midfield depth | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

midfield depth

Streak said:
He does get a heap of it, but gee, he has to improve his usage.
I agree , just that players who can get the pill are very useful. I thought his usage was reasonable in 2010 up to the last 4-5 weeks of the season but then seemed to drop away .
I think it may be part fitness and part concentration because he has shown he can kick the ball well. Not sure we have seen a super fit Connors yet.
 
Tigerblood said:
I said centre square midfielder. Look, I think Deledio is an awesome player, but his awesomeness has been established everywhere but in the centre square. We are getting into semantics here, but I don't count him as a great midfielder, I count him as a great playmaker off the backline.
We don't want him to be the inside midfielder because he breaks lines & kicks well Martin Cotchin Foley Grigg Tuck etc are the guys we want to get the ball to Deledio Edwards Morton every side needs a good mix or inside & outside players it just happens that Lids can do a bit of inside work can go forward & kick a goal
 
Inspector said:
Deledio Martin Grigg Cotchin Edwards Houli Connors Morton Tuck Nason Jackson Foley Conca White Hicks Contin Weberley Helbig good mix there of speed inside & outside players.

Any team can list their "midfielders" but its the quality and performance of the group that counts. We've been lacking in previous years and posters have done a similar list ie of our great midfield depth but a lot of the players then listed were lacking and have moved on or are still lacking. Time will tell.
 
tigertim said:
Any team can list their "midfielders" but its the quality and performance of the group that counts. We've been lacking in previous years and posters have done a similar list ie of our great midfield depth but a lot of the players then listed were lacking and have moved on or are still lacking. Time will tell.

You mean sort of like what this guy is doing in this article http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hird-builds-up-midfield-strength-20101210-18su6.html ??.


It's a good read that one. :rofl
 
Tigerblood said:
I said centre square midfielder. Look, I think Deledio is an awesome player, but his awesomeness has been established everywhere but in the centre square. We are getting into semantics here, but I don't count him as a great midfielder, I count him as a great playmaker off the backline.

I can see where you're coming from TigerBlood but i disagree for the following reasons:-

1) When you talk of mid field - centre square players, ideally you want guys that are going to win the clearance from the middle. In that regard, we're better equipped than almost any side. We have inside mids to burn - Foley (often on the burst), Martin and Cotchin are genuine in and under mids, both very hard to tackle. Tuck - no explanation necessary, and he has a habit of getting a string of clearances when the game is up for grabs in the 3rd and last quarters. Jackson as the nullifier who can also win 20 possessions a game. Grigg who is also good under and has shown he's capable of 30 possessions a game. They are all genuine centre square players. In the cases of Cotchin, Martin, Tuck and Foley - damned hard at it ball winners.

So why second bottom? We had so many new players in the first half of the season that we were always going to struggle to win a game. When we did get on a roll, it came to a halt when we lost Cotchin for 4 weeks, Jackson for 4 weeks, Foley was gone before he got started and Cousins towards he end was on one leg. That left us with a first year player in Martin along side Tuck and then basically putting other guys in that we’d prefer as transition mids outside the centre square.

2) When we talk of mid field players we’re really talking about our flankers as well these days – guys who get possession in transition. Virtually as important as your midfield, is the ability to run it out of defense and deliver it accurately. In our case, we’ve lacked sadly in this area and as a result been hurt on the scoreboard more than any team on turn overs – because we’ve turned it over in our back half. This is why I’m happy to see Lids playing back there. Maybe with some of our recruiting he can be released back into the middle now, but I still don’t mind if he stays back.

If we are any good in 2011, it will be because the likes of Conners and hopefully Farmer kicking on. I have a feeling Batchelor will be fast tracked into this role as well – manning the 3rd tall and providing a spring board from defense. In this regard, Moore may become vulnerable simply because he may be over taken by guys who are better at turning defense into attack.

The mids in transition – Nason who typically played back, but knew when to spread and provide a target out of defense. White did the same but further forward. Morton I think will be pivotal in this role, particularly under pressure as he is so strong in the air. In a pinch you could go to him in a competition and he’ll mark it 7 out of 10 times. Webberly is another that was more important than I think most posters give him credit for – because he knew when to spread and provide that running option.

