Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Talking Politics

tigersnake said:
Don't disagree on the ALP jumping at shadows, that and the internal chaos brought them undone, but behind the scenes they were trying to patch up the 11 years of Howard nothing. Did nothing for 11 years, built nothing, did nothing. Gave money to people who didn't need it, introduced the GST, and melted down a few guns, thats it

he walked around in the dust at ground 0 with Dubya
 
The Libs were running too tight of a ship when it came to infrastructure thats agreed. Such a missed opportunity that we didn't have projects planned ahead by the Libs to spend on that would be the best use of all our money.

The ALP also didn't have a plan in regards to the infrastructure required as shown by the waste and mismanaged of the money the injected into the economy. Through this time the ALP added to the middle class welfare. And it adds to the perception that it was lucky that we had the cash in the bank under Howard.

National fast rail projects, national water plan over water, more education and training to the unemployed, more support to people with mental health issues. These are all examples of how we could have been smarter with our money. Lack of vision on both parts.

Snake you forgot to mention that Howard got our AAA credit rating back. Also in a 10 year period with investment in training they had the number of apprentices increase from 154,800 to 397,400. This along with the good policy of the GST, economic growth and unemployment are the positives.

Now waiting on a Government to crack down on family trusts. This needs to be the next thing reviewed in our tax structure. Business should trade under a company, partnership or sole trader only. We should not encourage a system where the well off who engage the best accountants and lawyers pay stuff all in tax.
 
Hugo said:
What % of people need to be earning it (the income) for it to be 'high'?

Less than 20% of individuals earn more than $80,000.

What income cap do you think the levy should start at?

Btw I think the levy is lazy policy and would prefer other options.

I don't know mate? To be honest I haven't been following it too closely just interested in how people see themselves and what the LNP might be saying about the workforce and society by setting the level at $80k. Wouldn't have affected me. Is it the number of people earning it or the "cost of living" including mortgage or some other measure that decides it?
 
MB78 said:
The Libs were running too tight of a ship when it came to infrastructure thats agreed. Such a missed opportunity that we didn't have projects planned ahead by the Libs to spend on that would be the best use of all our money.

The ALP also didn't have a plan in regards to the infrastructure required as shown by the waste and mismanaged of the money the injected into the economy. Through this time the ALP added to the middle class welfare. And it adds to the perception that it was lucky that we had the cash in the bank under Howard.

National fast rail projects, national water plan over water, more education and training to the unemployed, more support to people with mental health issues. These are all examples of how we could have been smarter with our money. Lack of vision on both parts.

Snake you forgot to mention that Howard got our AAA credit rating back. Also in a 10 year period with investment in training they had the number of apprentices increase from 154,800 to 397,400. This along with the good policy of the GST, economic growth and unemployment are the positives.

Now waiting on a Government to crack down on family trusts. This needs to be the next thing reviewed in our tax structure. Business should trade under a company, partnership or sole trader only. We should not encourage a system where the well off who engage the best accountants and lawyers pay stuff all in tax.

You're clutching at straws there re Howard acheivements. He could and should have set us up for the next 50 years

Agree 100% that the stimulius money could and should have been spent better, the $1000 handout out Howarded Howard, pathetic, and your ideas are worthy.
 
MB78 said:
Now waiting on a Government to crack down on family trusts.

been observing a pleasing sting in the tail of a family trust lately. when a trustee carks it, the scraps are hard for those left to get in their beaks. They've been tossed a tax-free dividend for 50 years, and then suddenly, the red tape binds up the capital, and 'I told him the The Trust was no good'.

Who come up with the name? Its a pretty &^%$#&-up misnomer. I hate 'em.

agree 78. take a hatchet to 'em.
 
tigersnake said:
the $1000 handout out Howarded Howard, pathetic, and your ideas are worthy.

I don't know about that, at least it wasn't implemented as a permanent payment like the family tax benefits were. Normalising of the payment is what leads to the sense of entitlement.
 
MB78 said:
....
Snake you forgot to mention that Howard got our AAA credit rating back.
...

Largely thanks to selling off billions of dollars worth of our assets.
 
mld said:
I don't know about that, at least it wasn't implemented as a permanent payment like the family tax benefits were. Normalising of the payment is what leads to the sense of entitlement.

