a management issue, I assume management know more than you. If you are going to try to paraphrase me or attempt stupid word games, you should try to get it right. Otherwise, you just look foolish. In any event, nothing you have said has led me to believe my assumption is flawed.

You're right about West Papua Bill, Along with Aceh it is one of the primary focus points for unrest in Indonesia - coupled with a wider push by Islamists for Sharia to be implemented  in Aceh and across Indonesia generally. In the event that wider unrest or even civil war ever arose in Indonesia, there is no doubt that we would bear a huge cost. Unfortunately, there will need to be a level of pragmatism by Australia in our dealings with Indonesia, given its somewhat fragile democracy and fragmented populace.