The Geelong Cants | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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The Geelong Cants

tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
30,151
12,616
What?! Shocking changed the rules after a Geelong player was tackled? No way….

Www.heraldsun.com.au



SLING & A PRAYER


The stands were empty when Shaun Burgoyne laid the tackle on Patrick Dangerfield that changed the game.
It was on a cold Friday night in Geelong on June 12, 2020, when Burgoyne pinned one of Dangerfield’s arms and slammed him into the turf so the side of the Cat’s head crashed into the ground.
Under the rules at the time, Burgoyne received a $1000 fine. Dangerfield played on after the tackle, so the rough-conduct charge was graded only low-impact. But for then-AFL operations manager Steve Hocking, it was the iceberg moment. The tipping point. The realisation things had to change.
And within 72 hours, the game’s footy boss made the bold call to alter the rules to strengthen the dangerous-tackle penalties, and more seriously recognise the threat of head-knocks and brain injuries in the game. The league knew it had to make a greater effort to stamp out the tackles in which players had their heads pounded into the ground, without any ability to protect themselves.
Like the punch and elbow from a previous era, and head-high bumps, dangerous tackles were next on the AFL’s hit-list as the wave of concussion lawsuits loomed large. Geelong and GWS great Steve Johnson was blunt about the true nature of tackling early in his brilliant career. “We were told – and this is probably going back 10 years – that if you get an opportunity to tackle a player to the ground with extra vigour, and hurt that player, that will be a win for the team,” Johnson said on Triple M. And in 2015, after Carlton’s Bryce Gibbs knocked out Port Adelaide great Robbie Gray in a tackle, former Power star Chad Wingard said the bigger the name, the more they were targeted. “Gary Ablett cops it all the time,” he said. All the star players you try and rough up and tackle to the ground as hard as you can.
“It’s just unlucky he (Gray) had his arms pinned and couldn’t really brace himself.”
In other words, get footy’s big dogs when you can.
For Hocking, the problem with the league’s rules up until the Burgoyne case in 2020 was as simple as changing only one letter in the tribunal guidelines. Previously, players had to pin both arms of an opponent in a tackle for the incident to be upgraded under the “potential to cause serious injury” clause, increasing the penalty.
Burgoyne had pinned only one of Dangerfield’s arms in the 2020 tackle that whipped him into the turf at GMHBA Stadium, and he subsequently copped a fine. But Hocking knew players were at risk when only one arm was being held. Three years later, it was the determining factor in the tribunal’s decision to uphold Hawk James Sicily’s three-match ban for the tackle that has divided the game over the past four days.
As much as it sent some fans into a spin and sparked fears for the game, tribunal chairman Jeff Gleeson on Tuesday night clearly reinforced the Hocking rule change in 2020.
Back then, the AFL had to make a statement on head-slamming tackles, and take the game in a new direction. Football had to create a safer environment for players as concussion concerns grew.
Three days after the Burgoyne tackle, Hocking had received approval from the AFL Commission so that tribunal guideline section 4.3 (e) relating to rough conduct (dangerous tackles) will change from “arms” to “arm” being pinned. It meant only one arm had to be trapped to upgrade the severity of the impact in a bid to bring the penalty more in line with the action rather than the outcome (injury).
“We are pulling it right back to the action here (not the outcome),” Hocking said in 2020. “Dangerous tackles have the potential to cause serious head injuries.
“One of the things that was a frustration for us was that (the existing rules) didn’t capture all dangerous tackles. The potential to cause serious injury (upgrade) was only captured under spear tackles and pinned arms.
“Clearly over the weekend that was not the case. Dangerfield did get an arm free and, moving forward, we can capture all things with this strengthening.”
It meant spear, or slinging tackles, weren’t the only dangerous ones. The AFL had suddenly cast a much wider net on what a dangerous tackle was. And Hawthorn legend Leigh Matthews backed in the new approach hard in 2021 after Gold Coast’s Nick Holman was cited for a chase-down dangerous tackle on concussed Cat Mitch Duncan. “If any tackle causes the other player to hit his head on the turf, to me, that’s a careless, dangerous tackle,” Matthews said.
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
18,172
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1686807594790.png

Talk the talk, then walk in a different direction. "We are pulling it right back to the action here (not the outcome)." Oh if that were only true. Take any of the tackles this year that have been suspended, from an action point of view, many were similar to Broads, but 1 got 4 weeks the others get 1.
Take rough conduct / bumps etc, and you get Pickett (which from an action point of view was probably the worse one of the season) and he gets 2, but others for much lesser actions (but worse outcomes) get harsher penalties.

