2021 Draft Thread

[turk-d-tiger]

My Freo mate reckons they will take Erasmus first and then Johnson if given the opportunity.
I hope we get one.

Im thinking they will take 2 of Amiss / Erasmus / johnson plus their 2 academy players

 

[Aegean Tiger]

Rachele - Kicking is hugely damaging and when he gets involved there's usually a score, whether that be his own input or a score assist. He's an inside player needing some coaching with regards to his outside game - much easier to do than the other way around. Don't particularly like the Greene comparison because Toby was a mid who became a forward, his tank was also much more evolved. I see Rachele as more of a Robbie Gray type, will probably take just as long but if he does manage to cut it in the centre square he will surely add a silky component. Downside is he never builds the aerobic capacity but not a terrible floor if you consider the importance of Heeney, Gray, Greene etc.

Love the fact that he is an elite kick with high score involvement. Goal kicking mids are gold. Mmmm, Milan to Minsk...get excited!

 

[turk-d-tiger]

Now that is a huge trade! The golden block of three picks makes planning super easy.

Im thinking with 3 picks in a row we will now take 1 defender with 1 of these picks
Rhett Bazzo would be my thinking and the only team i see jumping in prior to #26 would be Norf with #20 but they may consider this a reach
But they do have alot of young mids now.

 

[Redford]

For those that maybe haven’t seen him, for a great example of Rachele’s kicking ability go to 1:28:22 in the video below.

 

[bullus_hit]

Im thinking with 3 picks in a row we will now take 1 defender with 1 of these picks
Rhett Bazzo would be my thinking and the only team i see jumping in prior to #26 would be Norf with #20 but they may consider this a reach
But they do have alot of young mids now.

I think I prefer Alleer as a key defender, he's already two years into his apprenticeship, the signs look good from a developmental perspective too, he's really using his leap to gain maximum advantage. I think you could make a definitive call in two years so he won't be a list clogger either.

If there's a compelling case for Bazzo's forward credentials then that may change my thinking.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

Yeah on a pure value exchange basis Cwood have gotten overs from us.

This is what I’ve been going on about for a few weeks. The fact we couldn’t get a first preference deal done with the Dogs or Cwood for 17 or 19 left us with excess picks that we critically needed to offload on a second best option basis. Cwood and others knew this so they’ve extracted overs from us. We really did get ourselves into a bit of a corner.

Oh well, could have been worse. We avoided being left with unused Draft capital or having to make undesirable de listings which would have been a disaster. Plus we get a string of three Draft picks in a row in THIS Draft which is good.

I think you are being harsh on our club here

Bulldogs traded out #17 for #23 , #44 , #45 which is 1719 points
at the time we didnt have #38 or #40 and our picks were 7.15.26.28,42,47. We would have had to have traded out 26,28,47 to even match the deal they had gotten. that would have been crazy and we wouldnt have got the north/cj deal done for next years 2nd rounder

 

[Tortured Tiger]

I think you are being harsh on our club here

Bulldogs traded out #17 for #23 , #44 , #45 which is 1719 points
at the time we didnt have #38 or #40 and our picks were 7.15.26.28,42,47. We would have had to have traded out 26,28,47 to even match the deal they had gotten. that would have been crazy and we wouldnt have got the north/cj deal done for next years 2nd rounder

Ha, good luck with winning your case. I can’t be bothered trying anymore.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

I think I prefer Alleer as a key defender, he's already two years into his apprenticeship, the signs look good from a developmental perspective too, he's really using his leap to gain maximum advantage. I think you could make a definitive call in two years so he won't be a list clogger either.

If there's a compelling case for Bazzo's forward credentials then that may change my thinking.

I have huge doubts about Alleer game apart from his marking , Kicking reading of play (not ball) and the nuances of the game
he looks like a fantastic athlete and can certainly mark the ball but slows down play and struggles to dispose fluently .

Bazzo has played 2021 as a 17 year old 195cm 83kgs kid and done very well and has more growth both physically and game
He just looks a footballer .

Just need to see his combine results to be sure which i can seem to locate Leap, Agility, speed and tank

 

[bullus_hit]

I have huge doubts about Alleer game apart from his marking , Kicking reading of play (not ball) and the nuances of the game
he looks like a fantastic athlete and can certainly mark the ball but slows down play and struggles to dispose fluently .

Bazzo has played 2021 as a 17 year old 195cm 83kgs kid and done very well and has more growth both physically and game
He just looks a footballer .

Just need to see his combine results to be sure which i can seem to locate Leap, Agility, speed and tank

How would you assess his forward potential?

 

[turk-d-tiger]

How would you assess his forward potential?

