Palestine and Israel

[the next big thing]

Palestinians Brace for Israeli Invasion
The Associated Press
Tuesday, June 27, 2006; 7:19 AM


GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip -- Palestinian bulldozers on Tuesday blocked roads in northern Gaza with sand piles, bracing for an Israeli invasion after the recent abduction of an Israeli soldier.

"We are ready to confront any stupid act that the Zionists might commit," said Abu Obeida, spokesman for Hamas' military wing. "We are well-prepared and God willing, we are not going to welcome them with flowers."

Separately, the Islamic Jihad militant group called for a general mobilization of its fighters "in anticipation for the looming Zionist aggression." The group is believed to have several thousands armed members.

Israel has massed troops along the border following Sunday's abduction of Cpl. Gilad Shalit, who was seized by militants who infiltrated Israel through a tunnel.

On Monday, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert threatened to carry out a "broad and ongoing" offensive into Gaza. Israel has sent ground troops into Gaza just three times _ all for brief periods _ since pulling out of Gaza last September.

Palestinian militants released a statement Monday demanding the release of all female prisoners and Palestinian minors being held by Israel in exchange for information about Shalit.

Olmert has ruled out negotiations with militants and demanded Shalit's unconditional release.

Meanwhile, Israeli police said they were taking seriously reports that a Jewish settler was abducted by Palestinian militants in the West Bank.

Israel Radio quoted the man's relatives as saying he did not return home on Monday night. The report said the man had been hitchhiking.

In the Gaza Strip, a spokesman for the Popular Resistance Committees claimed his group had abducted the settler. The PRC was involved in Shalit's abduction.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/27/AR2006062700285.html

 

[Tigerfan]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

"We are well-prepared and God willing, we are not going to welcome them with flowers."

noooo, god forbid you'd try a peaceful approach

 

[Lidsand]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

sounds like an act of terrorism from a rebel state

 

[the next big thing]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

sounds like an act of terrorism from a rebel state

What Isreal the rebel state? I do not know so

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

I was watching the report on the ABC this evening, and was surprised to see one of my old school chums on the TV.
Yes, the Israeli Govt Spokesperson, Mark Regev, is/was a Melbourne boy.
I recall his father was a Melbourne University lecturer.
Mark left Melbourne & Australia not long after finishing school, almost 30 years ago.
Looks like he's kicked on & done well.

Hopefully the Israeli boy will be returned unhurt soon.

 

[Lidsand]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

sounds like an act of terrorism from a rebel state

What Isreal the rebel state? I do not know so

yes israel is the illegitimate state

 

[the next big thing]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

sounds like an act of terrorism from a rebel state

What Isreal the rebel state? I do not know so

yes israel is the illegitimate state

How is this so 

I think you need some help of what is a state

"A state is a set of institutions that possess the authority to make the rules that govern a society, having internal and external sovereignty over a definite territory." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State

I think Israel fit the bill here and it been state since is was proclaimed by the UN in 1948 and has Diplomatic recognition by the whole world

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Personally I hope that the Palestinians become a sovereign state and that both Israel & Palestine can live together as good neighbours.

I think this is a widely held view accepted by most people.

I was very upset for the Palestinians who were forceably thrown out of Jordan into Lebanon around 1974. I thought the Jordanians should have shown greater compassion for them, after all, they were Jordanian citizens. Unfortunately it had dire consequences for Lebanon, a country that hasn't yet recovered from both Palestinian & Syrian incursion. Mind you, Australia & other parts of the world have benefitted enormously by the Lebanese Christian migrants who have settled since.

Israel has never disputed the citizenship of Palestinians living in Israel. Palestinians have Israeli citizenship, can vote & can be elected.

I suspect much will depend on the Palestinian peoples' desire to take on the responsibilities, as well as the benefits, of sovereign statehood.

 

[Lidsand]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

sounds like an act of terrorism from a rebel state

What Isreal the rebel state? I do not know so

yes israel is the illegitimate state

How is this so 

I think you need some help of what is a state

"A state is a set of institutions that possess the authority to make the rules that govern a society, having internal and external sovereignty over a definite territory." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State

I think Israel fit the bill here and it been state since is was proclaimed by the UN in 1948 and has Diplomatic recognition by the whole world

i'm not sure many people at the time and even today agree in the way which israel was recognised.