If they were doing as described, frankly, I wouldn't have a problem, but they are adjudicating almost exclusively on outcome, not action which is the the complete opposite way that Hocking said above it was designed.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,740
18,414
Melbourne
View attachment 19611

Talk the talk, then walk in a different direction. "We are pulling it right back to the action here (not the outcome)." Oh if that were only true. Take any of the tackles this year that have been suspended, from an action point of view, many were similar to Broads, but 1 got 4 weeks the others get 1.
Take rough conduct / bumps etc, and you get Pickett (which from an action point of view was probably the worse one of the season) and he gets 2, but others for much lesser actions (but worse outcomes) get harsher penalties.

If they were doing as described, frankly, I wouldn't have a problem, but they are adjudicating almost exclusively on outcome, not action which is the the complete opposite way that Hocking said above it was designed.

So true.

DS
 
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Legends of 2017

Finally!!!!!!!!!!!
Mar 24, 2005
6,749
6,292
Melbourne
What?! Shocking changed the rules after a Geelong player was tackled? No way….

Www.heraldsun.com.au



SLING & A PRAYER


The stands were empty when Shaun Burgoyne laid the tackle on Patrick Dangerfield that changed the game.
It was on a cold Friday night in Geelong on June 12, 2020, when Burgoyne pinned one of Dangerfield’s arms and slammed him into the turf so the side of the Cat’s head crashed into the ground.
Under the rules at the time, Burgoyne received a $1000 fine. Dangerfield played on after the tackle, so the rough-conduct charge was graded only low-impact. But for then-AFL operations manager Steve Hocking, it was the iceberg moment. The tipping point. The realisation things had to change.
And within 72 hours, the game’s footy boss made the bold call to alter the rules to strengthen the dangerous-tackle penalties, and more seriously recognise the threat of head-knocks and brain injuries in the game. The league knew it had to make a greater effort to stamp out the tackles in which players had their heads pounded into the ground, without any ability to protect themselves.
Like the punch and elbow from a previous era, and head-high bumps, dangerous tackles were next on the AFL’s hit-list as the wave of concussion lawsuits loomed large. Geelong and GWS great Steve Johnson was blunt about the true nature of tackling early in his brilliant career. “We were told – and this is probably going back 10 years – that if you get an opportunity to tackle a player to the ground with extra vigour, and hurt that player, that will be a win for the team,” Johnson said on Triple M. And in 2015, after Carlton’s Bryce Gibbs knocked out Port Adelaide great Robbie Gray in a tackle, former Power star Chad Wingard said the bigger the name, the more they were targeted. “Gary Ablett cops it all the time,” he said. All the star players you try and rough up and tackle to the ground as hard as you can.
“It’s just unlucky he (Gray) had his arms pinned and couldn’t really brace himself.”
In other words, get footy’s big dogs when you can.
For Hocking, the problem with the league’s rules up until the Burgoyne case in 2020 was as simple as changing only one letter in the tribunal guidelines. Previously, players had to pin both arms of an opponent in a tackle for the incident to be upgraded under the “potential to cause serious injury” clause, increasing the penalty.
Burgoyne had pinned only one of Dangerfield’s arms in the 2020 tackle that whipped him into the turf at GMHBA Stadium, and he subsequently copped a fine. But Hocking knew players were at risk when only one arm was being held. Three years later, it was the determining factor in the tribunal’s decision to uphold Hawk James Sicily’s three-match ban for the tackle that has divided the game over the past four days.
As much as it sent some fans into a spin and sparked fears for the game, tribunal chairman Jeff Gleeson on Tuesday night clearly reinforced the Hocking rule change in 2020.
Back then, the AFL had to make a statement on head-slamming tackles, and take the game in a new direction. Football had to create a safer environment for players as concussion concerns grew.
Three days after the Burgoyne tackle, Hocking had received approval from the AFL Commission so that tribunal guideline section 4.3 (e) relating to rough conduct (dangerous tackles) will change from “arms” to “arm” being pinned. It meant only one arm had to be trapped to upgrade the severity of the impact in a bid to bring the penalty more in line with the action rather than the outcome (injury).
“We are pulling it right back to the action here (not the outcome),” Hocking said in 2020. “Dangerous tackles have the potential to cause serious head injuries.
“One of the things that was a frustration for us was that (the existing rules) didn’t capture all dangerous tackles. The potential to cause serious injury (upgrade) was only captured under spear tackles and pinned arms.
“Clearly over the weekend that was not the case. Dangerfield did get an arm free and, moving forward, we can capture all things with this strengthening.”
It meant spear, or slinging tackles, weren’t the only dangerous ones. The AFL had suddenly cast a much wider net on what a dangerous tackle was. And Hawthorn legend Leigh Matthews backed in the new approach hard in 2021 after Gold Coast’s Nick Holman was cited for a chase-down dangerous tackle on concussed Cat Mitch Duncan. “If any tackle causes the other player to hit his head on the turf, to me, that’s a careless, dangerous tackle,” Matthews said.
Funny that an elbow to the face causing concussion was acceptable enough for him to not change the rules
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
18,172
21,963
Thats a football action apparently, bracing for contact is not.

