SORRY-A 5 letter word thats made history | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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SORRY-A 5 letter word thats made history

How do you think Kevin's apology went today?

  • Kev did Australia proud.

    Votes: 34 68.0%
  • Should never have said sorry.

    Votes: 16 32.0%
  • Needed saying but could have worded it better.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    50
MCG said:
Congratulations to Kevin Rudd and the Australian Parliament on a great day. Can't believe some of the sentiments expressed here. Of course conditions in the aboriginal communities today are generally appalling but if you happened to actually listen to the speeches, today was an important step in a new beginning for aborigines. A bipartisan, consultative approach to improving conditions for aborigines is surely a worthwhile outcome from today's apology.

The first constructive post on this thread - besides the original post by Rosy.

Reading the posts on this thread reminded me of my professor at uni when he said there are three ways a message is provided

1. The way the message was said
2. The way the message was heard
3. The way the message was wanted to be heard

I would like to meet in person the negative posters on here - for they must have great insight into all matters concerning the political landscape of Australia. It would be a most enlightening experience.

Australians one and all must understand the issues of the past to be able to create the correct present and future for all Australians - the indigenous issue is but one that needs to be remembered - there are many others - but starting with our own people is a real good start IMO.

Lets us now put resources and whatever is necessary into improving the lives of our fellow Australians - by starting with the health and education of our Aboriginals - lets us not make the mistakes of our forefathers.
 
Mr Pumblechook said:
I'm not unfamiliar with problems in indigenous communities. Nor is the government, but most importantly, nor are the many representatives of indigenous communities who stood up and applauded the PM,s apology. Would they generously applaud him if, as you suggest, "the only outcome... more abuse".

Do you know better than they?

I'm not suggesting you haven't evidenced horrific circumstances amongst indigenous communities, however the link between the apology and more abuse is little more than fictitious speculation, based presumably on a preconceived bias - however developed.

I'd love to see things turn around & hope they do_Only time will tell!
 
I have to agree with ToO, Livers and TD here....The first step of saying 'sorry' seems the simple part of all of this. WHy couldnt previous governments have taken this action? Simply because its the second phase and beyond the saying sorry part that opens a major can of worms on the entire issue. Indeed the REAL focus SHOULD be on the conditions now....yes its fine to say sorry but is that truly going to change their living conditions, mentality on life and governments etc? Not sure.....to me KR looks a million bucks to everyone now as he has shown he is man enough to say sorry...huh...thats the easy part isnt it?........so why wasnt it done before?.....i believe it has something to do with the aftermath....Lets see what happens now - i have no idea what will occur but i have a feeling its not going to be pretty.
 
RemoteTiger said:
Lets us now put resources and whatever is necessary into improving the lives of our fellow Australians - by starting with the health and education of our Aboriginals - lets us not make the mistakes of our forefathers.

Sure Remote let's continue to do that by all means but the single biggest issue is now that the Government apology has been made, Aboriginals have to start helping themselves.

If as a community they can't/won't/don't do that then we'll always be at square 1.
 
tha8ball said:
I have to agree with ToO, Livers and TD here....The first step of saying 'sorry' seems the simple part of all of this. WHy couldnt previous governments have taken this action? Simply because its the second phase and beyond the saying sorry part that opens a major can of worms on the entire issue. Indeed the REAL focus SHOULD be on the conditions now....yes its fine to say sorry but is that truly going to change their living conditions, mentality on life and governments etc? Not sure.....to me KR looks a million bucks to everyone now as he has shown he is man enough to say sorry...huh...thats the easy part isnt it?........so why wasnt it done before?.....i believe it has something to do with the aftermath....Lets see what happens now - i have no idea what will occur but i have a feeling its not going to be pretty.
Agree
 
Saying sorry has no connection to guilt in a court of law. Therefore compensation doesnt necessarily follow. Individuals are able to take action for compensation if they wish, and that's always been their right.

This talk of the money/compo etc is belittling the importance of the day.
 
Six Pack said:
Saying sorry has no connection to guilt in a court of law. Therefore compensation doesnt necessarily follow. Individuals are able to take action for compensation if they wish, and that's always been their right.

This talk of the money/compo etc is belittling the importance of the day.
true ..great post Six Pack :clap
 
I'll make this my only post on this thread as it's an issue I'm emotive about and involved in daily in my work. I have read, studied and worked extensively in this area. I don't want to get into an online argument about it.

This is, obviously, my opinion only.

This is an historic and positive day for Australia. It's a first step - and the next ones will be more important and less ceremonial for sure. A recognition that we, as a nation and as governments, got it wrong. It's not just about why indigenous Australians were taken from their families, but about how they were treated in the steps afterwards. Again and like today, the next steps are the important ones. This is something the likes of Neil Mitchell are failing to see and is evident in his rants on Sunrise this morning. I'm often not a fan of Marion Scrymgour (NT Deputy Chief and Indig Affairs Minister) but as she put it, "There was no return roadmap for any of the Stolen Generations.". There was no plan to heal the families, but a systematic and legislated attempt to wipe out a race within 5-6 generations. The plan was total and permanent disconnection. That does damage to individuals, families, communities and society. It breeds disadvantage.

