Tasmania

[Brodders17]

people need to stop comparing a possible Tasmanian team to teams in Queensland and NSW. the goals, and "success" criteria of each are very different.
not saying i agree, but teams in NSW and Queensland are a (very) long term investment in growing the game, and bringing in money from those states. the AFL may subsidise those teams, but at the same time they are probably increasing the revenue the AFL brings in- through nationals sponsorships, and bigger TV rights. and the AFL is willing to bear losses now if it means in 30 years kids in those states are playing Aussie Rules at a higher rate than they do now.

the argument for a Tassie team is an emotive one, not a financial one.

 

[year of the tiger]

Yep. Fair argument Snakes Alive on the ethical and game waning front. However, not sure the Norf element is quite that relative when you consider a Tasmanian team is gonna cost a lot more to prop up than Norf.

Didn’t McGuire say you need at least $40m of revenue to be sustainable ? (Cwood and us generate about $70 m don’t we?). If that’s right, and if the AFL is gonna throw $10m pa at it and the state government another $10m pa, then where’s the other $20m pa coming from ?

Economically, can a Tasmanian club produce that year on year ?

At the end of the day, the AFL is a business and whilst it’s all nice and romantic, ethical etc to consider a stand alone team in Tasmania, there’s a heap of business risk associated with it for moderate business reward.

Disagree Red - it’s a national competition and sponsors are national - they don’t have to be Tasmanian.

Tassie has already been through this once, 10 plus years ago, I saw the draft business case - Tas had secured a major sponsor - Mars I think it was and the economics were just OK, certainly no worse than half the current clubs. Well, the AFL said it didn’t stack up economically - which I believe was an excuse they pulled out of their ar$e - Tassie missed out and their major sponsor was snapped up by the Blues.

If the AFL wanted a Tassie team, we would have had one well before the suns and GWS, but they don’t and that’s why there isn’t one.

 

[Redford]

Disagree Red - it’s a national competition and sponsors are national - they don’t have to be Tasmanian.

Tassie has already been through this once, 10 plus years ago, I saw the draft business case - Tas had secured a major sponsor - Mars I think it was and the economics were just OK, certainly no worse than half the current clubs. Well, the AFL said it didn’t stack up economically - which I believe was an excuse they pulled out of their ar$e - Tassie missed out and their major sponsor was snapped up by the Blues.

If the AFL wanted a Tassie team, we would have had one well before the suns and GWS, but they don’t and that’s why there isn’t one.

Yep. There’s national sponsors. No doubt. But you need a deep batting list when it comes to corporate revenue and major ones are just the openers.

I had a look at the GWS and GC list of sponsors last night and they’ve got quite a few secondary and local businesses of what looks like reasonable size tipping in reasonable dollars.

I can think of Cadbury, Elphinstone…Lion Nathan (Boags)…Anheuser (Cascade) maybe some other decent sized businesses as second tier sponsors.

It’s not just the economics I (and I’m sure the AFL and others) have concerns over anyway. Tassie presents its own unique set of challenges.

 

[Leysy Days]

Yep. Fair argument Snakes Alive on the ethical and game waning front. However, not sure the Norf element is quite that relative when you consider a Tasmanian team is gonna cost a lot more to prop up than Norf.

Didn’t McGuire say you need at least $40m of revenue to be sustainable ? (Cwood and us generate about $70 m don’t we?). If that’s right, and if the AFL is gonna throw $10m pa at it and the state government another $10m pa, then where’s the other $20m pa coming from ?

Economically, can a Tasmanian club produce that year on year ?

At the end of the day, the AFL is a business and whilst it’s all nice and romantic, ethical etc to consider a stand alone team in Tasmania, there’s a heap of business risk associated with it for moderate business reward.

The economic component has already been done in depth by Colin Carter.

It found if the state govt chip in between $7M and $11M a year (Geez they already do that for North and Hawthorn) the team would be economically sustainable as a stand alone and the club would rank in the middle to lower reaches of the AFL i.e. around 12th.

The Govt have already guaranteed $12M.

Financially it stacks up.

 

[Leysy Days]

And why should the AFL go to clubs when a lot will knock it back purely out of self interest (Not all are like us and Geelong).

Gil needs to grow a pair for the first time in his life and make a decision.

If some clubs don't like it stiff *smile*.

 

[Redford]

The economic component has already been done in depth by Colin Carter.

It found if the state govt chip in between $7M and $11M a year (Geez they already do that for North and Hawthorn) the team would be economically sustainable as a stand alone and the club would rank in the middle to lower reaches of the AFL i.e. around 12th.

The Govt have already guaranteed $12M.

Financially it stacks up.

