Opposition discussion | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Opposition discussion

123cups

Tiger Superstar
May 1, 2016
2,303
1,842
Melbourne are the real deal IMO, they're nothing like Collingwood's copycat version of us. Melbourne also bullied us and out-alpha'd us, which I hate to say.

And as for Petracca... well even Dusty wasn't Dusty yet in 2017. He had no credentials.

I won't forget the opposition disrespect towards us (and Dusty) during 2017. Melbourne are every bit as worthy of respect now as we were in 2017. The major difference with us is we're not arrogant like the Adelaide Crows were.
 
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Ridley

Tiger Legend
Jul 21, 2003
13,493
6,886
Melbourne are the real deal IMO, they're nothing like Collingwood's copycat version of us. Melbourne also bullied us and out-alpha'd us, which I hate to say.

And as for Petracca... well even Dusty wasn't Dusty yet in 2017. He had no credentials.

I won't forget the opposition disrespect towards us (and Dusty) during 2017. Melbourne are every bit as worthy of respect now as we were in 2017. The major difference with us is we're not arrogant like the Adelaide Crows were.
Yes agree Melbourne can't do any more than they have this season. They completely outplayed us in round 6; we were chasing their tails from late in the first quarter and never looked like winning after that. However given their recent history I guess people won't trust them until they achieve something; like us in 2017.

That said the best time to play Richmond is in the first half of the season. We can be hot and cold and we're not wound up until after the bye. I'm confident that we will handle Melbourne if we meet them in the finals. Our best is too good for anyone as we have proven over the past 4 years. Hopefully we can be at or near our best when it counts.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
38,831
8,665
Melbourne are every bit as worthy of respect now as we were in 2017.
2016 was an aberration for us in that we missed the finals. But we were there before and returned back in 2017. We were under the radar because during the off season we went feral. Focus on footy were making us a laughing stock and the all the media pundits piled into Dimma. But we had runs and experience on the board.

Melbourne:
2015 13th
2016 11th
2017 9th
2018 5th
2019 17th
2020 9th

Melbourne's aberration was 2018. I'm not convinced they are any deal yet, let alone the real deal. And history would show that teams needs some finals experience before cracking the big one. I reckon they are one mildly exertive pre-season camp away from falling apart again.
 
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jokershoppe

Tiger Superstar
Feb 17, 2008
2,064
393
Yes agree Melbourne can't do any more than they have this season. They completely outplayed us in round 6; we were chasing their tails from late in the first quarter and never looked like winning after that. However given their recent history I guess people won't trust them until they achieve something; like us in 2017.

That said the best time to play Richmond is in the first half of the season. We can be hot and cold and we're not wound up until after the bye. I'm confident that we will handle Melbourne if we meet them in the finals. Our best is too good for anyone as we have proven over the past 4 years. Hopefully we can be at or near our best when it counts.
49 rotations only for tigers,lowest since 2019 meant we couldn't win.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
5,093
5,947
Melbourne
I'd take Shai over Petracca. But, if I was Melbourne I would definitely have done the 7 year deal to keep Petracca. He is a great player. He needs to perform in finals but there's no reason to think he can't.

Melbourne are very good. I reckon we will learn a lot from that game, can't see them doing us like that again, but they are contenders.

It is a close competition, you can't take any game for granted and teams can move up quickly. Melbourne have shown signs in previous years but under-performed really.

DS
 
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123cups

Tiger Superstar
May 1, 2016
2,303
1,842
That said the best time to play Richmond is in the first half of the season. We can be hot and cold and we're not wound up until after the bye. I'm confident that we will handle Melbourne if we meet them in the finals. Our best is too good for anyone as we have proven over the past 4 years. Hopefully we can be at or near our best when it counts.

This would be my argument too, but it’s an appeal to the past as a prediction for the future.

Melbourne’s argument for the now has a lot of substance. They’ve got a core group of young, talented players who grew up together (like we did), under a long running coaching regime (Roos / Goodwin).

Their best player is just entering his prime and has signed long-term, while most of our best players are over 30.

They have the entire AFL world giving them disrespect even when they’re on top of the ladder (we know how that feels) and a very hungry supporter base on their last breath of hope (that’s how we felt on these forums during those 5 straight wins to start 2017)

Their players have been on a fairly consistent, upward trajectory for most of the past 7 years, not quite as good as us, but it’s a similar type of trend

Their players look very hungry, while we’ve been up and down this year after winning the 3 flags by 2020 that we planned for 10 years in advance

Our match vs them, their younger stars were the alphas and we didn’t do anything about it... I really hated seeing this, it was similar to Brisbane‘s young team last year.