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

It was recognised via a vote by the United Nations. It would be harder to find a more democratically commendable institution by which to establish statehood.

I recall that the Soviet Union was the first UN member to vote in favour of the establishment of the Israeli state.

History tells us of the 1,000s of Palestinians who were murdered by other Palestinians because they chose to support a peaceful co-existance with the new Israel.

Shame the killing of so many innocent people.

 

[Lidsand]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Shame the killing of so many innocent people.

its still going on.............

 

[Lidsand]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

the israeli bullies of the middle east are at it again

declaring the abduction of 2 israeli soldiers by hezbollah gurrrilas as an act of war by lebanon. they have began bombing southern lebanon by land and air.

*smile* idiots

 

[Lidsand]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

bombing civilian infrastructure overnight

this is something you dont see on channel 7, 9 and 10

http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2006/07/x_11.php

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

ISRAEL'S NEXT WAR HAS BEGUN.
Battle Plans
by Yossi Klein Halevi   
Only at TNR Online | Post date 07.12.06     
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w060710&s=halevi071206

The next Middle East war--Israel against genocidal Islamism--has begun. The first stage of the war started two weeks ago, with the Israeli incursion into Gaza in response to the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier and the ongoing shelling of Israeli towns and kibbutzim; now, with Hezbollah's latest attack, the war has spread to southern Lebanon. Ultimately, though, Israel's antagonists won't be Hamas and Hezbollah but their patrons, Iran and Syria. The war will go on for months, perhaps several years. There may be lulls in the fighting, perhaps even temporary agreements and prisoner exchanges. But those periods of calm will be mere respites.

The goals of the war should be the destruction of the Hamas regime and the dismantling of the Hezbollah infrastructure in southern Lebanon. Israel cannot coexist with Iranian proxies pressing in on its borders. In particular, allowing Hamas to remain in power--and to run the Palestinian educational system--will mean the end of hopes for Arab-Israeli reconciliation not only in this generation but in the next one too.

For the Israeli right, this is the moment of "We told you so." The fact that the kidnappings and missile attacks have come from southern Lebanon and Gaza--precisely the areas from which Israel has unilaterally withdrawn--is proof, for right-wingers, of the bankruptcy of unilateralism. Yet the right has always misunderstood the meaning of unilateral withdrawal. Those of us who have supported unilateralism didn't expect a quiet border in return for our withdrawal but simply the creation of a border from which we could more vigorously defend ourselves, with greater domestic consensus and international understanding. The anticipated outcome, then, wasn't an illusory peace but a more effective way to fight the war. The question wasn't whether Hamas or Hezbollah would forswear aggression but whether Israel would act with appropriate vigor to their continued aggression.

So it wasn't the rocket attacks that were a blow to the unilateralist camp, but rather Israel's tepid responses to those attacks. If unilateralists made a mistake, it was in believing our political leaders--including Ariel Sharon and Ehud Olmert--when they promised a policy of zero tolerance against any attacks emanating from Gaza after Israel's withdrawal. That policy was not implemented--until two weeks ago. Now, belatedly, the Olmert government is trying to regain something of its lost credibility, and that is the real meaning of this initial phase of the war, both in Gaza and in Lebanon.

Still, many in Israel believe that, even now, the government is acting with excessive restraint. One centrist friend of mine, an Olmert voter, said to me, "If we had assassinated [Hamas leader] Haniyeh after the first kidnapping, [Hezbollah leader] Nasrallah would have thought twice about ordering another kidnapping." Israel, then, isn't paying for the failure of unilateral withdrawal, but for the failure to fulfill its promise to seriously respond to provocations after withdrawal.

Absurdly, despite Israel's withdrawal to the international borders with Lebanon and Gaza, much of the international community still sees the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers as a legitimate act of war: Just as Israel holds Palestinian and Lebanese prisoners, so Hamas and Hezbollah now hold Israeli prisoners. One difference, though, is that inmates in Israeli jails receive visits from family and Red Cross representatives, while Israeli prisoners in Gaza and Lebanon disappear into oblivion. Like Israeli pilot Ron Arad, who was captured by Hezbollah 20 years ago, then sold to Iran, and whose fate has never been determined. That is one reason why Israelis are so maddened by the kidnapping of their soldiers.

