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Talking Politics

Panthera Tigris

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Apr 27, 2010
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On Porter. Yes he was clearly upset and shaken. And I don't believe it was an academy award performance. He was genuinely emotional.

However, what I can't work out (and I suppose none of us can) is whether he is upset and shaken because he has been falsely accused. Or is it because he's been caught out for something he did as a 17YO that he deeply regrets (or possibly didn't regret), that he had hence has tried to suppress to the deep basement of his mind for all these years.

Thing is, if he has strong convictions that he genuinely is not guilty of the offence, I would have thought he has no other option but to support the independent inquiry to clear his name once and for all. Not supporting it makes him look more guilty and just allows the fire to keep simmering.

On a side note. Often with this type of offending, it is a habit and pattern. So if he does have a tendency towards this type of offending, it may be that more women come forward about allegations over the years. Time will tell I suppose.
 
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tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
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The Howard government's 1997 "aged care act" allowed aged care to be privatised, as well as making it no longer compulsory to have a registered nurse at aged care centres. What a disaster it has turned out to be.

Howard and Costello didn't want to waste taxpayers money on aged care. They thought taxpayers money was better spent giving shareholders who HAD NOT paid any tax, a cheque collected from hard working Australian taxpayers by the means of a franking credit.

The 8 billion dollars of Australian taxpayers money handed out each year in franking credits would go along way in sorting out the National disgrace that the aged care industry is.
 
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Redford

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Dec 18, 2002
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On a side note. Often with this type of offending, it is a habit and pattern. So if he does have a tendency towards this type of offending, it may be that more women come forward about allegations over the years. Time will tell I suppose.

I haven't really been tracking this Porter thing but is it right that a 4 Corners program suggested that he'd been warned by Turnbull a few years ago about his behaviour and that there were other women who had negatively referenced (if that's a way to put it) his behaviour during his university days ?
 
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tigerman

It's Tiger Time
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I haven't really been tracking this Porter thing but is it right that a 4 Corners program suggested that he'd been warned by Turnbull a few years ago about his behaviour and that there were other women who had negatively referenced (if that's a way to put it) his behaviour during his university days ?
Yes, warned by Turnbull, a short time later he made him Attorney General !!!!
 

Panthera Tigris

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Apr 27, 2010
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I haven't really been tracking this Porter thing but is it right that a 4 Corners program suggested that he'd been warned by Turnbull a few years ago about his behaviour and that there were other women who had negatively referenced (if that's a way to put it) his behaviour during his university days ?
Yes, saw those reports (what was it, 12-18 months ago?). Most of that was about his general attitudes, vocalisations and written passages he had expressed regarding women, plus being a shameless womaniser in general. It also went into relationships he had which could be construed as an exploitation of power imbalance. Yes, all of this may make him an odious type of character. But none of that makes him a rapist or sex offender as such.

But as to whether more allegations come out of actual sex offending over the years, as I say, time will tell.
 
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Redford

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Yes, saw those reports (what was it, 12-18 months ago?). Most of that was about his general attitudes, vocalisations and written passages he had expressed regarding women, plus being a shameless womaniser in general. It also went into relationships he had which could be construed as an exploitation of power imbalance. Yes, all of this may make him an odious type of character. But none of that makes him a rapist or sex offender as such.

But as to whether more allegations come out of actual sex offender over the years, as I say, time will tell.

And when did the alleged victim first raise the alleged incident with anyone ? I know it's suggested that it was supposed to have occurred in 1988 but when did she first disclose it with/to anyone ?
 

IanG

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Sep 27, 2004
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I haven't really been tracking this Porter thing but is it right that a 4 Corners program suggested that he'd been warned by Turnbull a few years ago about his behaviour and that there were other women who had negatively referenced (if that's a way to put it) his behaviour during his university days ?

One of the key interviewees in the 4 Corners report was a lawyer who knew him during his University days IIRC. There is a definite pattern of behaviour.
 
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TrialByVideo

HailBGale!
Mar 1, 2015
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On a side note. Often with this type of offending, it is a habit and pattern. So if he does have a tendency towards this type of offending, it may be that more women come forward about allegations over the years. Time will tell I suppose.

There was an interesting question thrown at him yesterday as to whether he'd ever had anyone sign an NDA.... he said no... but it made me think the journo who asked the question believes/knows that's not the case.
 

Redford

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I can see from an ABC report that she apparently first raised the allegation with a male friend in 2018. Seems she had mental health issues for a long time preceding that, and her friends seem to be referencing that these health issues were a result, or largely influenced, by the alleged incident in 1988.

If she had been receiving professional help for those mental health issues, and those issues were in fact associated with the alleged incident, wouldn't it be highly likely that this would be recorded in her files ? Can they be accessed ? Privacy issues ?
 

22nd Man

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Aug 29, 2011
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The Howard government's 1997 "aged care act" allowed aged care to be privatised, as well as making it no longer compulsory to have a registered nurse at aged care centres. What a disaster it has turned out to be.