Yep, 15K to buy a house, 2-5K for a kid, 2k for private health insurance, money for private schools to build dressage fields, huge insane tax cuts to millionaire 60+ people, theres more. Howard loved the welfare state, especially for those who are already faring very well.
 
MB78 said:
However I will give credit if they are making us all share the pain in getting us out of debt. I like the fact the pain is going to happen in the first budget. The ALP were never going to make the hard calls to get us out of debt.

Howard sold off the crown jewels to wipe out the debt, even 20 years later Telstra hasn't achieved it's second tranche price. Howard was lucky that he was in a position to flog off public assets at top dollar. On the other side of the ledger, he was also particularly wasteful with his welfare spending, I won't go as far as to call them bribes but cheques were being dished out to all and sundry (except single people of course). This is where Abbott's protestations about the handling of the GFC are particularly hypocritical.

"Australia's most needlessly wasteful spending took place under the John Howard-led Coalition government rather than under the Whitlam, Rudd or Gillard Labor governments, an international study has found.

The International Monetary Fund examined 200 years of government financial records across 55 leading economies.

It identifies only two periods of Australian "fiscal profligacy" in recent years, both during John Howard's term in office - in 2003 at the start of the mining boom and during his final years in office between 2005 and 2007."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/hey-big-spender-howard-the-king-of-the-loose-purse-strings-20130110-2cj32.html#ixzz30QAFLW4S
 
the budget audit released. A few 'good' things - family tax B scrapped, abbotts paid parent leave capped at $57K (still no means test, but at least Gina Rhineharts girls only get $57K and not $75K if anyones blind enough to impregnate them), Submarine Building Co sold off (I didnt even know I had a public share in a submarine manufacturer - I would have visited and gone for a spin)

And some real Barry crockers, but entirely predicatable - reign in Howards middle class cash splash by hitting the unemployed, black, disabled and lowest paid. Sell the Postie (stamps'll be a buck and the mail will only be delivered down the eastern seaboard). Plenty more too numerous to list.

I think, economically and socially speaking, we are a bit *smiled*
 
tigergollywog said:
the budget audit released. A few 'good' things - family tax B scrapped, abbotts paid parent leave capped at $57K (still no means test, but at least Gina Rhineharts girls only get $57K and not $75K if anyones blind enough to impregnate them), Submarine Building Co sold off (I didnt even know I had a public share in a submarine manufacturer - I would have visited and gone for a spin)

And some real Barry crockers, but entirely predicatable - reign in Howards middle class cash splash by hitting the unemployed, black, disabled and lowest paid. Sell the Postie (stamps'll be a buck and the mail will only be delivered down the eastern seaboard). Plenty more too numerous to list.

I think, economically and socially speaking, we are a bit *smiled*

And of course no mention of maintaining current revenue streams from the Mining & Carbon Tax. Welcome to Abbott's Australia, it will be slash and burn from now on. For those working in the public sector, I would be extremely worried, I suspect there will be no good news come May.
 
bullus_hit said:
And of course no mention of maintaining current revenue streams from the Mining & Carbon Tax. Welcome to Abbott's Australia, it will be slash and burn from now on. For those working in the public sector, I would be extremely worried, I suspect there will be no good news come May.

yep. Im feeling pretty smug about having a farm, a still and buried cash Bully. :hihi
 
tigergollywog said:
yep. Im feeling pretty smug about having a farm, a still and buried cash Bully. :hihi

A farm sounds good to me, lucky I'm out of the loop so none of this will effect me, but I feel for my family who either rely on the pension or work for the government.

Perhaps the biggest doozy of them all is forcing the unemployed to relocate after 12 months. So for the poor sods who have a house & kids, you better be prepared to move to Woop Woop and pick some fruit.
 
bullus_hit said:
A farm sounds good to me, lucky I'm out of the loop so none of this will effect me, but I feel for my family who either rely on the pension or work for the government.

Perhaps the biggest doozy of them all is forcing the unemployed to relocate after 12 months. So for the poor sods who have a house & kids, you better be prepared to move to Woop Woop and pick some fruit.