The report from Carter according to some of those who’ve seen it has big omissions and stretched numbers in it.

And where’s the funding for a new stadium coming from Nobets ? Don’t believe the state government or the Carter report has verified that yet have they ? Isn’t that what the AFL and submission reps are desperately trying to pull together right now ?

 

[Tiger Rob]

My 2 cents.
The big island and in particular the old guard in Melbourne still think we are the backwards, economic slum we were 30 years ago.
Times have changed people, this state is up and about now.
We can do it. And it will happen.

 

[Leysy Days]

The report from Carter according to some of those who’ve seen it has big omissions and stretched numbers in it.

And where’s the funding for a new stadium coming from Nobets ? Don’t believe the state government or the Carter report has verified that yet have they ? Isn’t that what the AFL and submission reps are desperately trying to pull together right now ?

Smarter people than you and I have said the funding is fine - Carter, Godfrey etc.

When you give someone smart and reputable like Carter the time and resources to stack the viability up. If they say it does, you have to go with it.

Re: new stadium. That is all new *smile* and never on the table until now. New stadium would be fantastic down on the foreshore of Hobart.

But current grounds in Tas mustn't be up to AFL football by that criteria...

 

[DavidSSS]

Tasmania is an Australian Rules state. The game needs to be nurtured in new markets (NSW and Qld) and defended in traditional markets (Vic, WA, SA and Tas).

Tasmania should get a team.

DS

 

[hutstar]

The AFL don’t want a Tassie team - they stall, wait, conduct another review, procrastinate and then when they can’t stall any longer they keep raising the stakes.

First it was no AFL $ - when every other team gets AFL $ and look what $ they put into Giants and suns every year.
Then the AFL demands that the Tassie Govt needs to commit around $10m per year - Tassie agrees
Then the AFL raises that to $19 or $20m per year
Then lastly the AFL plays it’s trump card and demands this week that the Govt needs to build a brand new $750m stadium and run it which will cost more like $1b. Knowing full well the State doesn’t have that cash to spend.

How long does it take to fully design and build a stadium - reckon it’s a 6 to 7 year project down here if all goes well (things take longer to build as there are the people to throw at jobs like the big cities)

Job done Gill - delayed entry by up to 10 years. I think he is shafting the state big time.

Of course Tassie deserves a team, the people are desperate for a team and have been for decades, the sport is dying here, not slowly, but every year or so another senior club falls over, and Gill doesn’t care.

I reckon Gill knows he can’t get enough presidents over the line, he can’t cause he doesn’t want to.

I reckon Tasmania should give him the finger, tell him to GAGF - because the asking price is now well over $1.2b.

Port played at their crappy Oval for how long and they weren’t made to wait till they had a squeaky new stadium before they joined.

The suns get how much extra per year plus GWS get spoon fed by the AFL.

Gill is a a….hole , he needs to go.

I think you're projecting a lot of emotion on the Gil. He'd do it in a heartbeat if he thought there was money in it. I think Gil WANTS to do it, we all WANT it - but the business case is pretty crappy to be honest. There's not enough people and the ones there are decentralized. There's almost no corporate base and with that not much prospect of either big sponsors or big corporate box sales revenue. And unlike GWS or GC, there's no real population growth or potential to win new fans. Travelling fans won't be interested, it's difficult to reach and cold. There's no stadium of note. As you said, there's not a lot of incentive for TV rights based on massive viewership increases.
The idea that the evil genius Gil is somehow undermining it is overestimating how much he needs to. There's no commercial incentive, Presidents don't want it, and unless the Tassie Government stumps up, there's no infrastructure. It may well be financially viable to get by, but it's hard to see it contributing to profits.
If it happens, and I hope it does because Tassie deserves a team, it will be purely because people including Gil WANT it, even though it's illogical.

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

I don't usually agree with the scum bags but yeah No New stadium no club.
Let's not hide away from this is an entire state club not just a city wanting a club.
Do it properly, if that's for 2030 or 2040
Get it right. Don't bring in a new club if it's going to be on life support after 5 yrs..
Make sure it is cashed up and a destination club for young kids wanting to go there.
Don't make them play on open grounds that are -5 degrees in the winter.
The Tassie Devils.
Ground Devils Stadium Hobart
Capacity 40k.

 

[Redford]

Smarter people than you and I have said the funding is fine - Carter, Godfrey etc.

When you give someone smart and reputable like Carter the time and resources to stack the viability up. If they say it does, you have to go with it.

Re: new stadium. That is all new *smile* and never on the table until now. New stadium would be fantastic down on the foreshore of Hobart.

But current grounds in Tas mustn't be up to AFL football by that criteria...

