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Talking Politics
- Thread starter Legends of 2017
- Start date
One thing about Australian politics, there's always a Latham or an Abbott somewhere, ready to come to the fore and lead our wonderful nation.
Chiang Mai Tiger said:
Lucky for them we don't have a no *smile* heads policy then. There would be quite a few looking for a different vocation.
KnightersRevenge said:
A lot of people are saying it. It ain't new. The shift to a renewable, low energy, efficient energy using economy is the next big thing. Just like the move to cars from horses in the 1920s, the explosion of computers. All signs point to that.
But we have a government, (sections of the ALP are guilty of it too), that is saying 'nay, horses, blacksmiths and farriers (coal) are the way forward'. Its happening for 1 main reason, culture, both political and national. We still see mining as being the main game, the only game even. Donations from hydrocarbon companies to political parties is only part of how that plays out.
The governments extremist ideological position on citizen intervention/ oversight into big development projects illustrates this beyond doubt, (for those that had any doubts that is).
On the one hand we have the government trying to shut down laws that enable citizens to ensure that legal processes are adhered to, the case of the Adani coal mine. All this was was an environmaltal group proving that the approval was rushed and process was sidestepped. If the mine was viable, it would still go ahead, it would just take some extra admin from the government, ie, doing their job properly. But the government decides to get out the sledgehammer to crack a walnut, 'evil greenies stopping good coal mines, green tape etc' (one persons green tape is anothers laws that ensure big companies doen't trash the environment too much remember. Putting aside the fact the mine is economically marginal and banks are deserting it, and that the coal being mined will be hauled to India and burned contributing to climate change, the injunction was based on reasoned logical argeument based on evidence about LOCAL environmental impact.
On the other hand we have the Government making laws to increase 'green tape' so wind developments can be stopped. They don't call it green tape though, its laws enabling brave citizens to intervene against evil companies who ride roughshod over nice communities. 'Brave aussie battler' laws if you like. However these interventions are to enable looser interpretations of science, because there is no scientific evidence of impacts.
So on the one hand, shut down citizen oversight of coal mine compliance with environmental laws based on scientific evidence.
On the other, create laws for citizens oversight of wind farms compliance with environmental laws without any scientific evidence.
You can't make this stuff up. Its Simpson's-esque.
mld said:
Agree.
There's up to a million people watching and several tweets are hardly representative of the majority opinions.
They're misleading.
mld said:
agree. Too many smart arsey and annoying ones. Trying to impress with wit rather than make a point or an argument. Not that I watch the show, I find the format of wheeling out a Labor and an LNP means political point scoring dominates and discussion suffers. They can be good when they depart from that and have no politicians, but I'm out of the routine of watching it so I miss it anyway.
When the opinion polls are getting low, bomb the crap out of someone (but get someone else to invite us to do it). The Abbott govt really is filth.
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Tony Abbott pushed for US request to join Syria air strikes
Tony Abbott confirms Australia has been asked to join US air strikes in Syria while former Labor Foreign Minister Bob Carr argues Australia has a 'moral obligation' to become involved.
The Abbott government pushed for Washington to request that Australia expand its air strikes against the Islamic State terror group from Iraq to its more dangerous neighbour Syria, Fairfax Media has learnt.
Tony Abbott confirmed on Tuesday that "some weeks ago" US President Barack Obama had asked him to consider expanding RAAF strikes to Syria.
But senior government sources have told Fairfax Media that the driving force for the formal request received last week from the United States for the RAAF to join the air campaign in Syria came more from Canberra – and in particular the Prime Minister's office – than from Washington.
Visiting remote Indigenous communities in the Northern Territory, Mr Abbott said the government was still considering the request but expected to make a decision within the next week.
"I had a request from President Obama some weeks ago to consider strikes into Syria," Mr Abbott said. "After that, I asked our military officials to talk to the Pentagon and in the wake of those conversations, a formal request for Australian involvement in air strikes in Syria has come. We'll consider this and we'll make a decision in the next week or so."
Prime Minister Tony Abbott's renewed focus on the war on terror will do no harm in the Canning byelection.
Mr Abbott and Mr Obama are understood to have discussed the possibility of Australian air strikes in Syria during a telephone call in July initiated by Mr Abbott who had rung his American counterpart to offer sympathies over the Chattanooga shootings.
Government sources say it was Mr Obama who raised Syria as a topic and then made the first suggestion of Australia's expanded role.
But it is widely known in government circles that Mr Abbott has long been keen to do more in the fight against the Islamic State, which has taken swaths of territory stretching across Syria and Iraq and established affiliates in Libya, Egypt and Saudi Arabia.
Fairfax Media asked Defence Minister Kevin Andrews who initiated the discussion about possible Australian air strikes in Syria and whether the US request came without Canberra's prompting.
A spokesman for Mr Andrews said: "As the PM has said today, this was first raised with him by the President of the United States.
"Now that the US Secretary of Defence has asked Australia to consider extending its current counter-Daesh air operations into Syria, the government will consider this request in the normal way, and in close consultation with our coalition partners."
Syria is far more complex than Iraq because there is a full-blown civil war being waged and any diminution of Islamic State's power will benefit the dictator Bashar al-Assad, whose rule the West opposes. Meanwhile, Russia, Turkey and Iran are all pursuing their own interests regarding Syria.
The US, Canada and several Arab countries are already carrying out air strikes against the Islamic State in Syria.
Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor had received an "initial briefing" from the government on Monday but stressed "we're not going to rush into this".
The Chief of Joint Operations for the Australian Defence Force, David Johnston, last week said any Australian involvement would "not be a game changer" in Syria. Australia is currently carrying out regular strikes in Iraq.
