Coronavirus

[RoarEmotion]

Ok how's this. Do u think people should be rewarded by police ( since they are asking people) by dobbing in protester? Great citizens of the community stuff.

I have no issue with cops arresting or doing their job at the protests.

Im anti protests under these current health conditions ( in fact the BLM 1 example ) shldve have be fined or arrested in line how the govt had dealt with many other protests.

How is this any different to crimestoppers? A crime is a crime whether or not a police person observes it. (If i read your point correctly)

are people getting rewarded? (other than feeling good or something non material). Whistleblowing often blows back on the whistleblower and hard.

whether you think the law is valid or not is a different topic.

double standards don’t help with regards to BLM As leaves you weak from a leadership position but two wrongs don’t make a right as well. So if they screwed that up then they shouldnot double down on the screw up.

but yeah you’ve changed the topic.

vax permits will change vax behavior
people dying will change vax behavior
feel good campaigns and education I feel will do little to move people stuck in their non vax world of ideas Unless it starts young and this takes years. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...n-finlands-new-lessons-in-combating-fake-news

 

[Brodders17]

Option 2 thanks.

options 2 might mean never ending lockdowns, continued compulsory mask wearing and restrictions on the entire community.

do you have an issue with people being refused entry to shops etc if they refuse to wear a mask?

 

[BT Tiger]

I wouldn't bother trying to rationalise with someone who's main news channel is Sky News. That network is poison for the brain.

 

[Al Bundy]

options 2 might mean never ending lockdowns, continued compulsory mask wearing and restrictions on the entire community.

do you have an issue with people being refused entry to shops etc if they refuse to wear a mask?

Option 2 "might". Masks to vax is totally diffirent. Clutching at straws.

 

[Al Bundy]

I wouldn't bother trying to rationalise with someone who's main news channel is Sky News. That network is poison for the brain.

If you are referring to me u are wrong. I personally watch various channels said so in the past. ABC run agendas on fake news too but I watch it.
Some people too make stupid assumptions and think they know better, but hey maybe their minds are blinded without knowing any better. Agree u cant rationalise with them.

 

[Brodders17]

Option 2 "might". Masks to vax is totally diffirent. Clutching at straws.

Not trying to clutch at straws, you said earlier if people want to put themselves at risk by attending events without being vaccinated they should be able to.
But if people want to put themselves at risk by attending events without wearing a mask they should not be able to?

and to clarify, you are happy for the country to have continued, ongoing risk of lockdowns from virus numbers exploding rather than stop those who choose not be vaccinated from attending large events where the risk of transmission is strong? and the resultant financial pain, mental health issues, and education delays?
or would you be happy for the country to just be open, and risk large numbers of deaths and severe illnesses? (with the large financial costs this would lead to.)

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Our system of government does not encourage people taking responsibility, you hear people say "It's not illegal, therefore I can do it" - responsibility outsourced to government and then complaints when governments impose restrictions. We should be able to take responsibility and consider the whole community when acting, but the system does not encourage this. We are seeing the limits of outsourcing responsibility.

Letting people run their own race where the weakest link brings the whole sh!thouse down is not workable. Gladys needs to whack her constituents into line and has been afraid to do so.

 

[Al Bundy]

How is this any different to crimestoppers? A crime is a crime whether or not a police person observes it. (If i read your point correctly)

are people getting rewarded? (other than feeling good or something non material). Whistleblowing often blows back on the whistleblower and hard.

whether you think the law is valid or not is a different topic.

double standards don’t help with regards to BLM As leaves you weak from a leadership position but two wrongs don’t make a right as well. So if they screwed that up then they shouldnot double down on the screw up.

but yeah you’ve changed the topic.

vax permits will change vax behavior
people dying will change vax behavior
feel good campaigns and education I feel will do little to move people stuck in their non vax world of ideas Unless it starts young and this takes years. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...n-finlands-new-lessons-in-combating-fake-news

Good post. Like it. yeah close.

