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Talking Politics
- Thread starter Legends of 2017
- Start date
K3 said:
Yes I have. And I have also read a fair number of hadiths and parts of the biographies of the prophet. Also made a point of watching and studying Islam in practice where they are the majority - how much free speech there is in those countries, the status of women, of religious minorities, of gay people both culturally and before the law etc. Again Islam is to religion what Nazism is to politics.
KnightersRevenge said:
Perhaps they are reading it 'wrong' and have chosen to ignore the violence and intolerance that is endemic in it, or perhaps they are not terribly religious, or perhaps (no offense intended) you think more highly of them than they privately think of you. I don't know. I do know that their religion is demonstratively misogynistic, violent and intolerant (as was the prophet that founded it) both theologically and in practice in nearly all the countries it dominates (although I admit to varying degrees). I know that no other minority represents the dangers of terrorism like Islam does, both at home and abroad. And I know no other minority would destroy as systematically and completely the freedoms and liberties that we take for granted if it were to god forbid become the dominant religion in this country. Individuals do vary, but Islam as a whole is a poisonous admixture to our body politic. There is no other relgion that comes close to it, it's simply not compatible with Western values.
As a footnote. Could I be ever a friend with a Muslim? I'd have to say no. For the same reason if I were a Jew I could never be a friend of a Nazi, or if I was black person a friend with a Klansman. Even if he didn't take it seriously I'd still want to know how can he claim to be a friend of mine when he belongs to a religion that demands in it's text my subjugation and failing that destruction and that calls me a vile animal. If he is religious and goes to the Hajj, I'd also want to know how he could go casually go to a country that punishes by death conversion to my religion and expect me to be comfortable with that when he comes back (again to use the Jewish example, it would be like being a Jew and having a friend that holidays in Nazi Germany).
Anyhow, will check on this debate again late this week or early next. I'm sure our Islamic 'friends' both at home and abroad will still be in the news..
Tygrys said:
Head in the sand? Equating 1 billion muslims with a fringe group of white supremacists illustrates your inherent narrow mindedness. As for the Hampson cheap shot, leave that for the football forum, if you can manage that.
Wow! From the way you write you obviously have a reasonable level of intelligence, which makes it so hard to accept that you could take this stance.Tygrys said:
Even accepting (which I don't) your assertion that Islam is an evil religion, or rather, is the only evil religion, would you really draw a categorical line through all Muslims? What about non-practising ones? You know, like the all the atheists that still still go to mass on Christmas eve and don't eat meat on Good Friday because they don't want to upset their Nanna and still tick Christian on the census out of habit or guilt. What if you didn't know your mate was a Muslim until he says, "sorry mate, I was hanging out for this boys trip but I forgot Ramadan starts on Monday and I can't be bothered with all the family politics if I'm hungover again like I was last year...what, didn't you know I was brought up Muslim..? Yeah, that's how I know Zelco...we went best mates at primary school before the troubles in Bosnia".
Does this guy get dumped? Do you still hang out with Zelco, the Croat?
Tygrys said:
Individuals can be intelligent Tyg, people are stupid. But you lump the individuals with the religion as an over-arching idea. That I don't think is reasonable. Yes Islam is destructive if read literally. So is Judaism and by extension Christianity. So are many things. But that doesn't mean individuals who were raised within a certain faith through no choice of their own are inherently evil. That is a very strange way to see the world IMO. The U.S. of A. are the only people in the history of humanity to intentionally release the nuclear bomb and have routinely invaded other countries necessarily killing tens of thousands of civilians. Should I paint all Americans as members of a death cult?
The habit of thinking that the world can be described in black and white, and that you can make "good" decisions thinking in that way seems flawed to me. The idea that you couldn't have a muslim friend is pretty sad. If I thought that way I would have just lost my best mate. One of the most loyal and kind and dependable people I know. He has a major flaw...he is a Bombers supporter. Now he doesn't practice his religion in the manner of a zealot, but then few of the muslims I know do though most try a bit harder than he does. If you met him you certainly wouldn't be able to tell but if you asked him his answer would be automatic...yes I am a muslim. It is cultural as well as religious. A high percentage of American Jews are functionally atheist, they don't observe in any real sense but their association with Judaism is cultural. It is possible to seperate the human from their religion without sacrificing culture. And so to be a muslim does not mean you are a blood thirsty follower of Mohammed. It just means you were either born into an islamic family or born in an islamic area or country. Your humanity is the thing that matters.
