Why do we need a new coach?

[tigerjoe]

Lets face it, everyone on this forum wants Richmond to win premierships and be successful for as long as possible.
This hasn't happened since the 70's and we are light years away it seems from any success.

Most of the topics here are about who we are going to keep on our playing list and a lot of posts are about getting rid of Frawley.
I throw my weight behind what most of us are saying, but would like to add this pertinent and undeniable fact about Coaches and sustained success.

Looking at Premierships since 1981 here are the teams and respective coaches.
1981 Carlton D.Parkin
1982 Carlton D.Parkin
1983 Hawthorn A.Jeans
1984 Essendon K.Sheedy
1985 Essendon K.Sheedy
1986 Hawthorn A.Jeans
1987 Carlton D.Parkin
1988 Hawthorn A.Jeans
1989 Hawthorn A.Jeans
1990 Collingwood L.Matthews
1991 Hawthorn A.Joyce
1992 West Coast M.Malthouse
1993 Essendon K.Sheedy
1994 West Coats M.Malthouse
1995 Carlton D.Parkin
1996 Nth Melb D.Pagan
1997 Adelaide M.Blight
1998 Adelaide M.Blight
1999 Nth Melb D.Pagan
2000 Essendon K.Sheedy
2001 Brisbane L.Matthews
2002 Brisbane L.Matthews
Look further back and you will see the same thing.

Can anyone see a pattern?

Only the good coaches win flags!

The Richmond Football Club will not have sustained success or Premierships to its name until we get a coach who demands respect, who the players know will not take any crap, disciplines everyone from boot studder to the board and has the football brains to match.
Those in question are Matthews, Sheedy, Pagan and Malthouse.
Forget the rest except maybe Paul Roos.

As everyone has seen today/this year Paul Roos is no mug, and neither are the Sydney supporters.
They did eveything they could to keep him and look what has happened. They have gone from nothing to who knows maybe a Grand final.
And what sort of change was made to their playing list from last year?
Only a few changes and they are flying.
WHY?
Because they have a coach who demands respect and has the football brains.
Mr Frawley I'm sorry you do not have either as you have shown in 3 out of your 4 seasons.

Little needs to be said about Collingwood, as much as I hate them & Eddie, they did was was needed, sacked a sh!thouse coach in Shaw and got one of the best in Malthouse.

As long as those in power choose to stay with the likes of Frawley, Crocker, Wheadon, Brittain etc we will go nowhere.
4 Years is long enough to prove yourself.

Heaven and Earth need to be moved to get us a
"REAL COACH".
Without one we are just wasting our time.
Greg Miller and Clinton Casey open your eyes and look at the past and proven Premiership formulas.
In this game History always repeats.

Maybe like the Swans supporters we need to send our club a message because they sure as hell can't see it!

 

[vladz]

I always thought that Sheeds will be a great coach at Tigerland. He know how to control a team and he know how to play rough which wins you games, not gutsless and crapy footy, PLZ Sheeds, Come Back.

 

[22]

As a Richmond member l'll go and watch the tigers every week with my to kids because l love the club, but as you pointed out tigerjoe I won't take the tigers seriously until they go and buy the best (Sheedy, Malthouse etc..) You can buy good players but l fill they still need the right directon

 

[sgloury]

I agree with much of what has been said. I don't think that Spud is the coach to return us to our glory days.

It did get me thinking though. When was the last time that a decent proven coach was in charge of the Tigers?

In the past 20 years, I can only think of 1 coach that we have had that was considered a proven topline coach by the time he came to Tigerland - That was Yabby Jeans when he took over from KB in the early 90s.

And what happened - We went backwards under Yabby in one of our worst ever seasons. I think that Yabby was all washed up though by the time he came on board as coach at Punt Road.

Lets hope that Sheedy is not in the same boat if we ever lure him back as coach.

 

[EyeOfTheTiger]

Listening to Roos speak before the game he never said one negative thing.
He said they'd go over and enjoy themselves. I doubt he considered the consequences of losing. They believed they would win.
If it was Richmond going over Frawley would have been saying how hard it will be and how they'll have to try and grind it out.
The power of positive thinking and self belief. Frawley must be the worst team motivator in existance. He has them losing before the first bounce.