Edwards is an interesting one in that I don’t consider him a centre square mid, but I feel he needs to follow the lead of Nason and get on his bike and win more uncontested possessions. He came along well last year, but if he was in space more often, he’d go from averaging around 18 possessions to averaging 24 – 26 a game. It’s why he isn’t prolific. He relies on his inside work too much particularly relative to the number of inside mids we already have – in my opinion.

With the additions of Houli and Conca as mids playing most of their footy outside the centre square I like the way our running game is coming together.

All this isn’t to say that guys like Conca, Houli, Edwards and co won’t ever be used in the middle. You’d have to in order to keep rotations up, but predominantly I think the majority of their work and value will be in driving it forward once your inside mids have got it out.

The other obvious thing is this - 12.08am on a Saturday night and i'm on here! I got to get a girl friend!
 
It doesnt change things Frick. Mrs Navy's long tucked up so the end result is the same. ;D

You do touch on a good point though. Clearances.

How important are they... Navy would say clearances of questionable quality i.e Tuck, Jackson are of veru negligable advantage if at all.

& even quality one's are possibly overrated by fans & media alike.

Pressure is a far bigger indicator to win football games these days INO.
 
Disco08 said:
Apart from starting 2008 up forward, he lined up in the centre square almost every time during those two years

And didn't he have a period in this time when he led the league for contested ball wins over the last 10 rounds of the season? Deledio can play middle back and forward and I'm guessing he'll play all 3 of those roles at various stages of 2011.
 
Navy Days said:
It doesnt change things Frick. Mrs Navy's long tucked up so the end result is the same. ;D

You do touch on a good point though. Clearances.

How important are they... Navy would say clearances of questionable quality i.e Tuck, Jackson are of veru negligable advantage if at all.

& even quality one's are possibly overrated by fans & media alike.

Pressure is a far bigger indicator to win football games these days INO.

Agree that quality is as important as quantity in clearances.

But disagree they are not important. Firstly they can be useful because they are one of the few opportunities to get forwards one out. Secondly as teams have become very good at trapping the ball inside 50 field position has become relevant again. Getting the ball inside 50 through a clearance is an important first step in putting the ball where you want it to win the pressure game.
 
One point missed regards to clearances,,

1 . if we have it more,that means they have it less.....................................

2 less = more,lol.
 
I think Tuck,jackson,and foley,even grigg,,there clearances will become alot more important,once they are dishing off to the couple of outside guys we have picked up this year that can deliver by foot with precision,Houli,Cotchin(can now be released outside),even martin can be released outside,and conca in time will be another outside.

Its the outside guys,that will receive,and deliver more effectively that is where our contested work will start to pay off,with great delivery,and in turn ,a hell of a lot more pressure on opposition backs,thus hopefully resulting on more goals for us per game,and in turn hopefully,that results in more wins.

There is every reason to expect improvement,in my opinion.
 
tigertigertigertiger said:
I think Tuck,jackson,and foley,even grigg,,there clearances will become alot more important,once they are dishing off to the couple of outside guys we have picked up this year that can deliver by foot with precision,Houli,Cotchin(can now be released outside),even martin can be released outside,and conca in time will be another outside.

Its the outside guys,that will receive,and deliver more effectively that is where our contested work will start to pay off,with great delivery,and in turn ,a hell of a lot more pressure on opposition backs,thus hopefully resulting on more goals for us per game,and in turn hopefully,that results in more wins.

There is every reason to expect improvement,in my opinion.

Really should have added,Nason in that group,that can play outside,and deliver well.

There are others too,morton,edwards,lids,newman,,,,,who hit targets,and can rotate through the midfield in a outside role.
 
Sorry to post and repost over myself,but this contested ball thingy hit a nerve,

contested possession won sydney a FLAG,,,,,

would much rather be winning the ball,than getting smashed there.

contested possession,is, and always will be the core,of great sides.

That will never change,no matter how many rule changes.

And that's all i think i have got to say about,thaaaat.
 
Col.W.Kurtz said:
Agree that quality is as important as quantity in clearances.

