Tigerland, it's a jungle out there for the unworthy (realfooty) | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Tigerland, it's a jungle out there for the unworthy (realfooty)

DragicevicFan

Tiger Legend
Dec 30, 2002
5,484
21
Melbourne
Tigerland, it's a jungle out there for the unworthy
July 15 2003
Robert Walls


Richmond is sinking fast - seven losses in a row, and a captain and vice-captain who won't play again this season. The Tigers can't kick a decent score, have plenty of irate supporters, and to top it off, they meet the fired-up Magpies on Friday night.

In years gone by, all of the above would have led to some serious bloodletting as frustrated, pressured, inept and unknowing administrators and officials would have fallen for the "someone has to pay" trick. After all, 13 changes of coach in a 26-year period is the Tigers' recent history.

Thankfully, that won't happen. And the reason why it won't is because Greg Miller is Richmond's director of football. In the job for less than a year, Miller isn't like so many of his predecessors. Miller is a realist.

In the '90s, on a tight budget, he shaped the Kangaroos to be the most competitive team of the decade. He doesn't play games. He tells it as it is. Just recently, he addressed the Tigers' board on where the current playing list is at. It would have been the most honest assessment given at Punt Road in years.

I suggest it would have gone something like this:


Top eight players

Wayne Campbell, Matthew Richardson, Brad Ottens, Darren Gaspar, Mark Coughlan, Andrew Kellaway, Joel Bowden, Kane Johnson.

Collectively, not as talented, smart, reliable and inspirational as most other teams.

Campbell is the best leader by a mile. Gaspar is intent on doing his job, but could be a greater presence and give more others. Richardson has good intentions, but lets himself down in the heat of the battle, so is therefore unreliable. Gaspar and Richo limit team flexibility as they are limited to the positions they can play.

Ottens is fighting the effects of surgery and, with his limited preparation, will struggle. Coughlan is on track to be a talented and tough leader for years to come. Andrew Kellaway is a solid citizen who gives his all, while Bowden is a rare but unfulfilled talent. Bowden could be one of the game's elite, if he was driven by a Voss or Buckley-type commitment. But, at 25, you doubt he can change his ways.

Johnson, a dual premiership player, is the best addition to the list in recent years. His no-nonsense, aggressive attack on the ball is sorely needed.

To compound matters, the injuries to Campbell and Gaspar mean both will have less time to help others, and both will probably struggle to reach great heights in 2004.

Of the top eight, only three could be satisfied with their seasons.They are Coughlan, Kellaway and Johnson. And that is a sad state of affairs.

Not up to it

At season's end, Craig Biddiscombe, Tim Fleming, Rory Hilton, Clinton King, Kayne Pettifer and Adam Houlihan should depart as they lack the qualities to make the Tigers a better side.

On notice

Justin Blumfield has got seven weeks to prove that he can help the Tigers. If he lacks the drive required, he should go. Ben Holland is another player at the crossroads. Never quick, a knee reconstruction hasn't helped.

Holland can play centre half-back, but only on the big, slow-type key forwards, and there's not many of them around. And with Richo and Ottens up forward, three giants would be one too many. The next seven weeks could well determine his future.

Time's up

Duncan Kellaway is 30. He missed much of last year and has played only 10 minutes of senior football this year. Despite being a magnificent servant of the club, Duncan's time is most likely up. The same applies to Matthew Rogers and Leon Cameron. Both give their all, but are now spare parts players. At 30-plus, their days are numbered. Best to build with youth.

Must be played

Now is a golden opportunity to give David Rodan, Andrew Krakouer, Aaron Fiora and Marc Dragicevic maximum game time.

Rodan and Krakouer will blossom, while Fiora and Dragicevic have above-average attributes and should be given the opportunity to gain confidence to finish the season on a high.

Payments

I would think Miller would be of the opinion that too many Tigers are grossly overpaid. From his Kangaroos' days, he would know how much premiership players such as Adam Simpson, Shannon Grant, Brent Harvey and David King get paid. Richmond's profile players would have received more and given less than their Kangaroo counterparts.

That will stop. Besides, who out of Punt Road would pay Campbell, Richo, Gaspar, Ottens and Holland what they currently get?

Over the next couple of seasons, it would be a brave and stupid Tiger who puts his hand up for more money.

Over the past 20 years, Richmond has risen a few of times, only to crash because of faulty foundations.