 

[Ox]

Listening to Roos speak before the game he never said one negative thing.
He said they'd go over and enjoy themselves. I doubt he considered the consequences of losing. They believed they would win.
If it was Richmond going over Frawley would have been saying how hard it will be and how they'll have to try and grind it out.
The power of positive thinking and self belief. Frawley must be the worst team motivator in existance. He has them losing before the first bounce.

Kenoath .
Frawley is missing the"communication" chromosome. Most times he struggles to put words to anything let alone address the team on game day.Imagine being subjected to this moron every day of your playing career.Eventually he's gonna have an effect.
We will, once he has gone need a psychologist to de-program the players from their last 4 years in pergutory.
burn danny burn.

 

[gustiger12]

There is a proven coach sitting out in the wind by the name of WALLACE.

He has not won a premiership as a coach, but he went close with an average list and average support staff. He has played in a premiership and more importantly has worn the yellow and black.

What are we waiting for. If their is someone better then please let us know.

We must go for the best available and until someone can convince me otherwise then what the hell are we waiting for.

Take our opportunities and go for it.....

 

[Ridley]

Magnificent post Tigerjoe. I was thinking exactly the same thing. Only great coaches win premierships in recent times and Mr Potatohead is as close to being a great coach as I am. He is an out and out football loser and we will be crap whilst he is at the helm because he refuses to get rid of players with extreme deficiencies in their game (which is most of our list). If he was as honest as he tells everyone he is he would resigin immediately and let us commence a fair dinkum rebuilding process, not a half arsed one that'll give us 6 or 7 wins per year every year.

I also agree with Gustiger, Wallace is a great coach in waiting. What he did with the Bulldogs was phenomenal. They were a good ordinary bunch of footballers, no better. He took them from 15th (a soon to be defunct Fitzroy the only team below them) in 1996 to within a kick of the GF the next year (I still believe that Libba kick was a goal). Prelim Final the year after and had them in the finals 4 out of 6 years. I reckon he could become a great coach at a big club like Richmond that could potentially offer him great resources.

I think we are very lucky that Hawthorn improved immensely in that 2nd half of this year and Schwab retained his job. It means that Wallace will be available at the end of next year when Richmond again finishes 12 or worst with 6 or 7 wins and Casey, Miller and all the other imbeciles in charge at the club finally give away the charade and not renew Frawley's contract. Although I'm sure there are some out there who just love the mediocrity and the ineptitude and will push for Potato to get a new 3 year contract. :-\

I would love to get one of Malthouse, Sheedy, Matthews or Pagan to the club. The first 3 just simply ain't gonna happen. Pagan is interesting as Carlton are in such trouble he may just get jack of it, though I doubt it. The only other great coach possibility is Blight. Although he would have to have the burning desire that he so obviously didn't have at St.Kilda. Otherwise there's only one choice: Wallace. ;D

 

[Dean3]

I agree to some extent Tigerjoe, but new premiership coaches have to come from somewhere — Pagan, Sheedy, Malthouse and Matthews can't coach forever. And to state the bleeding obvious, none of those guys had coached a premiership before their first one!
Personally I don't accept that it's impossible to win a flag unless one of those four guys coach your team. What our club needs to do is focus on building the structure and processes that produce winning sides and winning cultures, not dream of a coach coming along to fix it for us. If you start on the foundations, the rest is much more likely to happen than if you continually start on the top floor.
Ask not what a coach can do for our club, ask what our club can do for a coach!

