The global swing to the right :-) | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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The global swing to the right :-)

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,149
15,003
So the promised Western swing to the hard right following Brexit/Trump has fizzled out. First Macron spanked LePen in France and now things are looking bad for May and the Tories in the UK. Still early days, but a hung parliament looks likely. The hard right anti-immigration "UK for the whiteys" UKIP party looks like it has been wiped out.

Meanwhile in Australia we've already had our Trump moment. Thanks for the memories Tony! Fizza Turnbull is barely keeping his head above water and looks like another Labor government next election. Good times!

EDIT Jeremy Corbyn now favourite to be the next PM. The Dems should have gone with Bernie in the US, would have kicked Trump's arse.

DB1sF4IWAAQ13iK.jpg
 

1eyedtiger

Tiger Superstar
Jun 2, 2007
1,132
1
Do voters really think along the lines of 'left' and 'right' anymore? Or are they just voting for change because the status quo isn't working? And no, Australia hasn't had its 'Trump' moment yet. We continue to shuffle the deck chairs while the ship slowly sinks. We'll get our 'Trump' moment when it's too late and it'll be a moot point by then.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,149
15,003
1eyedtiger said:
Do voters really think along the lines of 'left' and 'right' anymore? Or are they just voting for change because the status quo isn't working? And no, Australia hasn't had its 'Trump' moment yet. We continue to shuffle the deck chairs while the ship slowly sinks. We'll get our 'Trump' moment when it's too late and it'll be a moot point by then.

Is the ship sinking? Australia has just had the longest recorded period of any country without a recession in modern world history. Crime - been going down since the 1970s. Standards of living? Rising since the 1950s. War? The number of people killed in wars globally has fallen drastically since last century. Terrorism? Increasing slowly but still way way lower than the 1970s.

Apart from environment/climate change everything is going on nicely. I just don't buy the "country is going down the tubes any moment" hysteria *smile*. And yeah, we even survived Tony Abbott.
 

year of the tiger

Tiger Legend
Mar 26, 2008
9,504
6,669
Tasmania
1eyedtiger said:
Do voters really think along the lines of 'left' and 'right' anymore? Or are they just voting for change because the status quo isn't working? And no, Australia hasn't had its 'Trump' moment yet. We continue to shuffle the deck chairs while the ship slowly sinks. We'll get our 'Trump' moment when it's too late and it'll be a moot point by then.

Yes our Trump moment would be either Hanson or Bernandi having a majority and becoming PM
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,149
15,003
year of the tiger said:
Yes our Trump moment would be either Hanson or Bernandi having a majority and becoming PM

If they are going to truly do a Trump they'd have to become Leader of the Liberal Party and then win the election.

Sorry kids, Tony Abbott is the closest to Trump you are ever going to get to Trump. Self-absorbed narcissist? Check. Climate change denier? Check. Loves coal and pollution? Check. Make America Great Again/"Team Australia"? Check. Lurching from one PR disaster to the next? Check.
 

Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
I for one look forward to more socialist leaders being elected. It will provide the impetus for real change, hopefully invigorating secession movements.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,149
15,003
Giardiasis said:
Clearly the poms are a bunch of misogynistic women haters.

This is just too easy G-man, it's a parliamentary election, not a presidential one. Think before you post man!

Labour has a far higher proportion of female MPs in the previous parliament. And a higher absolute total than even the Tories despite being a minority party. Oops.

Code:
	Political Party
Number of MPs	Number of Female MPs	Percentage of Party's MPs	Percentage of Female MPs
House of Commons	650	191	[b]29%[/b]	100%
Conservative	330	68	21%	36%
Labour	232	99	[b]43%[/b]	52%

And is standing more female candidates in this election than any other party.

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-39888208

Theresa May will be reelected in her seat - of course the Tories might dump her out of her parliamentary party leadership role but that's only because they are misogynistic, not because the British public are.
 

1eyedtiger

Tiger Superstar
Jun 2, 2007
1,132
1
antman said:
Is the ship sinking? Australia has just had the longest recorded period of any country without a recession in modern world history. Crime - been going down since the 1970s. Standards of living? Rising since the 1950s. War? The number of people killed in wars globally has fallen drastically since last century. Terrorism? Increasing slowly but still way way lower than the 1970s.

Apart from environment/climate change everything is going on nicely. I just don't buy the "country is going down the tubes any moment" hysteria *smile*. And yeah, we even survived Tony Abbott.

Going along nicely? Wages - stagnated. Manufacturing - gone. Jobs - gone. Unemployment - Up, Debt - up. Cost of living - through the roof.

The only reason we haven't had a recession is because of dubious government policy and fiddling with the books. The definition of 'unemployed' these days is farcical. The official rate of inflation is equally farcical. Australia just follows the old adage 'If at first you don't succeed, redefine success'. And in your 70's, you could go from high school to a life long secure job. Nowadays, it's casual work for many with no rights, no security, low wages and poor conditions. A lot more stress these days.