Howard and Costello didn't want to waste taxpayers money on aged care. They thought taxpayers money was better spent giving shareholders who HAD NOT paid any tax, a cheque collected from hard working Australian taxpayers by the means of a franking credit.

The 8 billion dollars of Australian taxpayers money handed out each year in franking credits would go along way in sorting out the National disgrace that the aged care industry is.
Most of the 8 billion goes into super funds of the masses. Not saying it isn't an argument to be had but don't think franking credits only or even mostly go to rich people. Go have alook at the registry of our biggest companies.
I would tax capital gains on family homes in some form......but that puts me in the outer with 90% of the country and politicians.

How far would the 8 bill go to correcting the disgrace? To deplorable, poor, acceptable?
 
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22nd Man

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A
I can see from an ABC report that she apparently first raised the allegation with a male friend in 2018. Seems she had mental health issues for a long time preceding that, and her friends seem to be referencing that these health issues were a result, or largely influenced, by the alleged incident in 1988.

If she had been receiving professional help for those mental health issues, and those issues were in fact associated with the alleged incident, wouldn't it be highly likely that this would be recorded in her files ? Can they be accessed ? Privacy issues ?
rent psychologists obliged to report any criminal activity they encounter in their counselling?
 

Redford

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Dec 18, 2002
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A

rent psychologists obliged to report any criminal activity they encounter in their counselling?

Dunno. That type of activity might be hard for a pysch to determine if they should or not. Such a grey area of the law to assess and prove out. Maybe confidentiality issues again too ? Not sure. But if she had been seeing a psych, wouldnt it be likely she'd have made some sort of disclosure about the alleged incident ? I dunno if she had been seeing one or not but you'd presume so. Could her files (if they are accessible) help prove or disprove anything ?
 

Panthera Tigris

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Apr 27, 2010
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At risk of making a hypocrite of myself, taking into account my past comments on some of these threads regarding my contemptuous attitude towards gambling. I wonder what odds one could have got with the bookies only a couple of weeks ago for a change in government at next years Federal election?

The L/NP coalition had the type of lead that really should have taken several election cycles to peg back. Helping them even further was the fact that we had the pandemic. Which unless a government completely *smile* up a crisis, generally such crisis actually assist an incumbent (regardless of their political shade) build on their lead. But these latest scandals and the poor handling of them I think could ultimately swallow their advantage. And I wouldn't be surprised if this opens the flood gates for other similar allegations to be exposed against those already accused and others in their ranks (both pollies and staffers).

It kind of reminds me of the aftermath of 2007. the ALP under Kevin Rudd swept to power with a lot of good will and support. They had a huge lead in the polls that history told us, should have taken several election cycles to peg back. But within one election cycle they were hanging on by the skin of their teeth. Their self destruction was obviously for different reasons. But it concerns me how deeply unstable our governance seems to be, which is hardly conducive to getting any real work done in a real policy sense.
 
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tigerman

It's Tiger Time
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tigerman

It's Tiger Time
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It kind of reminds me of the aftermath of 2007. the ALP under Kevin Rudd swept to power with a lot of good will and support. They had a huge lead in the polls that history told us, should have taken several election cycles to peg back. But within one election cycle they were hanging on by the skin of their teeth. Their self destruction was obviously for different reasons. But it concerns me how deeply unstable our governance seems to be, which is hardly conducive to getting any real work done in a real policy sense.
Rudd throwing the towel in when things didn't go his way with the emission trading scheme was the main factor in his undoing. "Our greatest moral challenge" and he dogged it.

We have a state election coming up in just over week in Wa. I voted early yesterday, a lady was handing out "how to vote for the Greens Party", I said to her you might have got my vote if your party had voted for the ETS. She hung her head and said, I'm sorry.
On departing i left her with "where is Australia now 11 years later, she hung her head again.
I might add that I was very civil to her, and I could see the disappointment she had in her party for not voting in favour of the Emission Trading Scheme.
 
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larabee

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Jun 11, 2010
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Does anyone else cringe a bit when Porter and Scomo keep mentioning the "Rule of Law" (I think Scomo thinks it's a new 3 word slogan the amount of times he said it today) when dismissing calls for an independent enquiry into the alleged rape, when you consider, oh I don't know, Robodebt for one example?



 
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Brodders17

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Mar 21, 2008
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Experts out, mates in: how Christian Porter blitzed the AAT’s robodebt division
Professionals sacked and Liberal Party hacks given the gigs. But where is the outrage from the public and the political pundits?

DAVID HARDAKER FEB 16, 2021
44
Christian Porter
ATTORNEY-GENERAL CHRISTIAN PORTER (IMAGE: AAP/LUKAS COCH)
This is the second of a two-part series. Read part one here.

When Attorney-General Christian Porter appointed Liberal Party lifer Karen Synon to head up the social services and child support division of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal it capped a near five-year Coalition blitz on the AAT’s independence.

As we’ve reported, the stacking of the AAT is the quintessential example of how the Morrison government has corrupted government processes to the benefit of party members, backroom workers and failed candidates.