Crimminals being refused healthcare was one of the pts. We dont, likewise no matter what we think about antivax, protestors or whatever. its bs to say.

Govt f'd up with BLM, irrespectic of the cause(not my issue) and what anyone thought.

Blowback does occur & hard. Family has lived in a toxic town many yrs ago. Wont go into it, can & probably get nasty

 

[Al Bundy]

Not trying to clutch at straws, you said earlier if people want to put themselves at risk by attending events without being vaccinated they should be able to.
But if people want to put themselves at risk by attending events without wearing a mask they should not be able to?

and to clarify, you are happy for the country to have continued, ongoing risk of lockdowns from virus numbers exploding rather than stop those who choose not be vaccinated from attending large events where the risk of transmission is strong? and the resultant financial pain, mental health issues, and education delays?
or would you be happy for the country to just be open, and risk large numbers of deaths and severe illnesses? (with the large financial costs this would lead to.)

Its cool.
I have no issues with mask rules but I have an issue with forced vax (direct or indirectly). Its should be choice. I got vax but thats me

Both the feds & states truly dont have a proper plan out of what is occuring. Its a govt decision, rest like u,me any1 else, just opinions that truly become irrelevant. Vax is the way out (I believe) & said it a number times before but at what point (or vax rate) we go back to normal?

 

[BT Tiger]

If you are referring to me u are wrong. I personally watch various channels said so in the past. ABC run agendas on fake news too but I watch it.
Some people too make stupid assumptions and think they know better, but hey maybe their minds are blinded without knowing any better. Agree u can rationalise with them.

Yes I was and ok maybe you do watch other sources, but you have referenced some of their more bizarre talking points in other threads, e.g. Albo and the charging electric vehicles at night thing.

We all have our preferred news sources but i find Sky News creepy in how continually wrong it has been throughout this pandemic. It is news organisations like them which has led to the recent protests against lock downs with their undermining of health experts advising government decisions. Now even the PM himself has finally admitted that lock downs are necessary, yet Sky have been bashing Gladys for locking down Sydney. If they're gonna bash her, it should be not locking down hard enough, not that she shouldn't have implemented one at all!

 

[Al Bundy]

Yes I was and ok maybe you do watch other sources, but you have referenced some of their more bizarre talking points in other threads, e.g. Albo and the charging electric vehicles at night thing.

We all have our preferred news sources but i find Sky News creepy in how continually wrong it has been throughout this pandemic. It is news organisations like them which has led to the recent protests against lock downs with their undermining of health experts advising government decisions. Now even the PM himself has finally admitted that lock downs are necessary, yet Sky have been bashing Gladys for locking down Sydney. If they're gonna bash her, it should be not locking down hard enough, not that she shouldn't have implemented one at all!

Albo is useless imo. Like a fruit cake to me. Flips, flops BS opinions just for votes, he has NFI (no F idea). Scomo, unless his cahounas are squeezed tight enough and rammed in a corner he only acts then. This country lacks really strong leadership in its most critical period in yrs.

I do also watch a bit of Q&A and ABC, but ABC can go hard on BS facts too & hidden agendas. Much of a muchness. Hate Alan J fwiw on Sky, cant stand him either.
I think though some of the questioning on bizzare health advise by others is warranted. (not referring to AJones - edited in)

Did u hear what SA did, I worry when a govt goes to such extremes with the power they have and no-one blinks an eye. Reporters just jokes with this person over what happened. Police went and herded them all up. People at winery

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

 

[Sintiger]

Yeah, thats because you didn't lockdown quick enough and have overwhelmed your contact tracers. VIC seem to be handling this spread well, we manage to get there before they become infectious and thats purely because we locked down early and hard.

This is the issue. You have to stop people moving around so you stop or at least limit new infections. Once that is done then the contact tracers can catch up to the point where they are reducing the time between a positive case and putting their direct contacts in isolation.