Another reason is the nature of the crimes committed by the prisoners whose release is being demanded by Hezbollah and Hamas. One of them is Samir ar, a PLO terrorist who in 1979 broke into an apartment in the northern Israeli town of Nahariya, took a father and child hostage, and smashed the child's head against a rock. In the Palestinian Authority, ar is considered a hero, a role model for Palestinian children.

The ultimate threat, though, isn't Hezbollah or Hamas but Iran. And as Iran draws closer to nuclear capability--which the Israeli intelligence community believes could happen this year--an Israeli-Iranian showdown becomes increasingly likely. According to a very senior military source with whom I've spoken, Israel is still hoping that an international effort will stop a nuclear Iran; if that fails, then Israel is hoping for an American attack. But if the Bush administration is too weakened to take on Iran, then, as a last resort, Israel will have to act unilaterally. And, added the source, Israel has the operational capability to do so.

For Israelis, that is the worst scenario of all. Except, of course, the scenario of nuclear weapons in the hands of the patron state of Hezbollah and Hamas.


So you see, the real fear of Israelis is not the kidnapping of a soldier. It is the growing threat of an Iran that has no inhibitions of detonating a nuclear catastrophe and wiping out the entire state of Israel. As said before, if Palestinians wish to side with Iran, then they must accept that onus of state sovereignty, ie war. (Can't have your cake and eat it too.)

 

[Michael]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

It has always amazed me how we have all become some numb over the ongoing killing.

For as long as I can remember there hasn't been a week that goes by without some news story covering additional bombing and deaths between these two. Religion the root of all evil

 

[Lidsand]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

It has always amazed me how we have all become some numb over the ongoing killing.

For as long as I can remember there hasn't been a week that goes by without some news story covering additional bombing and deaths between these two.  Religion the root of all evil

its a strange one this time.

the 2 israeli soldiers taken were of druze faith whose roots are predominantly of arab decent. the druze have strong ties and the religion originated in syria but there are many druze in lebanon and israel. the majority of lebanese christians and muslims dont particularly like the lebanese druze. hezbollah align themselves politically with syria despite their withdrawal from lebanon. the majority of lebanese cant stand syria, hezbollah and their leader sheik nasrallah who unfortunately has a seat in the lebanese government. a lot of this stems from the assasination of former lebanese prime minister rafic hariri, who most lebanese blame syria for orchestrating his murder. a un inquiry into hariris death is underway.

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

As you can see, the Israeli govt cares deeply for any of its soldiers regardless of their religion. But as said before, the game currently at stake is much greater than what it was a few years ago. A genocidal Islamist govt. ie Iran, now not only poses a threat to Israel but to the rest of the world too.

Again, innocent people , some Palestinians & Israeli, become victims.

 

[Lidsand]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

As you can see, the Israeli govt cares deeply for any of its soldiers regardless of their religion. But as said before, the game currently at stake is much greater than what it was a few years ago. A genocidal Islamist govt. ie Iran, now not only poses a threat to Israel but to the rest of the world too.

Again, innocent people , some Palestinians & Israeli, become victims.

how does the kidnapping of israeli soldiers by militant hizbollah guerillas involve iran?

what are you getting at?

and how does a genocidal islamist nuclear prepared govt differ from the genocidal christian nuclear prepared US government? the yanks are not exactly showing good form on matters of war lately

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

As you can see, the Israeli govt cares deeply for any of its soldiers regardless of their religion. But as said before, the game currently at stake is much greater than what it was a few years ago. A genocidal Islamist govt. ie Iran, now not only poses a threat to Israel but to the rest of the world too.

Again, innocent people , some Palestinians & Israeli, become victims.

how does the kidnapping of israeli soldiers by militant hizbollah guerillas involve iran?

what are you getting at?

and how does a genocidal islamist nuclear prepared govt differ from the genocidal christian nuclear prepared US government? the yanks are not exactly showing good form on matters of war lately

refer to the article contained in reply 13.

 

[Lidsand]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

that article is speculative at the very least and full of self hating that motivates israelis ( after effects of events over 50 years ago) . the writer is drawing a pretty long bow with his accusations.

i dont trust anyone with nuclear weapons. not iran not nth korea not america. if america disarmed that would be setting some xample now wouldn't it . im sure some would follow the lead but while the US insist on being the global bullies them and their allies are best advised not to throw stones as they are living in glass houses