Im thinking your asking about Bazzo ? If so
I have not seen alot of him and due to covid only the games that were televised but just from the vision i have seen it looks like he can read the ball and the play well and moves accordingly from the boot rather than the ball in the air, Im not sure of his patterns or his ability to structure up as a foward but his marking and ground ball look fine. But as i said i need his combine results as if he is not of decent pace then he could struggle.
leap,speed,agility is what i would make the call on with Bazzo

 

[Redford]

I think you are being harsh on our club here

Bulldogs traded out #17 for #23 , #44 , #45 which is 1719 points
at the time we didnt have #38 or #40 and our picks were 7.15.26.28,42,47. We would have had to have traded out 26,28,47 to even match the deal they had gotten. that would have been crazy and we wouldnt have got the north/cj deal done for next years 2nd rounder

Well, either I’m being harsh or you’re being a bit too accepting/throwing up excuses. Maybe the reality is somewhere in between.

I’ve already explained the 38 situation and you can’t tell me that between all those picks (7 of them) and 17 other clubs to do deals with you can’t engineer something. As TM correctly pointed out, in the end we ponied up about 500 points to get 27. The Dogs got something like 517 off the top of my head to give up 17. However or whatever, thats the market speaking to you. The market doesn’t care about excuses. It just looks at who paid what…for what.

Just to be clear Blair and the team have done an almighty job over the years. And I still grade this period as a pass. And I’m not saying for one minute that we haven’t got a great hand at this years Draft either. We do. But we got that hand by transacting ..by losing Chol and CJ and packaging up picks in transactions. And to that end that shouldn’t prevent debate about what was paid in order to get into that position and how those transactions stack up in a harsh market reality sense and an uber competitive industry. We’re only talking about the one transaction anyway. Not THAT big a deal I wouldn’t have thought.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

Well, either I’m being harsh or you’re being a bit too accepting/throwing up excuses. Maybe the reality is somewhere in between.

I’ve already explained the 38 situation and you can’t tell me that between all those picks (7 of them) and 17 other clubs to do deals with you can’t engineer something. As TM correctly pointed out, in the end we ponied up about 500 points to get 27. The Dogs got something like 517 off the top of my head to give up 17. However or whatever, thats the market speaking to you. The market doesn’t care about excuses. It just looks at who paid what…for what.

Just to be clear Blair and the team have done an almighty job over the years. And I still grade this period as a pass. And I’m not saying for one minute that we haven’t got a great hand at this years Draft either. We do. But we got that hand by transacting ..by losing Chol and CJ and packaging up picks in transactions. And to that end that shouldn’t prevent debate about what was paid in order to get into that position and how those transactions stack up in a harsh market reality sense and an uber competitive industry. We’re only talking about the one transaction anyway. Not THAT big deal I wouldn’t have thought.

I also wanted pick #17 but for the life of me without a result from the CJ/Tarrant deal the only way possible to get that deal done was
26,28,42 for 17

7, 15,17,38,47 would have been our hand compared to
7,15,26,27,28

I think the club did best it could with what we had , and over paid for #27 by the 2022 3rd rounder but with 3 good picks im not too fussed about that

 

[momentai]

Im thinking with 3 picks in a row we will now take 1 defender with 1 of these picks
Rhett Bazzo would be my thinking and the only team i see jumping in prior to #26 would be Norf with #20 but they may consider this a reach
But they do have alot of young mids now.

Alleer looks the better prospect but may not be there at 26.
He is courageous with a great leap and he is a beautiful mark.
His development is still at a stage where his kicking and ball handling can be expected to improve. He has confidence which is a key factor, and those skills will develop.

If we take Johnson or Erasmus at 7 and given that Rachele is likely to be gone by 15 (17), Alleer could make sense at 15, with some very good types like Taylor and maybe Butler and Sheldrick still available at our triple.

All chips in.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

Alleer looks the better prospect but may not be there at 26.
He is courageous with a great leap and he is a beautiful mark.
His development is still at a stage where his kicking and ball handling can be expected to improve. He has confidence which is a key factor, and those skills will develop.

If we take Johnson or Erasmus at 7 and given that Rachele is likely to be gone by 15 (17), Alleer could make sense at 15, with some very good types like Taylor and maybe Butler and Seldrick still available at our triple.

Some doubt has been raised above about whether
St Kilda will be able to avoid splitting pick 9 (11) and still take their two later Academy players.

Seemingly a long shot now but if that St Kilda advice is accurate I’d still be looking at how we might trade our future 1st to them for their pick 9, giving us a realistic shot at Rachele.

This is just one of those drafts!
Caddy staying or not, but with a fluke draw in the last and other results going our way, plus a great selection of available and high potential mids on offer… Six please.

All chips in.

You probably have seen more of Alleer than me but there is no way in the world i would be picking him up at #15

 

[Redford]

I also wanted pick #17 but for the life of me without a result from the CJ/Tarrant deal the only way possible to get that deal done was
26,28,42 for 17

7, 15,17,38,47 would have been our hand compared to
7,15,26,27,28

I think the club did best it could with what we had , and over paid for #27 by the 2022 3rd rounder but with 3 good picks im not too fussed about that

The Bulldogs had no reason to offload 17 before the CJ Tarrant deal was completed. Trading of picks goes right on up,until Draft night. They could have easily waited 2 days for us to confirm 38 as part of a package to them. But they didn’t. Why ? Because what we were packaging up couldn’t compete. That happens. But then the rest is history where we end up using a near equivalent value of picks for 27. So be it.