That is the only way. Apart from waiting for 2022 to come and enough people are vaccinated

 

[mrposhman]

Yes I was and ok maybe you do watch other sources, but you have referenced some of their more bizarre talking points in other threads, e.g. Albo and the charging electric vehicles at night thing.

We all have our preferred news sources but i find Sky News creepy in how continually wrong it has been throughout this pandemic. It is news organisations like them which has led to the recent protests against lock downs with their undermining of health experts advising government decisions. Now even the PM himself has finally admitted that lock downs are necessary, yet Sky have been bashing Gladys for locking down Sydney. If they're gonna bash her, it should be not locking down hard enough, not that she shouldn't have implemented one at all!

This is a great article about crap spouted on Sky News and there being no accountability.

I 100% expect this to be used by the groups that don't want lockdowns / vaccinations but because of no major apology / retraction etc most won't see the retraction and will continue to believe these "truths" that are nothing short of lies.

If Sky can put Jones’ dangerous stuff to air, what can’t you put on Australian TV?

The broadcasting watchdog doesn’t have the teeth to bite down on Alan Jones’ anti-vaxxer nonsense.

www.smh.com.au

 

[mrposhman]

This is the issue. You have to stop people moving around so you stop or at least limit new infections. Once that is done then the contact tracers can catch up to the point where they are reducing the time between a positive case and putting their direct contacts in isolation.

That is the only way. Apart from waiting for 2022 to come and enough people are vaccinated

Agree and this is why I have no confidence in Kerry Chant and her "health advice" or at least the health advice she provides that is acted upon.

Only a couple of weeks ago she was asked a question about why the shops were open, and she claimed they had never experienced transmission of the virus in shops (completely missing the point of why they were closed) and now low and behold, they have transmission in shops.

So they didn't close shops due to mobility (which is the reason we did) and now only act after transmission. Talk about the tail wagging the dog.

 

[MD Jazz]

Its so obvious isn't it. She was always we, we, we when things were going well. Now any chance she gets, its "the health advice" or "Dr Chants health advice" etc.

There is a clear difference between that and the VIC approach, which seems more collaborative, either they all do well, or they all fall under that bus. Gladys is looking for her scapegoat and has been since the outbreak began and she found her very easily.

Jenny Mikakos says hello.

 

[The_General]

No not at all
Protect the elderly vulnerable and move on
For those who live in fear
Good luck to you all
I don’t live in fear nor do I wear a mask
What the Victorian Government have done to small and medium business in Victoria is criminal
Also every AFL is in serious financial trouble
FACT !!
Go and wear you masks and obey the rules now !

Having two close acquaintances with family members who have died, both in their 30s and with no medical conditions die, I think you're got your head in the wrong game. One of the deceased was a result of the Vic second wave, the other died from delta in India.
I have had (extended) family in the UK and friends (hubby and wife) in rural France who've had COVID. The folks in France had to share an oxygen tank between the two of them. They basically lived in their lounge for three months, as they couldn't cope walking up or downstairs. Both at times felt so much pain, they were at times hoping to die. The husband still has respiratory problems - and they got rid of the virus in October 2020.
It's because of our strict controls we aren't in similar predicament. Begrateful that we live on an island where we can do a lot to keep it out. But we're not impenetrable, and when it does get hold, as much as I'm sick to my *smile* back teeth of lockdown. I'll back it again.
Our economy was screwed coming into Covid. Our stance with China isn't helping. Our financial woes aren't all because of covid.

 

[BT Tiger]

Albo is useless imo. Like a fruit cake to me. Flips, flops BS opinions just for votes, he has NFI (no F idea). Scomo, unless his cahounas are squeezed tight enough and rammed in a corner he only acts then. This country lacks really strong leadership in its most critical period in yrs.