I am living in Ireland, one of the Vatican's "success" stories. An entire country completely given over to the Catholic Church (Poland and large parts of South America can lay claim to the same ignominious "honour"). Now I know very few people that I would call "practicing Catholics" here. But most of the cultural observances remain. They are habits passed down through the generations that seem almost divorced from all meaning. Again the people are seperate from the religion. Abortion is illegal here, and the Catholic Church used its political clout to have it constitutionally prohibited! But 10s of 1000s of abortions are carried out on Irish citizens, mostly in English hospitals. Their religious connections do not make them slaves to the book or the zealots any more than I would have anything to fear from my best mate if a cleric told him to kill me. His humanity is why he is my best mate.
I am living in Ireland, one of the Vatican's "success" stories. An entire country completely given over to the Catholic Church (Poland and large parts of South America can lay claim to the same ignominious "honour"). Now I know very few people that I would call "practicing Catholics" here. But most of the cultural observances remain. They are habits passed down through the generations that seem almost divorced from all meaning. Again the people are seperate from the religion. Abortion is illegal here, and the Catholic Church used its political clout to have it constitutionally prohibited! But 10s of 1000s of abortions are carried out on Irish citizens, mostly in English hospitals. Their religious connections do not make them slaves to the book or the zealots any more than I would have anything to fear from my best mate if a cleric told him to kill me. His humanity is why he is my best mate.
It is almost a shame that I couldn't be bothered tallying up the *smile* weak efforts of our new Govt...
Refugee deal triggers awkward moment for Scott Morrison in Cambodia
Date September 26, 2014 - 9:42PM
Lindsay Murdoch
South-East Asia correspondent for Fairfax Media
Cambodia deal: what it means for refugees
Phnom Penh: The behaviour of Australia's Immigration Minister Scott Morrison in the Cambodian capital late on Friday was a diplomatic embarrassment.
Mr Morrison walked 20 minutes late into a ceremony to sign an agreement for Australia to send its unwanted refugees to one of the world's poorest and most corrupt nations.
The proceedings started when aides crashed a tray of champagne glasses and went downhill from there.
After inking the agreement that has provoked a storm of criticism, Mr Morrison stood and clinked champagne glasses with Cambodia's Interior Minister Sar Kheng, as it became clear to journalists corralled behind rope barriers that neither intended to explain anything about the agreement or to answer questions.
"What about the $40 million pay-off (to Cambodia)," a journalist shouted.
Mr Morrison ignored growing heckling while pretending to toast a line of generals and unidentified VIPs on stage whose share of the bubbly had crashed to the floor.
Neither Mr Morrison nor Mr Sar Kheng said a word during their five minute appearance.
They walked out together, leaving Cambodian journalists gobsmacked.
Cambodian officials admitted when Mr Morrison's convoy had returned to the luxurious Raffles Hotel Le Royal that Mr Sar Kheng had intended to hold a press conference to inform Cambodians about the agreement but called it off at the last moment, apparently at Australia's request.
For months the Abbott government has refused to publicly reveal any detail about the agreement.
Mr Morrison's office only confirmed he was travelling to Cambodia on Friday after his visit was announced by Cambodia's Foreign Ministry.
Cambodian and foreign journalists alike left the ceremony with their questions unanswered.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/refugee-deal-triggers-awkward-moment-for-scott-morrison-in-cambodia-20140926-10mux0.html#ixzz3EQWUS5vJ
Refugee deal triggers awkward moment for Scott Morrison in Cambodia
Date September 26, 2014 - 9:42PM
Lindsay Murdoch
South-East Asia correspondent for Fairfax Media
Cambodia deal: what it means for refugees
Phnom Penh: The behaviour of Australia's Immigration Minister Scott Morrison in the Cambodian capital late on Friday was a diplomatic embarrassment.