I hate being objective, but the dole relocate is for under 30's with no dependants.

Surely this budget will make 'em 1 term? including pensioners house in the assets test. isnt that alone political suicide?
 
tigergollywog said:
abbotts paid parent leave capped at $57K ,still no means test,

Mental. He doesn't want to stay in power. Annoyance over some people getting the NBN and most not is growing.

Now he's handing wealthy women big money in a time of alleged belt-tightening and cuts. The vast majority of Aussies are gunna think that's great
 
tigergollywog said:
I hate being objective, but the dole relocate is for under 30's with no dependants.

Surely this budget will make 'em 1 term? including pensioners house in the assets test. isnt that alone political suicide?

Fair enough, just saw it on the news so didn't delve into the fine print. It will still make for interesting times given there is a chronic youth unemployment problem. I wonder if that means moving interstate? I assume that most people of this age would be living at home too, it will certainly be a challenging situation, particularly with Australia's over inflated property prices.

As for Abbott's assault on pensioners, surely this won't wash well with the electorate. He's driving a knife straight through his heartland, and all this to appease his pandering lobbyists and financial backers. Can't have it both ways Tony, the magic pudding shenanigans were always going to come back and bite.
 
So it looks certain that those born after 1965 (such as I) will have to wait until 70 years of age to gain their super (pension), and as expected these governments are so one-dimensional without taking into account how difficult it is for people after 40+ to find employment (all thanks to these *smile* recruitment agencies)

Watch the surplus of financial hardship claims now, otherwise, we will have to invest heavily until we reach 70 from the day we retire from work or are made redundant. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised future governments will rise the age to 80 or 85.
 
Fact file: What Tony Abbott promised on tax
Updated Thu 1 May 2014, 11:08am AEST

When is a promise a promise? Prime Minister Tony Abbott is under pressure following reports the Government will include a "deficit levy" in this month's budget. The mooted plan is being interpreted as breaking a pre-election commitment not to raise taxes.

In an interview on Melbourne radio on April 29, Mr Abbott did not deny that the Government was considering such a levy.

"There's been speculation, as you know, about a deficit reduction levy. Certainly, my intention is that people like myself - high income earners - should bear a significant quantum of the burden when it comes to sorting out our problems," he said on 3AW.

"We want taxes going down, not going up. But, when you're in a difficult position, sometimes there needs to be some short-term pain for permanent and lasting gain."

Mr Abbott has long set a high standard when it comes to keeping promises. On August 22, 2011 he said: "It is an absolute principle of democracy that governments should not and must not say one thing before an election and do the opposite afterwards. Nothing could be more calculated to bring our democracy into disrepute and alienate the citizenry of Australia from their government than if governments were to establish by precedent that they could say one thing before an election and do the opposite afterwards."

"It is an absolute principle of democracy that governments should not and must not say one thing before an election and do the opposite afterwards."
Tony Abbott - August 22, 2011
What exactly did Mr Abbott say about new taxes, and when? ABC Fact Check takes a look at his statements from the last parliamentary term and during the 2013 election campaign.

'Lower, simpler, fairer taxes'

Mr Abbott focussed heavily on tax policy issues after failing to form minority government following the August 2010 election. Speaking in parliament on October 28, 2010 he said: "We stand for lower, simpler, fairer taxes, not great big new taxes that damage Australia's economy, not great big new taxes that are yet another hit on the cost of living of struggling Australian families."

On November 16, 2010 he said: "The Coalition will end the waste, repay the debt, stop the big new taxes and, above all else, stop the boats." Mr Abbott also repeated his "lower, simpler, fairer" statement.

During a speech on November 24, 2010, prompted by the third anniversary of Labor's 2007 election win, Mr Abbott again used the "lower, simpler, fairer" phrase and added: "We are Liberals who believe in smaller government, lower taxes, greater freedom."