Cmon Nobet Pays. It’s as rubbery as all hell. You (and others) have been complaining about Norf, GC, GWS etc being propped up financially for years. Concessions, priority picks and on. And now we’re gonna add another club to that social welfare list ? And for what ….just to keep the existing interest in AFL football which from a tv perspective hasn’t changed much ? Tipping in massive amounts of money as a retention exercise as opposed to a growth one ? Doesn’t make any sense for the AFL at all. And that’s without all the other issues down there as well eg geographical spread, having to use multiple grounds, keeping players in Tasmania, generations of Tasmanians already wedded to AFL teams etc etc.

A team in Tasmania would be great - if it’s sure to be a success. But I just don’t see it. Right now it’s an emotional and ethical platform more than a sound long term successful business one. At least half of the required revenue coming from government and AFL donations ? Cmon Nobets. That’s got whiskers on it.

And the state government has only committed to 10 years of funding. What happens after that, particularly if the team is struggling ? Along with the missing capital investment required for a new ground, is that something else that’s missing from your wonderful Carter report ?

Can’t be too wonderful if the AFL have spent the last 2 months feverishly working with proposal representatives to address a whole host of blank spaces.

 

[tigerman]

My 2 cents.
The big island and in particular the old guard in Melbourne still think we are the backwards, economic slum we were 30 years ago.
Times have changed people, this state is up and about now.
We can do it. And it will happen.

And so it should happen. I can't wait to see Tasmania have their 'own' AFL side.

It's a disgrace the 100's of millions of dollars that the AFL have poured into GWS and the Suns at the expense of Tasmania, for a return of crowds as low as 4 & 5,000.

"The Giants reportedly received $203 million in funding since 2012, leading the Suns ($198m)"

Funding of AFL clubs revealed in massive $100m gap from rich and poor

AFL team funding broken down as $100m gap exposed

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Redford]

And so it should happen. I can't wait to see Tasmania have their 'own' AFL side.

It's a disgrace the 100's of millions of dollars that the AFL have poured into GWS and the Suns at the expense of Tasmania, for a return of crowds as low as 4 & 5,000.

"The Giants reportedly received $203 million in funding since 2012, leading the Suns ($198m)"

Funding of AFL clubs revealed in massive $100m gap from rich and poor

AFL team funding broken down as $100m gap exposed

www.foxsports.com.au

The AFL is going to have to tip that and much more into a Tasmanian team Tigerman. If you’re ok with that, then fine. But it absolves the right to complain about Norf, GC etc and the funding they get to be propped up - propped up at the expense of the self sustaining clubs I might add.

How many propped up clubs can the AFL carry ?

 

[tigerman]

The AFL is going to have to tip that and much more into a Tasmanian team Tigerman. If you’re ok with that, then fine. But it absolves the right to complain about Norf, GC etc and the funding they get to be propped up - propped up at the expense of the self sustaining clubs I might add.

How many propped up clubs can the AFL carry ?

I'd rather the AFL tip money into the proud and great football state that Tasmania is, than p!ss it against the wall like they have in Western Sydney.

 

[Redford]

I'd rather the AFL tip money into the proud and great football state that Tasmania is, than p!ss it against the wall like they have in Western Sydney.

Fair enough. But don’t complain then if Tasmania is struggling, and the AFL has tipped in hundreds of millions of dollars to prop it up for very little/no gain and at the expense of clubs like Richmond. It’ll be hypocritical to do so and too late as well Tiges.

There’s enormous risk for not much gain from the AFL’s perspective and I don’t blame them one iota for being very judicious with it all.

 

[jb03]

The push for a Tassie team seems to come from people who fled to the mainland and couldn't get out of Tassie quick enough.

 

[Redford]

The push for a Tassie team seems to come from people who fled to the mainland and couldn't get out of Tassie quick enough.

And won’t actually follow and support the team either ?

 

[TT33]

what's the population of Geelong, less than 300k, the population of Tassie is more than 500k.
Not everyone living in Geelong barrack for the pussie, same as everyone in Tassie won't barrack for a Tassie team.

Using the population argument doesn't really stack.

Which industries in Geelong are sponsors of them, not many, Ford no longer have much of a presence there.

Tassie has more industry in general than cat land.

Tassie should have their own team.

 

[Tigaman]

Just locate LOL Norf. Training base Arden Street. Home game matches split between Hobart/ Launceston. Nothing wrong at the arenas they play now as long as the surface is up to scratch. I prefer those type of grounds to the big stadiums. Get stuck in seating among rabid opposition supporters you cannot move. Another angle is that AFL want stadium in Tassie yet they play games at Ballarat, Darwin, Cairns & Alice Springs all historic AFL ovals.