Mr Morrison walked 20 minutes late into a ceremony to sign an agreement for Australia to send its unwanted refugees to one of the world's poorest and most corrupt nations.
The proceedings started when aides crashed a tray of champagne glasses and went downhill from there.
After inking the agreement that has provoked a storm of criticism, Mr Morrison stood and clinked champagne glasses with Cambodia's Interior Minister Sar Kheng, as it became clear to journalists corralled behind rope barriers that neither intended to explain anything about the agreement or to answer questions.
"What about the $40 million pay-off (to Cambodia)," a journalist shouted.
Mr Morrison ignored growing heckling while pretending to toast a line of generals and unidentified VIPs on stage whose share of the bubbly had crashed to the floor.
Neither Mr Morrison nor Mr Sar Kheng said a word during their five minute appearance.
They walked out together, leaving Cambodian journalists gobsmacked.
Cambodian officials admitted when Mr Morrison's convoy had returned to the luxurious Raffles Hotel Le Royal that Mr Sar Kheng had intended to hold a press conference to inform Cambodians about the agreement but called it off at the last moment, apparently at Australia's request.
For months the Abbott government has refused to publicly reveal any detail about the agreement.
Mr Morrison's office only confirmed he was travelling to Cambodia on Friday after his visit was announced by Cambodia's Foreign Ministry.
Cambodian and foreign journalists alike left the ceremony with their questions unanswered.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/refugee-deal-triggers-awkward-moment-for-scott-morrison-in-cambodia-20140926-10mux0.html#ixzz3EQWUS5vJ
The latest interesting quote comes from one of the big muckas in Cambodia, while I don't have a link I read that he said Cambodia is interested in taking "4 or 5 asylum seekers from Australia" in the next year.
What the...?
Why the...?
How much the...?
What the...?
Why the...?
How much the...?
The Cambodian deal...
Nothing much can be said really apart from I am ashamed to be a citizen of a country so devoid of human decency to put such a deal together.
The refugees who go there will live in poverty , separated from the buddhist khmer speaking population, will not have access to proper health, education or employment and the $40 million will go into the pockets of the corrupt Hun Sen Government and his cronies.
The real shame is that our Government doesn't care because they have stopped the boats.
Nothing much can be said really apart from I am ashamed to be a citizen of a country so devoid of human decency to put such a deal together.
The refugees who go there will live in poverty , separated from the buddhist khmer speaking population, will not have access to proper health, education or employment and the $40 million will go into the pockets of the corrupt Hun Sen Government and his cronies.
The real shame is that our Government doesn't care because they have stopped the boats.
spook said:
Are you considering dropping the "psuedo", spook? It didn't turn out well for "echo".
spook said:
And that sort of talk will attract the eyes of ASIO to PRE.
We live in a democracy and at the last election the people voted the Abbott Government in - we are getting what we voted for and some.
The problem is the Opposition are not an alternative government and appear a long way off looking like an alternative government.
Sintiger said:
I'm just disgusted. And sickened by Absolutley every little thing this government stand for ....my god Julie bishop lead the defensive to ensure James hardie paid next to no compensation to all the Australians their asbestos killed...sums up the evilness if abbot and co....Aussie Aussie Aussie shame shame shame
And Morrison and Payne are borderline psychopaths and destroying systematically everything decent about Australia .
Who voted for them.....?
Julia ,at least had her heart and morals Ndy desires always in the right place
RemoteTiger said:
We are getting what 'we' voted for in some areas such as refugees. At the least the libs were clear before the election they would trample human rights and have no regard for decency in their efforts to demonise refugees.
In other areas such as health, education and the ABC we not getting what 'we' voted for as Abbott and the rest are blatantly breaking promises and betraying the trust of the voters.
K3 said:
Except the ones referring to the Gonski reforms and no cuts to education. Lying is now commonplace with LNP ministers, the adults sure are in charge now.
bullus_hit said:
in fairness to Christopher, I think he said they did not have any policy relating to massive fee increases, and interest increases on repayments.
so they are not breaking any promises with uni fees increases. they just didnt tell anyone they were going to do it.