Terrorist Attacks | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Terrorist Attacks

LeeToRainesToRoach

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Jun 4, 2006
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Shocking attack in New Zealand. Even worse that the country in lockdown, so they can’t get around each other as community. May the innocent victims RIP.
Coppers were all over him, had him under observation and followed him to the supermarket. Could’ve been much worse. Three critical.
 
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LeeToRainesToRoach

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Jun 4, 2006
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LeeToRainesToRoach

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Jun 4, 2006
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Melbourne
This seems pretty odd
terrorist: "I want one tonne of fertilizer."
assistant: "What do you want it for?"
terrorist: "I have a large farm and... I'm sorry, Allah forbids me to tell a lie. I wish to make a car bomb and blow this entire block to the moon."
assistant: "Very well. We don't stand in the way of ambition in New Zealand."
 

DavidSSS

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Dec 11, 2017
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We'd all go apesh1t if you could be arrested for what you say you believe. If they couldn't prove he was planning an attack then he doesn't get put away.

If we create a police state because of a fear of terrorists then the terrorists have won.

DS
 

Sintiger

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Aug 11, 2010
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We'd all go apesh1t if you could be arrested for what you say you believe. If they couldn't prove he was planning an attack then he doesn't get put away.

If we create a police state because of a fear of terrorists then the terrorists have won.

DS
As I understand it David they could prove it but it is not considered a crime in NZ whereas it is in Australia.
 

AngryAnt

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Nov 25, 2004
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Apparently they were following him. He grabbed a kitchen knife in a shop and they got to him in two minutes. Still, lucky he didn't kill anyone.
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

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Samsudeen arrived in New Zealand in October 2011, aged 22, on a student visa. Shortly after arriving he made a claim for refugee status. Immigration New Zealand declined this claim in 2012, but he appealed to the Immigration and Protection Tribunal and was successful. He was granted refugee status in December 2013.
...
Back in February 2019, Samsudeen’s refugee status was cancelled and he was served with deportation liability notices. Ardern added that his refugee claim had been based on a fraudulent document, although she did not elaborate further. He appealed against his deportation to the Immigration and Protection Tribunal. He was still in prison at this time, and facing criminal charges. The deportation appeal could not proceed until after the conclusion of the criminal trial in May 2021.
...
A person can only be detained under the Immigration Act for the purpose of deportation. Immigration New Zealand was required to consider whether deportation was likely to proceed but crown law’s advice was that the individual was likely to be considered a “protected person” because of the status of the country from which he had travelled, and likely treatment on return."
...
“Immigration New Zealand explored whether the Immigration Act might allow them to detain the individual while his deportation appeal was heard. It was incredibly disappointing and frustrating when legal advice came back to say this wasn’t an option.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...t-prior-to-auckland-attack-jacinda-adern-says

These things make me so angry. There should be repercussions for these so-called human rights mobs when their decisions against the national interest go pear-shaped.
 

Sintiger

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Aug 11, 2010
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Thought Crime?

DS
Not thought crime, evidence of planning a crime.
I heard it on one of the news reports that they said planning an act of terrorism is not a crime in NZ but is in Australia.
There are certainly examples of people being arrested in Australia for planning terrorism
 

AngryAnt

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Nov 25, 2004
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Not thought crime, evidence of planning a crime.
I heard it on one of the news reports that they said planning an act of terrorism is not a crime in NZ but is in Australia.
There are certainly examples of people being arrested in Australia for planning terrorism

The Guardian article says a proposed law around planning terrorist acts is yet to go before Parliament. Not sure why it's taken them so long, but hopefully that loophole will be closed soon.

It seems like the authorities had been surveilling this guy for months and they were only metres away when he grabbed the knife and started stabbing people.
 
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DavidSSS

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Dec 11, 2017
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Last I looked pretty much any terror act you care to name was already illegal. Blow up a building: yep. Kill a few random people: I think so. Bit of sabotage: sure is.

I have never seen the need for terror laws - conspiracy to commit any of these crimes, planning any of these crimes - been illegal for years.

I would treat them a common criminals, giving them the "terrorist" label gives them more promotion and plays into their hands.

DS
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

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Jun 4, 2006
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I think you'll find that just about any terrorist act would lead to gaol, that would come under detain.
That's the whole point of this case, they tried the first two options and were thwarted by laws. In the end they had no choice but option #3.

Some people have trouble understanding the nature of psychopathy, of being chronically bad and simply not able to be reformed. They want to see the good and give the benefit of the doubt, and they believed this guy could be rehabbed after he'd been on a one-way street for years. I think when you've demonstrated designs on killing people at random, you need to be taken out of circulation for as long as necessary.
 
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DavidSSS

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Dec 11, 2017
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If they could not prove he was planning or conspiring to plan a terrorist act, or indeed any other act which is against the law, then on what basis do you detain or deport him?

As I said before, if we create a police state then the terrorists win because they have us restricting our own freedoms and cowering in fear.

DS
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

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Jun 4, 2006
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Melbourne
If they could not prove he was planning or conspiring to plan a terrorist act, or indeed any other act which is against the law, then on what basis do you detain or deport him?

As I said before, if we create a police state then the terrorists win because they have us restricting our own freedoms and cowering in fear.
They tried to deport him because he lied on his refugee application and because he repeatedly posted pro-terrorism material online.

He was arrested and imprisoned when about to leave the country for Syria to join ISIS.

The man was a bona fide wannabe terrorist. It wasn't a case of proving it.
 

DavidSSS

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Dec 11, 2017
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Don't know about lying on the refugee app, but posting pro-terrorism material would come under free speech unless you can prove it is incitement.

Arrested and imprisoned, so there must have been proof he was planning to, conspiring to, or actually breaking some law, presumably planning to go overseas and kill people would be against the law.

It certainly is a case of proving he is a terrorist (not a wannabe terrorist, can't see anything illegal about that, unless by wannabe you mean actively planning a terrorist act). Are we going to lock people up just for what they think? Or maybe we lock them up because of, you know, the vibe of what they claim to believe.

We restrict our freedoms we play into their hands, they don't spread terror for the fun of it, they do this to make our societies' cower in the face of their actions.

DS
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,188
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Melbourne
It certainly is a case of proving he is a terrorist (not a wannabe terrorist, can't see anything illegal about that, unless by wannabe you mean actively planning a terrorist act). Are we going to lock people up just for what they think? Or maybe we lock them up because of, you know, the vibe of what they claim to believe.
Sounds like you could easily get a job on one of these tribunals.
Police first started investigating him in March 2016 when he shared videos and pictures of graphic war-related violence, and comments advocating violent extremism. He also posted comments in support of terrorists involved in attacks.
He had also been prevented from carrying out a terrorist attack. The details of the attack are not specified in the news articles. This is where the law became nonsensical as it ruled he could not be jailed for planning the failed attack. But it was the reason he was under 24/7 surveillance.

You and I just don't see eye to eye on these things, and we're not going to. A person like this forfeits his right to live in a civilised country and must be neutralised by any available means. I demand it as a citizen.