Opposing the flood levy

"Why should the Australian people be hit with a levy to meet expenses which a competent, adult, prudent government should be able to cover from the ordinary revenues of government?"
Tony Abbott - February 10, 2011
In opposing a levy to pay for reconstruction after devastating floods in south-east Queensland in January 2011, Mr Abbott said: "Why should the Australian people be hit with a levy to meet expenses which a competent, adult, prudent government should be able to cover from the ordinary revenues of government?" In the same debate in parliament on February 10, 2011, he said: "The one thing that [people] will never have to suffer under a Coalition government is an unnecessary new tax, a tax that could easily be replaced by savings found from the budget."

On February 23 he said: "We honour the victims of the floods by being a competent parliament and a competent government. We do not honour them by imposing an unnecessary new tax."

Budget reply speeches

During his first budget reply of the 43rd parliament, on May 12, 2011, Mr Abbott said: "People can be confident that spending, debt and taxes will always be lower under a Coalition government because we have the record to prove it." In this speech the then opposition leader also repeated his call to reduce spending instead of imposing a levy to aid with the cost of flood reconstruction. "We have offered to work with the government... on finding savings instead of increasing taxes," he said.

In 2012, in Mr Abbott's budget reply on May 10 he said people who work hard should not be "hit with higher taxes".

In 2013, Mr Abbott's budget reply speech on May 16 focused on removing the carbon and mining taxes. "We want taxes that are lower, simpler and fairer and will take proposals for further tax reform to the following election," he said.

'No new tax collection without an election'

The debate over the introduction of a carbon price prompted many statements on the issue of new taxes.

On August 16, 2011 Mr Abbott said: "A very clear message is going out from the Australian people to this government: there can be no tax collection without an election. If this government had any honesty, any decency, that is what we would have: an election now." He made a similar statement at a rally outside Parliament House on the same day: "There is one fundamental message that we want to go out from this place to every nook and cranny of our country: There should be no new tax collection without an election."

On August 22, 2011, speaking to a motion calling for a plebiscite on the carbon tax, Mr Abbott returned to the theme. "I have often said, and members of this House will no doubt hear me say it again, there should be no new tax collection without an election," he said.

He said it a again in the debate over carbon pricing legislation on September 14, 2011. "I say to this Prime Minister: There should be no new tax collection without an election."

Other parliamentary debates

On November 23, 2011, during a censure motion, Mr Abbott said new taxes weakened economies. "This government thinks that somehow you can build prosperity with new taxes. No country ever got rich by increasing taxation. No country ever built a strong economy by clobbering itself with tax after tax after tax."

"No country ever got rich by increasing taxation. No country ever built a strong economy by clobbering itself with tax after tax after tax."
Tony Abbott - November 23, 2011
And again marking the anniversary of Labor's 2007 election win on November 24, 2011, he said: "Our objective can be stated quite simply and quite clearly. It is lower taxes, better services, more opportunities to work and, above all else, stronger borders."

During a debate on September 19, 2012, he said: "The time for big-spending, big-taxing, big-fibbing government has gone. We will give the Australian people the decent government they deserve."

Tax cuts, not new taxes

At a doorstop interview at Canberra company Pure Solar on March 14, 2012 Mr Abbott said the Coalition would deliver tax cuts in government. "What you'll get under us are tax cuts without new taxes," he said

"What you'll get under us are tax cuts without new taxes."
Tony Abbott - March 14, 2012
The 2013 campaign

The Coalition's key election policy document "Real Solutions" said: "We pledge to the families of Australia that we will never make your lives harder by imposing unnecessary new taxes."

Fact Check looked through the transcripts of the then opposition leader's campaign appearances and doorstop interviews and found the following statements.

On August 5, during an interview on Seven's Sunrise program:

David Koch: "Okay, so how do you get the budget back into surplus without putting up taxes?"
Mr Abbott: "By sensible expenditure restraint."
On August 6, at a doorstop: "Taxes will always be lower under a Coalition government."

On August 9, at a Brisbane press conference: "The only party which is going to increase taxes after the election is the Labor Party."

"The only party which is going to increase taxes after the election is the Labor Party."
Tony Abbott - August 9, 2013
On August 11, at a press conference at Sydney's Bondi Beach:

Question: "Mr Abbott, Julie Bishop said on TV that... you would have to do both raising taxes and cutting spending to bring the budget back to black. What taxes do you propose to raise?"
Mr Abbott: "The only party that will raise taxes after the election is the Labor Party."
On August 15 at a press conference in Tasmania: "I am determined not to increase the overall tax burden. I am absolutely determined not to increase the overall tax burden on anyone."