The social services and child support division is responsible for a third of the AAT’s work, dealing mainly with Centrelink decisions affecting the aged pension, carer allowances and support, Newstart, youth allowance and ABSTUDY, to give a partial list. Those appealing to it are, in short, the people most in need of help — and a fair hearing — when taking on Australian bureaucracy.

While the erosion of the AAT has been endorsed by the entire cabinet, it is Porter who has been the spearhead. His fingerprints are all over the stacking of that division with party loyalists who frequently do not even have legal qualifications.

Jobs attract big salaries: senior members are paid up to $360,000 a year. Many of the government’s friends are appointed on seven-year contracts. It is seemingly almost impossible to get sacked.


You’re out! How a government tamed the AAT
Read More
Crikey has established that removing those with knowledge and experience began in earnest in 2016 when George Brandis was attorney-general. But the AAT’s legislation also means the minister responsible for social services needs to be in on the decision. Back then Porter was social services minister with senior oversight of the debt recovery scheme, picking up from his predecessor, Scott Morrison.

In 2016, at least five long-serving, politically neutral members were removed without explanation. One was the most senior Sydney member, Suellen Bullock, who was then deputy head of the division.

In 2017 came the removal of long-serving member Terry Carney, an emeritus professor of law, a leading Australian expert on social services law and the author of several authoritative texts. Carney’s case became well known because he was the first of the AAT’s adjudicators to identify the illegality of the government’s robodebt scheme which used income averaging data to calculate a welfare debt, assume guilt and force a recipient to pay up.

Carney made his first robodebt decision in March 2017. By September that year he was gone with immediate effect and no explanation given.

Reflecting on the robodebt scandal he later wrote that “it surely behoves us all to reflect on why it should be that taxpayers apparently receive a higher quality of justice than do social security clients. For the rule of law supposedly applies equally to all.”

Fine sentiments, but not much use in Porter’s version of the AAT.

Carney’s AAT colleague Dr Andrea Treble met the same fate. Treble concluded — also in March 2017 — that the debt in a case before her had not been correctly calculated by Centrelink. By September she too was gone.

In 2019 the government moved on the most senior member of all: James Walsh, division head and deputy president of the AAT since 2015. Walsh was a career expert on the ins and outs of social security law and had spent close to 20 years on social security appeal tribunals. Before that he had been a lawyer with Centrelink.

Those close to the decision say Walsh didn’t see his sacking coming and was left bitterly disappointed. He was ultimately replaced by Porter’s pick, Karen Synon, who has no experience at all in social security law.

Porter’s replacements have often been paid at higher rates than the experts they replaced. Those appointed — without interview — to sit on social security appeals include these Porter specials:

William Frost, one-time senior adviser on Porter’s staff
Joseph Francis, a former member of the Western Australian parliament and a Tony Abbott conservative. After leaving state parliament he ran a bus company which lent a campaign bus to Porter during the 2019 federal campaign. Francis has no university qualifications, although he did attend Abbott’s old school, St Ignatius College, in Sydney
Stephen Barton, former chief of staff to Francis.
Others include:

Anthony Barr, a long-serving state and federal backroom apparatchik, who penned editorials for the Institute of Public Affairs’ magazine as the conservative think tank’s director of finance and development. Barr was also employed by Liberal polling firm Crosby Textor, where he spearheaded a behind-the-scenes lobbying campaign to help the tobacco industry fight the ALP government’s plain packaging reforms in 2011
Donald Morris, who worked for the Liberal Party for much of his professional life and was a senior adviser to the federal government’s former Senate leader Eric Abetz. Morris was appointed by Brandis
Belinda Pola, former chief of staff to Mathias Cormann and former staffer to Joe Hockey
Jane Bell, who was handed a job by Porter three days before she unsuccessfully contested preselection for the Victorian federal seat of Higgins in 2019.
Out with no reason
One problem in trying to divine what’s behind removals at the AAT is that members are given no reason for being terminated.


A who’s who in the AAT zoo
Read More
It’s logical to conclude that at least two of Porter’s sackings — Carney and Treble — are payback for blowing the whistle on robodebt. But what of the others?

It’s tempting to interpret Porter’s actions as an attempt to engineer a partisan political culture within the AAT, making it hostile to those on government benefits and creating barriers to justice.

Yet that’s not the view of former and current members Crikey has spoken to. The consensus is that an AAT job is purely transactional, a way of rewarding Liberal Party members for services rendered to the party.

One experienced member tells Crikey that some appointees have openly stated they deserve a reward after putting in for the party. Crikey has been told of some being resentful they should have to put in the hours necessary to do the work.

As debasing as this is, the government and Porter have always got away with it. Because who really cares? The AAT’s work is overwhelmingly devoted to helping struggling people — migrants, refugees and those on welfare. No wonder the whole shebang flies under the radar for them.

What’s left after a bruising five years is an organisation within an organisation: a Liberal clique promoting each other and back-channelling against any professionally motivated or politically neutral members of the AAT who remain.

All done with political cover from the top.

 
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