The irony of this was that the Geelong fans explanation of that was, that he had reached out to punch the ball and then braced for contact = no suspension as a footballing incident, but now Mansell turns slightly to brace for contact = 3 weeks.
 
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CarnTheTiges

This is a REAL tiger
Mar 8, 2004
25,481
11,396
Victoria
The irony of this was that the Geelong fans explanation of that was, that he had reached out to punch the ball and then braced for contact = no suspension as a footballing incident, but now Mansell turns slightly to brace for contact = 3 weeks.
Yeah, that dirty Vlastuin should have been suspended for hitting Danger’s elbow with his head.
 
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bugsy

TIGERISING
Jul 31, 2004
494
644
Plonkerfield’s heel spurs must be playing up again. Both he and the Cants have stopped as if shot.

Still they have SuperCoach Salty who can perform miracles. This is a big test for him though.
 

TigerFurious

Smooth
Dec 17, 2002
3,632
4,881
Shades of us in 2021 with the cats this year. Signs early in the season that all was not right but they were brushed aside thinking the cats would pull themselves together in time. But the losses kept mounting and they were uncharacteristic losses too. Losing at home, losing to us outside of finals, leaking goals like a bottom four side, being belted by sides that were previously their bunnies.

Can’t see things getting better for them in the back half of the year. Doubt they will even make finals but even if they do they’ll be fodder for the better sides.
 
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tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
30,151
12,616
Shades of us in 2021 with the cats this year. Signs early in the season that all was not right but they were brushed aside thinking the cats would pull themselves together in time. But the losses kept mounting and they were uncharacteristic losses too. Losing at home, losing to us outside of finals, leaking goals like a bottom four side, being belted by sides that were previously their bunnies.

Can’t see things getting better for them in the back half of the year. Doubt they will even make finals but even if they do they’ll be fodder for the better sides.
They come home with 6 games at GMHBA where they have a 90% win rate
 

Disco Soars

Tiger Cub
May 8, 2023
51
122
They come home with 6 games at GMHBA where they have a 90% win rate
They should make finals, but the commentators mentioned an interesting stat last night. This loss to Port was the fifth time in 2023 the Cats have conceded over 100 points in a game...last year they only conceded 100 points once all season.

They are clearly having issues with contested ball, groundball and stopping opposition spread from the contest.
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
18,172
21,963
They come home with 6 games at GMHBA where they have a 90% win rate

They do have a great record there (for obvious reasons), but they aren't purely playing spud teams there. They play Melbourne, Freo, Port and the Dogs there which will all be tough games, especially if their issues around contested possession continue. They should easily beat North and the Bombers there.

Clangerfield back to his best I see last night. Less than 27% DE%. I wonder if old Kano has anything to say on that one or does he just bag out Taranto for DE%?

1686868500493.png
 
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TOT70

I'm just a suburban boy
Jul 27, 2004
9,734
3,802
Melbourne
Are the Bombers going to Kitty Litter Park? Never thought I would see the day.

When are Collingwood going?
 
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mjb

Tiger Matchwinner
Jun 23, 2007
582
459
"He kept trying, but it was clear he just couldn't have an impact on the game from pretty early in the second quarter.”

Could be Chris Scott after any number of games really.