And the reserve bank hasn't a clue. 'Oh, let's just lower interest rates, that'll fix it!'. Interest rates should never have dropped below about 3%. Now we're just scrapping the bottom of the barrel and being lined up for the firing squad.

We survived Tony Abbott, but will we survive Turnball? He's real great. Talks about foreign investment being our saviour. Might have worked decades ago when foreign companies came here, built factories, hired locals and produced something but these days when it comprises of buying local business's, shutting them down to remove competition, moving jobs offshore (because all this is exactly what happened to the last place I worked at) and pushing property prices up beyond the reach of the average Australian, then you can take your foreign investment and shove it. These days, policies like that benefit the big end of town only. This whole 'free trade' *smile* when it should have been 'fair trade'. As far as I'm now concerned, every import should be taxed to the point where it would have cost the same or less to have made it in Australia. And locally made goods should be consumed BEFORE any equivalent imports are allowed.

For all the criticism that Keating copped, at least he had the balls to have the 'recession we had to have' which is probably largely responsible for following period of economic stability. Failure to accept that the good comes with the bad isn't going to prevent a recession, it only delays it and likely makes it worse. But don't worry, you'll probably be dead by then and it'll be your kids or grandkids who'll pay for it. When you have incompetent politicians and capitalist pigs joining forces implementing self serving unsustainable policies, then it's going to come back and bite you on the bum one day. It's just a matter of when.
 

TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,175
22,114
57
antman said:
So the promised Western swing to the hard right following Brexit/Trump has fizzled out. First Macron spanked LePen in France and now things are looking bad for May and the Tories in the UK. Still early days, but a hung parliament looks likely. The hard right anti-immigration "UK for the whiteys" UKIP party looks like it has been wiped out.

Meanwhile in Australia we've already had our Trump moment. Thanks for the memories Tony! Fizza Turnbull is barely keeping his head above water and looks like another Labor government next election. Good times!

EDIT Jeremy Corbyn now favourite to be the next PM. The Dems should have gone with Bernie in the US, would have kicked Trump's arse.

DB1sF4IWAAQ13iK.jpg

Are you analysing via betting odds? :hihi


antman said:
If they are going to truly do a Trump they'd have to become Leader of the Liberal Party and then win the election.

Sorry kids, Tony Abbott is the closest to Trump you are ever going to get to Trump. Self-absorbed narcissist? Check. Climate change denier? Check. Loves coal and pollution? Check. Make America Great Again/"Team Australia"? Check. Lurching from one PR disaster to the next? Check.

1991 was a recession. One part was a lot of Melbourne employment in financial services packed their bags and headed to Sydney.
 

TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,175
22,114
57
1eyedtiger said:
Going along nicely? Wages - stagnated. Manufacturing - gone. Jobs - gone. Unemployment - Up, Debt - up. Cost of living - through the roof.

The only reason we haven't had a recession is because of dubious government policy and fiddling with the books. The definition of 'unemployed' these days is farcical. The official rate of inflation is equally farcical. Australia just follows the old adage 'If at first you don't succeed, redefine success'. And in your 70's, you could go from high school to a life long secure job. Nowadays, it's casual work for many with no rights, no security, low wages and poor conditions. A lot more stress these days.

And the reserve bank hasn't a clue. 'Oh, let's just lower interest rates, that'll fix it!'. Interest rates should never have dropped below about 3%. Now we're just scrapping the bottom of the barrel and being lined up for the firing squad.

We survived Tony Abbott, but will we survive Turnball? He's real great. Talks about foreign investment being our saviour. Might have worked decades ago when foreign companies came here, built factories, hired locals and produced something but these days when it comprises of buying local business's, shutting them down to remove competition, moving jobs offshore (because all this is exactly what happened to the last place I worked at) and pushing property prices up beyond the reach of the average Australian, then you can take your foreign investment and shove it. These days, policies like that benefit the big end of town only. This whole 'free trade' *smile* when it should have been 'fair trade'. As far as I'm now concerned, every import should be taxed to the point where it would have cost the same or less to have made it in Australia. And locally made goods should be consumed BEFORE any equivalent imports are allowed.

For all the criticism that Keating copped, at least he had the balls to have the 'recession we had to have' which is probably largely responsible for following period of economic stability. Failure to accept that the good comes with the bad isn't going to prevent a recession, it only delays it and likely makes it worse. But don't worry, you'll probably be dead by then and it'll be your kids or grandkids who'll pay for it. When you have incompetent politicians and capitalist pigs joining forces implementing self serving unsustainable policies, then it's going to come back and bite you on the bum one day. It's just a matter of when.