As for the word "sorry", we need to take a step back from our own definitions. "Whitefellas" see sorry as an admission of guilt, usually followed by retibution of some sort. In my opinion, this is why so many white Australians are unnecessarily pre-occupied with compensation, when any such claims will barely affect them personally at all. "Blackfellas" have a somewhat different view, where the word "sorry" recognises simply that something bad happened. As I've pointed out on the racial tolerance thread, we have funerals when somebody dies, they have "sorry business" to reflect the process of grieving and moving on. It's my fervent hope that this process, a process towards true reconciliation and the elimination of Aboriginal disadvatage, is not railroaded in the next step. It will be the responsibility of all Australians (particularly the parliament), regardless of indigenaiety, to ensure we direct conversations and policies towards futures where Aboriginal culture, history and societal place is seen as a valued and unique part of our own national identity. If we focus on the next step being about closing gaps on average ages at death, education, health and the bringing of opportunity to Aboriginal communities - and not just compensation - then we edge closer to reconciliation. To those who prefer to dwell on the compensation aspect, you yourselves keep that on the agenda and have a responsibility in contributing to the national conversation. Anyone who has sent the "I've got the heads up on Rudd's sorry speech ..." text message is doing just that and knows what I mean.

Apologies are not about what we say or how we say it. They are about how they are received. I applaud Rudd on clearly listening enough to the receivers to have this at the core of his speech. It's equally clear that Mr.Nelson missed that point with his comments about "good intentions" - and he wonders why his collaboration wasn't sought. It's a little like saying sorry to your sister for poking her in the eye because Mum told you to - and then mumbling that "she deserved it" when Mum wasn't listening. It makes anything else he said more hollow and insincere. He should have been savvy enough to realise this.

I hope that all the talk about whether or not we should say sorry can dissipate now. It has been done. The task of meaningfully tackling Aboriginal disadvantage is at hand and we've taken the first step in ensuring it isn't done by either white or black Australians - but both. For mine, that alone is worth celebrating. But we should never take our eyes off the road. There's a long way to go.

Just my 5c worth.
 
Six Pack said:
Saying sorry has no connection to guilt in a court of law. Therefore compensation doesnt necessarily follow. Individuals are able to take action for compensation if they wish, and that's always been their right.
This talk of the money/compo etc is belittling the importance of the day.

Really?
So why did Rudd need a team of lawyers to look over the wording before any apology was announced?

Tigers of Old said:
Sure Remote let's continue to do that by all means but the single biggest issue is now that the Government apology has been made, Aboriginals have to start helping themselves.
If as a community they can't/won't/don't do that then we'll always be at square 1.

Exactly.
"Sorry" has been muttered...so what is their excuse now?
They have their sorry...they live in a country where they are afforded the same rights as every other Australian.
No excuses for failing now.

hopper said:
I hope that all the talk about whether or not we should say sorry can dissipate now. It has been done. The task of meaningfully tackling Aboriginal disadvantage is at hand and we've taken the first step in ensuring it isn't done by either white or black Australians - but both. For mine, that alone is worth celebrating. But we should never take our eyes off the road. There's a long way to go.

Hopper, Congratulations on your post...but as we have seen with the young girl at Aurukun, she was raped under laws written by white AND black people.....white legislation under guidance from Aboriginal community leaders, under the guise of 'cultural identity'.
This has been happening for a long time now and who will say 'sorry' to these children...the future "unstolen generation"?
Are Aborigines going to apologise to their own race for the pressure they have put on Australian governments with such things as the 'stolen generation' that now have lead to rules and laws that allow Aboriginal children to be treated differently to any other Australian child?
This type of behaviour that has been rife in the past and a 'sorry' from the PM will not stop it now, and is something that certainly is not worth celebrating.
 
Six Pack said:
Saying sorry has no connection to guilt in a court of law. Therefore compensation doesnt necessarily follow. Individuals are able to take action for compensation if they wish, and that's always been their right.

This is the logical conclusion. Perhaps those screaming about compensation can inform us of the legislation that allows the substitution of a parliamentary apology for evidence, or a legal precedent.
 
I'm very proud of what Rudd has done today. Should of been done long ago. But let the government get stuck into the real issues of our indigenous people today as of now - it is obvious that the issues need to be addressed as a matter of priority.
 
Tubytiger said:
I'm very proud of what Rudd has done today. Should of been done long ago. But let the government get stuck into the real issues of our indigenous people today as of now - it is obvious that the issues need to be addressed as a matter of priority.

He has promised a "warchest" to fight the issues confronting the indigenous population.
 
mld said:
This is the logical conclusion. Perhaps those screaming about compensation can inform us of the legislation that allows the substitution of a parliamentary apology for evidence, or a legal precedent.

Well, I'll ask you the same question I have asked Sixpack.
If what you say is true, why did Rudd delay this apology until the lawyers looked over it?
If a simple apology cannot be used to grab a few $$$, then why are people like Mansell and other Aborigines (such as Dodson) already looking for loopholes to go for the cash?
 
the money the money the money!

Don't u ever open up yr mind to anything else, livers?
 
Liverpool said:
Well, I'll ask you the same question I have asked Sixpack.
If what you say is true, why did Rudd delay this apology until the lawyers looked over it?
If a simple apology cannot be used to grab a few $$$, then why are people like Mansell and other Aborigines (such as Dodson) already looking for loopholes to go for the cash?

Don't answer a question with a question.
 
A long awaited apology for the genocide, the stolen children and the suffering of generations of aboriginals. Congratulations to modern day Australia for apologising.

For Rudd the honeymoon is over, time for the real stuff and try to mange our country no to go into recession.

As for Wilson Tuckey, he is a low life with a sharp tongue, he should be given his marching orders, absolute appalling comments spoiling the celebrations.
 
I guess it would be difficult to lodge a parliamentary apology outside of parliament, t-rob.