2016 was an aberration for us in that we missed the finals. But we were there before and returned back in 2017. We were under the radar because during the off season we went feral. Focus on footy were making us a laughing stock and the all the media pundits piled into Dimma. But we had runs and experience on the board.

Melbourne:
2015 13th
2016 11th
2017 9th
2018 5th
2019 17th
2020 9th

Melbourne's aberration was 2018. I'm not convinced they are any deal yet, let alone the real deal. And history would show that teams needs some finals experience before cracking the big one. I reckon they are one mildly exertive pre-season camp away from falling apart again.

I hope you’re right, but I’m not sure their 2018 was an aberration. They’re on top now (with a young core), so I think 2019 may have been the aberration that sparked change. For 2020, well imagine if we went into lockdown in 2017? Melbourne‘s 7-year upward journey has had a single dip before shooting to the top.

Because of the dip, they shifted philosophy. Goodwin is now speaking like Dimma, regularly talking about connection, team defence, and total buy-in of roles. It’s a departure from the old Melbourne culture.

Are they still prone to crumble? Is it fair to expect? Role-oriented teams with excellent team defence are harder to break IMO, especially when they’re already battle hardened to media criticism after ~7 years together as a core group. Geelong expected us to crumble in 2017. Instead, they got Dusty’s fend off in the 3rd...

I’m hoping Melbourne finish on top and their players become full of themselves like Adelaide did in 2017 and Port did in 2020. Their club psychology from the top down is an A+ in my eyes right now. We’ll need to tap into something deep to overcome them.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,554
7,118
Good post cups, agree with all that.

Difference between us in 2017 and the Dees now is that there wasn't a Richmond-like side we had to beat.

They will have to go through us to win the flag.
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
38,831
8,665
I hope you’re right, but I’m not sure their 2018 was an aberration. They’re on top now (with a young core), so I think 2019 may have been the aberration that sparked change. For 2020, well imagine if we went into lockdown in 2017? Melbourne‘s 7-year upward journey has had a single dip before shooting to the top.

Demons have had 1 finals appearance in the last 6 years. They still have a core group of players they spat the dummy over the thought of doing a tough pre-season camp. This is the club that is so aware of their themselves that they release a "to hell and back" video of the pre-season predicting their return and failing miserably.

Have they suddenly come good and showing the promise they had in 2018? Maybe, maybe not. It's still too early in the season to make September calls, except for Collingwood.
 

The Mole

Tiger Superstar
Apr 1, 2003
2,101
392
Demons have had 1 finals appearance in the last 6 years. They still have a core group of players they spat the dummy over the thought of doing a tough pre-season camp. This is the club that is so aware of their themselves that they release a "to hell and back" video of the pre-season predicting their return and failing miserably.

Have they suddenly come good and showing the promise they had in 2018? Maybe, maybe not. It's still too early in the season to make September calls, except for Collingwood.
Yep. I for one think they are pretender. Fake it till you make it.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
5,093
5,947
Melbourne
When Melbourne did well in 2018 I thought they were good, but lacked a solid defence. We all know that finals are won in defence and I thought they were conceding too many points to really be competitive in September. This turned out to be correct, but at the time it was a good stepping stone for Melbourne.

They knew this weakness and their defence has improved a lot. This is where I reckon they have changed enough to be competitive. Time will tell and finals may find them out. It is also a long season but rising clubs tend to do well at the start of the season, we did in 2017.

You would have to say Melbourne are contenders at the moment, they are undefeated and going well. They will have to get past us to win it, and we don't tend to lose twice in a row to the same team so not so easy. If Melbourne have changed their ways they will understand that their quest for a flag may take more than one good year and continue to push this year and for a few more years.

I just hope we can get some more flags and stay ahead of them.

DS
 
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D85

///
Nov 22, 2004
3,029
196
coburg
I did a bit of work with the Dees in the season they did well, was a very close knit group, and I was impressed by Goodwin (and I've been inner sanctum at multiple clubs), but some areas I wasn't super sold on there in terms of personnel. Jim Plunkett is a hugely underrated part of that club. They were doing a lot of work on connection and team buy-in back then, but decided to change that approach and go with a different provider...

Burgess was a big get for them, always takes a season or two to see a change in the training effect, especially when they went in basically the opposite method to their previous High Performance Manager.

Don't think theyll go all the way, but definitely have the tools to go deep into September. Think a player like Oliver actually needs to step up as a leader for them to go all the way, and do a Cotchin in terms of career arc.
 
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