Agree 1eyed. As far as employment goes, I'm still wondering how fake this GFS still is after nearly 10 years.....or is it really over-population that still reduces job chances in this country?
 

year of the tiger

Tiger Legend
Mar 26, 2008
9,504
6,669
Tasmania
antman said:
If they are going to truly do a Trump they'd have to become Leader of the Liberal Party and then win the election.

Sorry kids, Tony Abbott is the closest to Trump you are ever going to get to Trump. Self-absorbed narcissist? Check. Climate change denier? Check. Loves coal and pollution? Check. Make America Great Again/"Team Australia"? Check. Lurching from one PR disaster to the next? Check.

Why the liberal party? - they could form their own party - establish a break away party and rip the heart out of the Libs.

You can't assume these days.

Abbott - again are you assuming our experiment with this type of politic is over and Australia won't return to the extreme right under another leader?

Abbott was extreme in my view which is what I think you are also saying but I think Turnbell is a "nicer or better speaking" version of Abbott and not quite as extreme.

Abbott you knew what you got. Turnbell has dramatically changed his views on some fundamental issues during his public life.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,149
15,003
year of the tiger said:
Why the liberal party? - they could form their own party - establish a break away party and rip the heart out of the Libs.

I'm just being pedantic yottt... Trump hijacked the GOP so for it to be similar Hanson would have to hijack the Liberals. But she already has her own party. Trump didn't, except he'd been a registered member of both the Republicans AND the Democrats in the past.


Abbott - again are you assuming our experiment with this type of politic is over and Australia won't return to the extreme right under another leader?

No, I'm challenging the view that Trump/Brexit etc was a global turn to the right which would be mirrored in Australia and elsewhere. Fizzled out.

Who knows what might happen in five years though. I think Australians will tend to reject radical leaders on both sides of politics though... well I suppose there was Whitlam.


Abbott was extreme in my view which is what I think you are also saying but I think Turnbell is a "nicer or better speaking" version of Abbott and not quite as extreme.

Abbott you knew what you got. Turnbell has dramatically changed his views on some fundamental issues during his public life.

Yes, agree... Turnbull by nature a moderate, but by practice has had to veer right to placate the nutjobs in the extreme right of his party. Abbott was always a populist, but always conservative and always negative.
 

year of the tiger

Tiger Legend
Mar 26, 2008
9,504
6,669
Tasmania
antman said:
No, I'm challenging the view that Trump/Brexit etc was a global turn to the right which would be mirrored in Australia and elsewhere. Fizzled out.

Who knows what might happen in five years though. I think Australians will tend to reject radical leaders on both sides of politics though... well I suppose there was Whitlam.

Yeah - It's almost impossible to predict at the moment. I still think the Brexit vote didn't fully reflect the views in the UK given they had such a low voter turnout from the youth. I see this election as more a correction. May has really stuffed that one up.

What I don't understand that given major parties are on the nose in so many countries is that an alternative hasn't emerged - maybe France electing Marcon came from nowhere but he is not a party.

I am not convinced Aust has finished with the extreme conservative experiment yet - they just lack a dynamic leader (as the left side does also)
 

KnightersRevenge

Baby Knighters is 7!! WTF??
Aug 21, 2007
6,787
1,229
Ireland
year of the tiger said:
Yeah - It's almost impossible to predict at the moment. I still think the Brexit vote didn't fully reflect the views in the UK given they had such a low voter turnout from the youth. I see this election as more a correction. May has really stuffed that one up.

What I don't understand that given major parties are on the nose in so many countries is that an alternative hasn't emerged - maybe France electing Marcon came from nowhere but he is not a party.

I am not convinced Aust has finished with the extreme conservative experiment yet - they just lack a dynamic leader (as the left side does also)

I do think the electorate has been trying to get through to the parties. Macron, Trump, Sanders, Corbyn. None of these are representatives of the traditional establishment. Of the 'political classes'. Politics has become (more of an) an insiders game where you use media rather than community action to keep the public informed.

But dynastic politics is on the nose. So is the 2 party system. I think the electorate is fractured along issues lines, not party affiliation - especially younger people - and they are voting to reflect that but the old beast is slow to adjust.

Trump HAD to run as a Republican to have a shot, he couldn't run as an Independant (which essentially he is) and get on the ballot. Ditto Sanders.

The Green vote and the Hanson vote in Aus are signals to the big parties. I think the big parties need to fracture into smaller issues led parties. Coalition governments are the future, just not the pretend coalition of Lib/Nat but actual across the spectrum minority coalitions that force disparate parties to work together.
 

jb03

Tiger Legend
Jan 28, 2004
33,856
12,108
Melbourne
The British Elections is like the Australian Election where the losing team celebrated like they had won simply because they didnt lose by as much as everyone thuoght they would.