 

[tigerjoe]

Point taken Dean3 but I am not saying that we cannot accept anyone but the "Fab Four".
You can see that the players at Sydney have a different attitude with Roos, so too do the Eagles with Worsfold & Freo with Connolly.
Coaches like Frawley, Thompson, Rhode etc don't have what it takes, their records speak for themselves.
Yes coaches have to start somewhere, but let them do their learning elsewhere.
Their is no half measure, do whatever it takes to get a good coach and the rest will follow.
Long lost members will return, attendances go up, players are taught positives not negatives, sponsors will follow and success will come in large quantities not in one year spurts.
One thing that Jack Elliot did that was his last saving grace was securing Pagan, some might say he has ruined Carlton but I guarantee that Pagan will do wonders in the next 3-5 years.
Sheedy rescued Essendon, Matthews and Pagan did the same, Malthouse has sewn his seeds and the fruit is on the trees.

Terry Wallace needs to be given the chance.

 

[PMac]

I agree with you precisely Tigerjoe. Every now and then a club is going to have to take a chance and give a new coach a try. However, after his years at the Tigers, Spud has been given a really good go and shown pretty clearly that he doesnt have what it takes to take us to a flag.

Personally I reakon Wallace may just have what it takes and in particular I think the areas he's strongest in; skill, planning and committment are the aera's we are weakest and so would be a good fit.

PS. This recruiting/trading period has got to be Becks last change also - surely.

 

[Roar34]

Good one, Tigerjoe! And I agree with you also, Gus. Wallace would seem to be the only available coach who is not actually coaching at the moment, but whether he would accept the offer is another matter. He had a hardness in his playing days and in his time with the Bulldogs, he put meaning back into the term "scragger".

I get tired of knocking Frawley but did anyone notice the look Tommy Hafey gave him when TH was giving that pre-game talk to the team? Enough said.

 

[Ox]

Getting Wallace would be like going out of the pan and into the fire.By appointing him as coach we still have no guarantee of prolonged success. Collingwood targeted malthouse (a working coach ) and landed him. Why then can't we target a working coach with grand final experience for 05 (Matthews, Sheedy,Pagan Malthouse,Ayers).
This would be be a better strategy than cruising the back streets of loserdom, searching for an answer.Every man has his price.
Stranger things happen. 8)

 

[Hungry]

Good point, it shows that there aren't many really good coaches out there.

We have to be very careful and considered when we get our next one. No point sacking Frawley now because there is no guarantee that we'll get a good coach. If it means that we have to put up with another season under Danny then so be it.

By the way, all those blokes are pretty good communicators. Danny is a dreadful communicator to the public, so what's he like with the players? Makes me wonder...

 

[Rosy]

PS. This recruiting/trading period has got to be Becks last change also - surely.

Would Beck be contracted for a certain period? If not I guess if he was going to get the chop it would have to be soon after the trade/draft period.

Whoever replaces him needs time to suss things out to our advantage ready for the 2004 draft.

 

[Ox]

PS. This recruiting/trading period has got to be Becks last change also - surely.

Whoever replaces him needs time to suss things out to our advantage ready for the 2004 draft.

Here's hoping Greg Miller already has that problem worked out and is just waiting to implement the plan.

 

[Ruthless Tigers ?]

The threads that have stemmed from the intial topic are all based on sound fact and optimism. They clearly indicate the problem and some cold hard facts.

Clearly Dud cannot string two words together witht he media who in their wisdom and with all their journalistic wisdom cannot decipher his weekly press conferences... "Yeah Nah". Communication is the key. As for respect I thought he was going to instill that when he cracked em with Ottens for being D&D a few years back but that has all changed now.

Richmond does not need a super coach...Paul Roos showed that, Terry Wallace showed that and Connolly has proved that. What is needed is one that is repected by players not one who demands respect. Anyone who can communicate can do the job well. We only have to read todays Herald Sun to see that. (Article on Ashburton Redbacks).

Sheedy at Richmond...hmmm lets see who returns first Sheedy or KB?

For mine Terry Wallace (perhaps the last decent #16) would make an ideal coach. Like Roos he is a respected person, has youth, has tasted success at Hawthorn and played at RIchmond albeit for a short period he therefore knows the place, knows what is required and will do what is required and like Roos he has shwon that even with a minimal list you can still achieve greatness....basically what the heart can believe the mind can achieve....Roos has players palying for each other witht he common goal of success. Turn the clock back a few years and we see Terry Wallace.