Pick 29: Shai Bolton

[Carter]

So your philosophical question is, if we trade Bolton out, screw those draft picks up by picking duds, then it doesn't matter, we still win out in the trade because we remain down the bottom for longer and get more chances at the best draft picks? Am I reading that right?

Yes.

The framework on the scenario is that Bolton is no value to the club in terms of being in our next flag team.

But IS immense value to a contending team.

Conversely, any prospective player within our projected window (5-15 years) DOES represent actual value to a club prioritising flags as the only currency worth thinking about.

This is beyond Bolton’s obvious aesthetic and intangible value to fans, etc.

 

[Coburgtiger]

Here is a philosophical conundrum for you :

IF our list manager decides Bolton is not playing in our next premiership team, are we actually giving up anything of value in trading him to another club?

In this context, ANY ND pick we receive in return is better value because the player(s) MIGHT play in our next premiership.

If these players are Ben Lennon and Jarryd Oakley-Nicholls, we have still come out ahead because our ladder position over the next five years is lower than it would’ve been with our marquee player, thus providing us with more chances to find elite youngsters.

Innit?

Talk about ridiculous statements.

I mean, it's philosophical, so I guess it's allowed to be.

But there are some crazy ideas to pick apart. First the idea that a footy club has no value outside of premierships.

It's very possible that we never see a premiership again. This is the nature of footy, particularly with the competition expanding. It might be one every 20 years, if you're lucky (and well run). You have to get value out of being a supporter without the season needing to end in a premiership. Going to the Sydney game this year was a brilliant experience, and I was singing all the way home (past a couple of pubs). You need to be able to go to games to see a competition. Being a bottom side is the only way to completely lose all value in a season.

Next the idea that being crap, picking up crap, and then being crap for longer so that we can pick up more crap, is somehow a good thing? I mean, seriously? That truly is the sad old drunk hanging out at crown at 4 in the morning, gambling away his train fare hoping it will finally come good on the last roll of the dice.

And, if we continue to follow all this philosophy through, we should legitimately trade out every single player we have over 18, and take every pick in the top 20. I mean, we get to spin the wheel as much as we want, and worst case scenario, we lose and we get to spin again! win win!

Innit!

 

[No 4]

Giving away our top players will deeply sadden supporters, create damage and will not attract good quality players.

Currently we are down due to injuries, Having them back and playing competitive football is high on my list. From this we can build.

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

Giving away our top players will deeply sadden supporters, create damage and will not attract good quality players.

Currently we are down due to injuries, Having them back and playing competitive football is high on my list. From this we can build.

100% we has half a team against Sydney and we beat them
Imagine with a full squad

 

[tigertim]

It's very possible that we never see a premiership again. This is the nature of footy, particularly with the competition expanding. It might be one every 20 years, if you're lucky (and well run).

I’m going a wee bit off topic here but this sentence got me brain farting about clubs premierships in an 18 year cycle.

The past 18 premierships have been won by only 8 clubs: Collingwood, Geelong, Melbourne, Richmond, WCE, Western Bulldogs, Hawthorn, Sydney. So for all the AFLs equalisation efforts it’s not truly successful. Let’s go back an open market!

Apologies. Carry on.

 

[Carter]

Talk about ridiculous statements.

I mean, it's philosophical, so I guess it's allowed to be.

But there are some crazy ideas to pick apart. First the idea that a footy club has no value outside of premierships.

It's very possible that we never see a premiership again. This is the nature of footy, particularly with the competition expanding. It might be one every 20 years, if you're lucky (and well run). You have to get value out of being a supporter without the season needing to end in a premiership. Going to the Sydney game this year was a brilliant experience, and I was singing all the way home (past a couple of pubs). You need to be able to go to games to see a competition. Being a bottom side is the only way to completely lose all value in a season.

Next the idea that being crap, picking up crap, and then being crap for longer so that we can pick up more crap, is somehow a good thing? I mean, seriously? That truly is the sad old drunk hanging out at crown at 4 in the morning, gambling away his train fare hoping it will finally come good on the last roll of the dice.

And, if we continue to follow all this philosophy through, we should legitimately trade out every single player we have over 18, and take every pick in the top 20. I mean, we get to spin the wheel as much as we want, and worst case scenario, we lose and we get to spin again! win win!

Innit!

Hyperbolic.

1) we still need an age spread, I recognise that. Bolton just happens to represent great value to other clubs, less for us right now. Business.

2) you are still under the laboured impression that we will recruit 42 Richard Lounders over the next ten years. I give the club more of a chance to pick up the pieces of the next premiership jigsaw

3) this is more personal taste, but all I care about is flags. I hated the Richo years.

 

[tiger76]

Carter 3962 Win. Other 3899 win. Other to serve. Longine clock to slap MacBeth typing monkeys. Poetry imminent. In cosmic perspective.