I do also watch a bit of Q&A and ABC, but ABC can go hard on BS facts too & hidden agendas. Much of a muchness. Hate Alan J fwiw on Sky, cant stand him either.
I think though some of the questioning on bizzare health advise by others is warranted. (not referring to AJones - edited in)

Did u hear what SA did, I worry when a govt goes to such extremes with the power they have and no-one blinks an eye. Reporters just jokes with this person over what happened. Police went and herded them all up. People at winery

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

I feel very similarly about Scott Morrison that you do about Albo. Fair enough, lets leave it at that (but he doesn't believe you can get solar power at nighttime!!!)

I can't say i did hear about the SA incident, i just had a quick glance through the article and I'm inclined to take the view of the CHO. Nicole Spurrier isn't a dummy, she and her team know more than the average joe about public health. Its a shame that it inconveniences a bunch of people but that's the way the cookie crumbles in a pandemic. Its also why the massive protests in Sydney were so shocking over the weekend, how do so many people decide they know more than the health experts? In my opinoin, the likes of Sky News enable this recklessness through their constant criticism of lockdowns and questioning of health experts.

I'm surprised i was able to view the article TBH, usually these links are pay-walled.

 

[BT Tiger]

This is a great article about crap spouted on Sky News and there being no accountability.

I 100% expect this to be used by the groups that don't want lockdowns / vaccinations but because of no major apology / retraction etc most won't see the retraction and will continue to believe these "truths" that are nothing short of lies.

If Sky can put Jones’ dangerous stuff to air, what can’t you put on Australian TV?

The broadcasting watchdog doesn’t have the teeth to bite down on Alan Jones’ anti-vaxxer nonsense.

www.smh.com.au

Terrible isn't it? And then you've got the likes of Clive Palmer spreading misinformation directly to households via mail/radio. Suggesting that "200 people have died since receiving the Covid Vaccine!!!!" - conveniently leaving out who died and when (e.g. aged care occupants).

My grandma pulled a nice gag on my old man recently with these. When he dropped in one afternoon she told him she'd received "an important piece of public information" and showed him one of Clive's letters. She announced she had promptly cancelled her 2nd AZ shot accordingly. Dad said he remained calm on the outside but was panicking internally

Of course she was pulling his leg but I there would be some people who would fall for *smile* like that!

 

[RoarEmotion]

Its cool.
I have no issues with mask rules but I have an issue with forced vax (direct or indirectly). Its should be choice. I got vax but thats me

Both the feds & states truly dont have a proper plan out of what is occuring. Its a govt decision, rest like u,me any1 else, just opinions that truly become irrelevant. Vax is the way out (I believe) & said it a number times before but at what point (or vax rate) we go back to normal?

Ok got it. We can agree to disagree on indirect pressure to vax. Everyone draws a different line on where the group rights are more important than the individuals’ rights.

this isn’t China forced sterilisation to do one child policy.

it’s paternalistic at worst.

how do you feel on smoking and passive smoking and laws that ban an individuals’ freedom to smoke in certain areas?

smoking being banned at indoor venues is one of the best things IMO. It provides an indirect and social pressure to quit but also protects other people from getting cancer and that *smile* smell in their clothes.

I see a vaccine passport pretty much no differently to this. It provides pressures on individuals that helps them and provides a benefit to all society.

I don’t see it as a slippery slope to other things as that would have already happened after passive smoking laws.

 

[DavidSSS]

Letting people run their own race where the weakest link brings the whole sh!thouse down is not workable. Gladys needs to whack her constituents into line and has been afraid to do so.

Attempting to police every person in the community simply does not work, as your very example shows.

We live in an individualist society where people are encouraged to seek out advantage over others. It is an antagonistic society where each individual is out for themselves. It should surprise nobody that such a society has people breaking rules which only have a basis in authority from above.

If we move to a society which is more community minded, which relies more on consensus, we reduce, and maybe one day remove, the need for authority.

The individualistic society we live in is showing its faults.

DS