Now, with Miller in charge, you can guarantee there'll be a solid base.
 

diggler

The Tigers Spine
Dec 18, 2002
2,855
5
A fair description of were we are at. Down the toilet! Couldnt agree more with his assessment of the top 8, although I would put Chaffey ahead of that clown Bowden.
 

zacs56

Watch out, the Tigers are coming to get you!
Mar 31, 2003
684
0
Now do we have to wait and be patient when even other people who follow footy and get paid for it,can see what is wrong with Richmond .Those who have stood for the club up till now,you have really STUFFED up a once proud club.Miller has been in the joint for five minites and can see how it has been run into the ground.one name missing from this report is B E C K you ----head! It is good to see that a outsider can see what passionate supporters have been saying for the last 25 years.Spud ,Casey clean out the dead wood or gggggget on your bike or tractor what ever the case may be. Bowdo you have 7 weeks to play real footy and get your head out of your ---- or you can have a ride on that tractor to.
 

Koalalill

Just looking for someone else to curse!
Dec 17, 2002
1,118
0
diggler said:
A fair description of were we are at. Down the toilet! Couldnt agree more with his assessment of the top 8, although I would put Chaffey ahead of that clown Bowden.

Agreed Diggler - I would have Chaffey in the top eight and Bowden in the "On Notice" Category.

I think Wallsy - is pretty spot on with his assessment. Though I disagree with Blumfield. I think his injury was quite severe and next season is where should expect good output from Justin.

On Leon Cameron - I think it is worth trying to get 1 more year out of him. Play him in a similar way to Brodders final year. We clearly lack leaders and Leon is a fantastic leader both on and off the field.
 

tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
24,347
19,921
A fairly accurate analysis.

But we would not be in a position to do it in one year. On the list there wouldn't be any that are tradeable.

If Biddiscombe, Fleming, Hilton, King, Pettifer, Houlihan, Rogers, D. Kellaway, Cameron and add Mills and McGrath to his list were to go we would be left with a list of 25 players. With Campbell and gaspar not being ready until after the beginning of next season that takes the list down to 23. There has to be a question mark on Nicholls also as he was injury prone before we picked him up and things haven't improved on that front.

Hyde better start to get a game.

We are really being hurt by having a reduced squad due to previous administrations paying too much for overated players.

About all we can do is get rid of the uncontracted ones and keep the contracted ones.

It is going to be a crucial draft and trade period.
 

TigerFurious

Smooth
Dec 17, 2002
3,628
4,868
Generally good assessment by Walls.

I agree with others that Chaffey should be in the top 8 and Bowden on notice.

Regardless of trades etc I think the following must be delisted as a priorty:

Biddiscombe
King
Mills
Houlihan
Rogers
D Kellaway (only because he can't get fit)

Assuming there is a couple of trades we could reasonably expect 8 changes to the list. It might not seem like much but the system doesn't cater for wholesale changes and we need to leave some players to delist the following year.

IMHO the club should aim to add 8 new players to the list every year for the next 3 years. With at least 2 thirds of those young draftees.
 

Rosy

Tiger Legend
Mar 27, 2003
54,348
31
My gut feeling is that if Danny stays Dunc will stay.

His latest injury wasn't a soft tissue or lack of fitness type injury, and he can go on the veterans list.

If it comes to fitness Campbo has really struggled in that dept this year too.

If Rogo can't be traded he'll still be around next season. They can't afford to delist contracted players.

Or can they?

I think like last season our list will be shaped by who has a contract and who doesn't, rather than who deserves to go.
 

shawry

Tiger Legend
Apr 14, 2003
5,630
431
Adelaide, Australia
Agree Chaffey should be there added ot the best. No doubt.

Dotn think Rogers should be delisted he still ahs value and veteran presence and can play some roles. Even if he does play a lot of games at Coburg he is a handy replacement for injured players although i still ahve him in my best 22.

Delist: Mills, Houlihan, Biddiscombe, King, Sipthorpe (cant get a game at Coburg dont think he will make it, but i guesso n a2 year contract so maybe persist with him), Nicholls.
Duncan Kellaway will retire. Hopefully Leon Cameron doesnt retire but it is possible.

Trade: Bowden for very early draft picks.
 

Dean3

Older than I've ever been
Dec 17, 2002
2,954
0
Melbourne
I'd add Vardy to the cut/trade list. He's got neither body strength nor speed - you need at least one of those to make it at the top level. Would prefer to see us draft a couple of talls than keep him as 'insurance'.
 

shawry

Tiger Legend
Apr 14, 2003
5,630
431
Adelaide, Australia
I think we need ot keep Vardy due to our injury proned talls and lack of them. He does a decent job every time he plays seniors and i think he is a handy backup bit parts tall player.
 