And that night, in an interview with ABC 7.30 he said it again.

Leigh Sales: "Given the magnitude of the challenge, to be honest with the Australian people you'd have to say, 'We're looking at substantial either cuts to spending or increases to taxes'?"
Mr Abbott: "There will be no overall increase in the tax burden whatsoever."
At a press conference in Western Australia on August 17, he returned to the theme: "Now I say the tax burden isn't going to increase. Well, we are going to abolish the carbon tax, abolish the mining tax, we will reduce the company tax – of course the overall tax burden is going to go down."

Talking about a Coalition proposal to impose a levy on big business to fund a paid parental leave scheme, Mr Abbott said during a press conference on August 18: "I want to make it absolutely crystal clear that our objective when the fiscal circumstances are right, is to lower all taxes. We want to lower all taxes. We really are the party of lower, simpler, fairer taxes – look at our record in government."

"The Coalition believes in lower, simpler, fairer taxes, it is in our DNA, but we have got to get the budgetary position under control and the trouble is that this Government has got a budget emergency on its hands."
Tony Abbott - August 18, 2013
The same day on Meet the Press, Mr Abbott referred to budgetary constraints: "Well, I would love to get all tax rates down. I would love to [get the] company tax rate down further; I'd love to get the personal tax rate down further. The Coalition believes in lower, simpler, fairer taxes, it is in our DNA, but we have got to get the budgetary position under control and the trouble is that this Government has got a budget emergency on its hands."

On August 19, Mr Abbott talked about cutting "unnecessary taxes" during a radio interview. "We'll build a stronger economy so that everyone can get ahead, and part of building a stronger economy is cutting unnecessary taxes, abolishing unnecessary taxes," he said.

In an address to the National Press Club on September 2, Mr Abbott said that in three years' time, "because taxes will be lower and regulation reduced, economic growth should be stronger" if the Coalition was elected.

On September 5, during a doorstop in Victoria, he said: "Right now the best thing we can do for our country and ultimately the best thing we can do for people around the world is to strengthen our economy and that means cutting taxes, building the infrastructure of the future, because if tax is lower and infrastructure is better our economy will be more productive and a strong Australia is going to be a much better international citizen than an Australia which can't really pay its way."

The same day during a Brisbane press conference, he said: "Economic policy will be geared towards stronger economic growth than it currently is. If you reduce taxes, if you reduce regulation, if you increase productivity, you will get stronger economic growth."

Link and sources
 
TigerForce said:
So it looks certain that those born after 1965 (such as I) will have to wait until 70 years of age to gain their super (pension), and as expected these governments are so one-dimensional without taking into account how difficult it is for people after 40+ to find employment (all thanks to these *smile* recruitment agencies)

Watch the surplus of financial hardship claims now, otherwise, we will have to invest heavily until we reach 70 from the day we retire from work or are made redundant. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised future governments will rise the age to 80 or 85.

My father is as fit as a Malee Bull, he's over 70 and still has a razor sharp mind. Can he get a look in? Nope, 45 years of teaching experience yet he's considered too grey & an unworthy long term investment. He relies solely on the pension now and is struggling to make ends meet, he's in public housing which entails living in a dog box & struggles to even run a car. It's all good and well for the government to tell the public to keep working but you have to be proactive on the supply side and give the old folk some sort of opportunity. Slashing public programs is a retrograde step too, I notice that the audit was all about cutting spending on R&D and the like. This is a massive cop out, I couldn't even find one initiative which focused on job creation, it was almost like the whole 'crisis' was solely about spending.

Memo to the LNP, revenue, revenue, revenue. Build, innovate, show some goddam creativity and promote Australia as a 21st century mover & shaker. Instead we have a bunch of lobbyists protecting their own interests and offering nothing in the way of fresh ideas for the future. The top 1% come out relatively unscathed but is this a great surprise? Most of those navigating the pain train are from this very privileged group, seems like a case of clear self interest to me. Abbott's Australia is looking very bleak indeed.