 

[bullus_hit]

You probably have seen more of Alleer than me but there is no way in the world i would be picking him up at #15

No, you wouldn't go that high, I think we're in the sweet spot as it stands.

 

[Tortured Tiger]

I also wanted pick #17 but for the life of me without a result from the CJ/Tarrant deal the only way possible to get that deal done was
26,28,42 for 17

7, 15,17,38,47 would have been our hand compared to
7,15,26,27,28

I think the club did best it could with what we had , and over paid for #27 by the 2022 3rd rounder but with 3 good picks im not too fussed about that

Yes spot on and even then pick 42 was required as part of the deal to get Norths second round future pick which is very handy.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

The Bulldogs had no reason to offload 17 before the CJ Tarrant deal was completed. Trading of picks goes right on up,until Draft night. They could have easily waited 2 days for us to confirm 38 as part of a package to them. But they didn’t. Why ? Because what we were packaging up couldn’t compete. That happens. But then the rest is history where we end up using a near equivalent value of picks for 27. So be it.

Why would they wait for us ?? They already had the bird in the hand rather than waiting for us to catch the one in the bush
Unless we wanted to offer them alot more than what they already got which would have just been stupid.

Fact is the doggies got a great deal and we would have had to give up 26,28,42 there and then and we were not prepared to give up a early 2nd and a 3rd to move up 9 spots

 

[Redford]

Why would they wait for us ?? They already had the bird in the hand rather than waiting for us to catch the ne in the bush
Unless we wanted to offer them alot more than what they already got which would have just been stupid.

Fact is the doggies got a great deal and we would have had to give up 26,28,42 there and then and we were not prepared to give up a early 2nd and a 3rd to move up 9 spots

That’s exactly what I’m saying. They could have, but they didn’t bother waiting for us because somebody else was going to offer more. You’re arguing against yourself now.

We’ve maybe said wait until we get the Tarrant CJ deal done and we’ll package up 38, 40 with something else. But obviously it wasn’t great enough to compete with the 499 point uplift they received out of the 4 team trade. Blair maybe didn’t want to pay that. Fair enough.

But forget about all that anyway because even if we didn’t do any of that, then using the estimate of finishing the dreaded 9th next year, the pure unadulterated outcome, or the irony is, because we were stacked with picks now and had limited buyers, we ended up having to give Cwood a 522 point uplift to get 27 from them.

See where I’m coming from ? We gave up more points to get 27 done than what its cost to get 17 done. At worst we could have taken 28, 38 and 40 for a 546 point uplift for the Dogs and got 17 in return ….but instead we forced ourselves into giving up 522 for 27. 546 and 17 v 522 and 27 ? Cmon.

You say it couldn’t be done, I say it could but it doesn’t matter what we think. All the market recognises is that the Dogs received 499 for 17 and Cwood got 522 from us on a 27. They’re the indisputable end outcome facts Turkish Delight.

Now let’s focus on having some fun using all of these picks.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

That’s exactly what I’m saying. They could have, but they didn’t bother waiting for us because somebody else was going to offer more. You’re arguing against yourself now.

We’ve maybe said wait until we get the Tarrant CJ deal done and we’ll package up 38, 40 with something else. But obviously it wasn’t great enough to compete with the 499 point uplift they received out of the 4 team trade. Blair maybe didn’t want to pay that. Fair enough.

But forget about all that anyway because even if we didn’t do any of that, then using the estimate of finishing the dreaded 9th next year, the pure unadulterated outcome, or the irony is, because we were stacked with picks now and had limited buyers, we ended up having to give Cwood a 522 point uplift to get 27 from them.

See where I’m coming from ? We gave up more points to get 27 done than what its cost to get 17 done. At worst we could have taken 28, 38 and 40 for a 546 point uplift for the Dogs and got 17 in return ….but instead we forced ourselves into giving up 522 for 27. 546 and 17 v 522 and 27 ? Cmon.

You say it couldn’t be done, I say it could but it doesn’t matter what we think. All the market recognises is that the Dogs received 499 for 17 and Cwood got 522 from us on a 27. They’re the indisputable end outcome facts Turkish Delight.

Now let’s have fun using all these picks.

Sorry mate
1. I am not arguing with myself at all , Im sure i made my point clear in the last post
2. You want Doggies to wait for us to get organised to offer them the same or less ?
3. If we are not giving them a bigger uplift then why should they and if we are then your argument is even worse as its an ever bigger mistake
4. You appear to be stuck on giving way points , The situation this year appears to be to move up you have to pay a premium and the reason for this could be that not many teams are rating players after 30 and are clammering to get inside.

fact remains that we did not have a good enough hand at the time to complete the deal and bulldogs rightfully got it done to move onto other things. The only other choice we had after this is to carry the picks into the draft and live trade or select players.

Maybe a good idea to give this a rest now as no point in arguing and best put our efforts to thinking about which players we now prefer with
7.15.26.27.28