Rosy

Tiger Legend
Mar 27, 2003
54,348
31
I'd like to see the club show some faith in Royce and play him from now on.

There are 7 weeks left (plus finals if we listen to the club ;D) for him to really show what he can do.

If players are backed for the rest of the year and aren't up to it, then at least we won't be left wondering.

I'd like that for Hyde too. Maybe it's a bit much expecting Mills to get a chance. I know people bag those two, but they can't be any worse than Pettifer who's been given a ton of chances to show what he hasn't got.
 

shawry

Tiger Legend
Apr 14, 2003
5,630
431
Adelaide, Australia
Rosy: I still disagree with your point that Pettifer has had chances. I dont consider on and off the bench and then when he is on being played out of position to be called chances. Give him full games on a wing and see what he can give us too.
 

Rosy

Tiger Legend
Mar 27, 2003
54,348
31
I disagree with that shawry. ;D

Imo you pick the best players for the position, not because that position is what they are best at.

If Pettifer isn't better than the people we play on the wing he doesn't deserve to be there.

He isn't fit enough to play there for starters, have you seen how quickly he runs out of puff when he has to work?

He has had a power of chances compared to other players. He hasn't done anything while out there to stake his claim.

He has an over inflated ego, and automatic selection just fuels that.

If he pulling of contests, if refusing to chase or shepherd, if his main attribute is sooking to umpires for frees, if hunting around the edge of packs pretending he's trying to do something are the way he plays the game then he doesn't deserve to be there imo.

P.S. shawry, if you pm me your e-mail i'll tell you some stories, ha. ;)
 
P

PuntRoadRoar

Guest
dont get too excited guys

expect our team list this week to look something like:


Ins: King & Hilton
Outs: Campbell & Johnson

Emergency: Shulz,Vardy,Fiora
 

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
24,588
12,184
Miller will find out the hard way that the problem with the club is the coach. There needs to be changes on the list - like at all clubs - but when you have nobrains frawly directing traffic you'll go nowhere. We'll be here same time next year in the same position talking about the same issues.
 

mightytiges

The greatest Tiger of them all - Jack Dyer R.I.P.
Dec 16, 2002
1,195
0
A fair and pretty spot on assessment by Walls. Like others I would have Chaffey or Stafford in our best 8 ahead of Bowden.

It been mentioned on the board before that the club has never made a forthright decision on whether to rebuild or go for the premiership. We need to rebuild and be ruthless at it. it'll take at least 3 years to turn over our whole list (I agree with TF 8-9 players a year must go). That means for 30+ guys like Duncan and Leon, they should retire at season's end. I would have Rogers way before the other two but he's contracted for one more year so he'll stay (play him permantly at Coburg next year). Cambo should be our only 30+ senior player next year.

Retire - Duncan, Leon
Delist - Bidders, King, Houlihan, Hilton, Mills, Pettifer, Hyde
delisted rookies: Pickering.

Vardy won't be part of our plans in the future but will stay IMO as a back up tall. Most sides have 13 talls on their list. We have only 9 :(.

Trades should only be for either a gun player or more preferable top draft picks. No more average or fringe players. Never ever. No trading a tall for a small.

We have been pathetic in using the rookie list. Tivs is our only rookie listed player to step up to senior football. We need to use it wisely and profitably from now on.

Guys who IMO are safe: Cambo, Gas, Stafford, Cogs, Johnson, AK, Newman.
 

gdbarrett

Some more New-men please.
Jun 18, 2003
67
0
Albury
Our second teir eight "Tiva, Staff, Chaffy, Blumfield, Holland, Hall, Newman and Zantuck" would give the top eight a fair run.
 

SkiddyMcGhee

Us and Them, Over and Over again
Jan 29, 2003
661
77
Sandringham, Melbourne
An honest assessment by Walls, although I thought the Blumfield comments were too harsh. The rest, well for some there is no hope. I would keep Cameron for another, as he is probably the best foot skilled payer at the club.

I have a lot of confidence in Miller to do what is needed given his pedigree. But it will be one of the most important trade/drafts in the clubs history. If they stuff it up, then expect the same for the next 3-5 years or worse.

Do it right and they can recover within 1-2 years.
 

gdbarrett

Some more New-men please.
Jun 18, 2003
67
0
Albury
Spot on Skiddy. A few good players in the right spots will make a big difference to us. As much as the media like to portray it differently - the good teams aren't that good and the bad aren't that bad.

I agree about blumfield, but I'm not sure about Cameron. He stood up last weekend but his lack of pace is sometimes a lliability.