Hunter S. Dyer'ere has spoken.

This thread is now officially decadent and depraved.

 

[AngryAnt]

Still claiming Prestia as a successful first round draft pick Carts?

That's some creative draft accounting right there

 

[Smoking Aces]

Talk about ridiculous statements.

I mean, it's philosophical, so I guess it's allowed to be.

But there are some crazy ideas to pick apart. First the idea that a footy club has no value outside of premierships.

It's very possible that we never see a premiership again. This is the nature of footy, particularly with the competition expanding. It might be one every 20 years, if you're lucky (and well run). You have to get value out of being a supporter without the season needing to end in a premiership. Going to the Sydney game this year was a brilliant experience, and I was singing all the way home (past a couple of pubs). You need to be able to go to games to see a competition. Being a bottom side is the only way to completely lose all value in a season.

Next the idea that being crap, picking up crap, and then being crap for longer so that we can pick up more crap, is somehow a good thing? I mean, seriously? That truly is the sad old drunk hanging out at crown at 4 in the morning, gambling away his train fare hoping it will finally come good on the last roll of the dice.

And, if we continue to follow all this philosophy through, we should legitimately trade out every single player we have over 18, and take every pick in the top 20. I mean, we get to spin the wheel as much as we want, and worst case scenario, we lose and we get to spin again! win win!

Innit!

CT is owning this debate.

Sorry @Carter you have this all wrong. If we were to go down your path we would be rattling tins in a few years time.

 

[Brodders17]

Here is a philosophical conundrum for you :

IF our list manager decides Bolton is not playing in our next premiership team, are we actually giving up anything of value in trading him to another club?

In this context, ANY ND pick we receive in return is better value because the player(s) MIGHT play in our next premiership.

If these players are Ben Lennon and Jarryd Oakley-Nicholls, we have still come out ahead because our ladder position over the next five years is lower than it would’ve been with our marquee player, thus providing us with more chances to find elite youngsters.

Innit?

There is no reason to think Bolton wont play good football for another 7 years at least. I doubt any list manager would think their team can not contend for a premiership in the next 7 years.

 

[Carter]

CT is owning this debate.

Sorry @Carter you have this all wrong. If we were to go down your path we would be rattling tins in a few years time.

Well to be fair my proposal is quite drastic and easy to argue against.

Personally I don’t think the club would pull the trigger if a Freo or someone came knocking with a bag of goodies but stranger things have happened.

 

[AngryAnt]

The only way it would happen is if Shai really wanted to go home I reckon.

 

[Sintiger]

First the idea that a footy club has no value outside of premierships.

Leaving aside all the other discussion this is the thing that gets me.
Supporters of teams who aren’t contending still get joy out of seeing their champion players, the odd win because of them and hopefully the camaraderie of their fellow supporters whilst all that happening.
For many years we didn’t have much to hang our hat on except watching the Richo man. He never won a flag and hardly won a final but is a legend in our eyes. These are the things that make following a team great outside winning flags.
I just don’t think you get rid of unique stars like Shai Bolton. Think about the 10 year old kids who love watching him play.

 

[tigersnake]

The only way it would happen is if Shai really wanted to go home I reckon.

Yes, and that is a completely different discussion.

 

[TigerForce]

The only way it would happen is if Shai really wanted to go home I reckon.

Scary part to this is that he did mention in last week's presser that he's looking forward to playing WC at his home state in front of his whole family compared to just his son and wife over here. Read between the lines in that one a bit.

Been saying for many years, reduce the drafting of SA and WA players because of this.

 

[spook]

Scary part to this is that he did mention in last week's presser that he's looking forward to playing WC at his home state in front of his whole family compared to just his son and wife over here. Read between the lines in that one a bit.

Been saying for many years, reduce the drafting of SA and WA players because of this.

Who was the last WA player we lost going home? Peter Wilson?

 

[TigerForce]

Who was the last WA player we lost going home? Peter Wilson?

Yeah, Monteath was made captain but went home early. Horne-Francis a perfect example in SA and few others in the past for other teams. It's understandable they feel isolated far away from their family.

 

[RoarEmotion]

There is no reason to think Bolton wont play good football for another 7 years at least. I doubt any list manager would think their team can not contend for a premiership in the next 7 years.

What if Meehan is still in strength and conditioning?

 

[T-Shirt Tommy]

Carter 3962 Win. Other 3899 win. Other to serve. Longine clock to slap MacBeth typing monkeys. Poetry imminent. In cosmic perspective.

I'm not sure if this is the most beautiful thing I've read, or complete gibberish.

 

[RoarEmotion]

I'm not sure if this is the most beautiful thing I've read, or complete gibberish.

Or both.