Peter Leahy, the former chief of army and now head of Canberra University's National Security Institute, said he had "no objection" to expanding strikes to Syria but said the coalition needed a better plan for Syria and the whole region to defeat extremism.
"We are following the US, which has no clear conception of what victory looks like," he said.
Peter Jennings, executive director of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, agreed a better overall plan was needed but said extending air strikes into Syria was justified.
"The argument for it is that we'll never defeat IS unless we're able to target their leadership and that means being prepared to engage in more aggressive air strikes against is targets in al-Raqqa," he said.
He said this meant a higher risk to Australian personnel, as the case of the downed Jordanian pilot who was burnt to death in a cage by Islamic State showed in February.
Former top defence bureaucrat Allan Behm said Australia's expanded role into Syria would probably have little impact.
Mr Behm said the US-led air-only campaign was "a sideshow" because at best it could achieve a temporary gain, taking up time before it was realised that the only lasting solution in the war-torn region would be some form of negotiated settlement.
Former Australian Army general John Cantwell, who led Australia's forces in Afghanistan, said it was puzzling why the expansion had been sought, because there were few "viable" military targets.
"More flexibility is good in a general sense, [but] mission focus carries greater weight," he said.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-pushed-for-us-request-to-join-syrian-air-strikes-20150825-gj7kfh.html#ixzz3jsXjiJ9n
-------------------------------------------
Tony Abbott pushed for US request to join Syria air strikes
Tony Abbott confirms Australia has been asked to join US air strikes in Syria while former Labor Foreign Minister Bob Carr argues Australia has a 'moral obligation' to become involved.
The Abbott government pushed for Washington to request that Australia expand its air strikes against the Islamic State terror group from Iraq to its more dangerous neighbour Syria, Fairfax Media has learnt.
Tony Abbott confirmed on Tuesday that "some weeks ago" US President Barack Obama had asked him to consider expanding RAAF strikes to Syria.
But senior government sources have told Fairfax Media that the driving force for the formal request received last week from the United States for the RAAF to join the air campaign in Syria came more from Canberra – and in particular the Prime Minister's office – than from Washington.
Visiting remote Indigenous communities in the Northern Territory, Mr Abbott said the government was still considering the request but expected to make a decision within the next week.
"I had a request from President Obama some weeks ago to consider strikes into Syria," Mr Abbott said. "After that, I asked our military officials to talk to the Pentagon and in the wake of those conversations, a formal request for Australian involvement in air strikes in Syria has come. We'll consider this and we'll make a decision in the next week or so."
Prime Minister Tony Abbott's renewed focus on the war on terror will do no harm in the Canning byelection.
Mr Abbott and Mr Obama are understood to have discussed the possibility of Australian air strikes in Syria during a telephone call in July initiated by Mr Abbott who had rung his American counterpart to offer sympathies over the Chattanooga shootings.
Government sources say it was Mr Obama who raised Syria as a topic and then made the first suggestion of Australia's expanded role.
But it is widely known in government circles that Mr Abbott has long been keen to do more in the fight against the Islamic State, which has taken swaths of territory stretching across Syria and Iraq and established affiliates in Libya, Egypt and Saudi Arabia.
Fairfax Media asked Defence Minister Kevin Andrews who initiated the discussion about possible Australian air strikes in Syria and whether the US request came without Canberra's prompting.
A spokesman for Mr Andrews said: "As the PM has said today, this was first raised with him by the President of the United States.
"Now that the US Secretary of Defence has asked Australia to consider extending its current counter-Daesh air operations into Syria, the government will consider this request in the normal way, and in close consultation with our coalition partners."
Syria is far more complex than Iraq because there is a full-blown civil war being waged and any diminution of Islamic State's power will benefit the dictator Bashar al-Assad, whose rule the West opposes. Meanwhile, Russia, Turkey and Iran are all pursuing their own interests regarding Syria.
The US, Canada and several Arab countries are already carrying out air strikes against the Islamic State in Syria.
Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said Labor had received an "initial briefing" from the government on Monday but stressed "we're not going to rush into this".
The Chief of Joint Operations for the Australian Defence Force, David Johnston, last week said any Australian involvement would "not be a game changer" in Syria. Australia is currently carrying out regular strikes in Iraq.
Peter Leahy, the former chief of army and now head of Canberra University's National Security Institute, said he had "no objection" to expanding strikes to Syria but said the coalition needed a better plan for Syria and the whole region to defeat extremism.
"We are following the US, which has no clear conception of what victory looks like," he said.
Peter Jennings, executive director of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, agreed a better overall plan was needed but said extending air strikes into Syria was justified.
"The argument for it is that we'll never defeat IS unless we're able to target their leadership and that means being prepared to engage in more aggressive air strikes against is targets in al-Raqqa," he said.
He said this meant a higher risk to Australian personnel, as the case of the downed Jordanian pilot who was burnt to death in a cage by Islamic State showed in February.
Former top defence bureaucrat Allan Behm said Australia's expanded role into Syria would probably have little impact.
Mr Behm said the US-led air-only campaign was "a sideshow" because at best it could achieve a temporary gain, taking up time before it was realised that the only lasting solution in the war-torn region would be some form of negotiated settlement.
Former Australian Army general John Cantwell, who led Australia's forces in Afghanistan, said it was puzzling why the expansion had been sought, because there were few "viable" military targets.
"More flexibility is good in a general sense, [but] mission focus carries greater weight," he said.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-pushed-for-us-request-to-join-syrian-air-strikes-20150825-gj7kfh.html#ixzz3jsXjiJ9n