But disagree they are not important. Firstly they can be useful because they are one of the few opportunities to get forwards one out. Secondly as teams have become very good at trapping the ball inside 50 field position has become relevant again. Getting the ball inside 50 through a clearance is an important first step in putting the ball where you want it to win the pressure game.

Navy never said they arent important. They certainly are Col. But they may be overstated a touch in an era where pressure to force turnovers is taking major signifigance.

Collingwood V Geelongs gamestyles are a case in point. Geelong are excellent at clearances & absolutely towelled Collingwood in clearances in the pre final. But the game was one of the most lop sided matches of the whole season.
 
Navy Days said:
Navy never said they arent important. They certainly are Col. But they may be overstated a touch in an era where pressure to force turnovers is taking major signifigance.

Collingwood V Geelongs gamestyles are a case in point. Geelong are excellent at clearances & absolutely towelled Collingwood in clearances in the pre final. But the game was one of the most lop sided matches of the whole season.


Would have been a hell of a lot more lop sided,had collingwood won more clearances.
 
Navy Days said:
Navy never said they arent important. They certainly are Col. But they may be overstated a touch in an era where pressure to force turnovers is taking major signifigance.

Collingwood V Geelongs gamestyles are a case in point. Geelong are excellent at clearances & absolutely towelled Collingwood in clearances in the pre final. But the game was one of the most lop sided matches of the whole season.

Commentators definitely like them because they are easy stats to measure and track, but it hard to take seriously the BT's or Frawely's of the world anyway.

It's an interesting debate, by far the best clearance team in the AFL last year was the dogs, did that make they a great team? No, but they were pretty decent. FWIW in the first grand final this year clearances were about even, in the replay Collingwood absolutely smashed St Kilda

On a slightly separate topic I disagree with lumping Tuck and Jackson in the same boat with clearances. Tuck is far more prone to the eyes shut quick bomb than Jackson is.
 
I am still not of the thinking that our midfield is done.

Although it is vastly improved, I am still not sold that we have the right mix of inside/outside, smarts/grunt and sizes. I like to think that in terms of being elite we should be aiming to have the engine room at it's peak around 2013-14.

By then I see these guys being A grade: Martin, Cotchin, Deledio.
CORE: Conca, Grigg, Houli, Morton, Edwards, Tuck, Jackson.
????: Foley, Helbig, Contin, Connors.

Conca at this stage is a question mark, although I do think he will make it. Not sure if he will be elite but i think he will play a lot of football. So I will add him as a part of the core group. But I don't see us being done. Not by a long shot. I want true mids, not long shots like Nason. They can play there role but not as true mids. Even Morton may slide back to a forward but he showed some huge signs late in the year. He could be A grade. And Dan Connors needs to back up last years year to be considered a long termer. If he has a shocking year he could be gone at years end.

Need one more complete footballer who can be a clearance footballer and a linebreaking mid on top of what I have listed above to have it looked down.
 
Totally agree with above post.

We have a few contin types on the list,and one may pop up,out of the blue.

If not,(once we have 75000 members in 2 years time),and the introduction of free agency,we can buy a judd,type.
 
SCOOP said:
I am still not of the thinking that our midfield is done.

Although it is vastly improved, I am still not sold that we have the right mix of inside/outside, smarts/grunt and sizes. I like to think that in terms of being elite we should be aiming to have the engine room at it's peak around 2013-14.

By then I see these guys being A grade: Martin, Cotchin, Deledio.
CORE: Conca, Grigg, Houli, Morton, Edwards, Tuck, Jackson.
????: Foley, Helbig, Contin, Connors.

Need one more complete footballer who can be a clearance footballer and a linebreaking mid on top of what I have listed above to have it looked down.

Collingwood: Pendlebury, Swan, Didak, Thomas(?)
Saints: Del Santo, Goddard, Hayes, Montagna (?)

Give us 2-3 more years and hopefully one of our core can slide up to A. Who knows, perhaps Foley could do it in 2011?
 
SCOOP said:
Need one more complete footballer who can be a clearance footballer and a linebreaking mid on top of what I have listed above to have it looked down.

kinda like foley?