The call we have to make | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

The call we have to make

WTF?

we are 2-4 and playing a horrible, stilted brand of football. hardwick mitigated the damage against melbourne - not since 2016 has there been such a feeling of inevitability within a game.

it's been a long time since we focused so much on opposition.

we beat the bulldogs who are in freefall. we beat the giants who are as soft as they come, particularly at the MCG and without Greene.

you have oscillated between being down on the list to rainbows and fairies all of a sudden.

why don't you just watch the game?

i'm fine with a dip if it gives us a look at some kids and we net a high draft pick. a quick bounce for 2024.

in your world it would be great scraping into 8th and getting blasted off the park by a Jeremy Cameron. you welcome mediocrity, dude. but that's ok. it takes all types to make a forum.

I haven't been down on the list since 2009. Maybe wavered in 2016. Recognised the need for a change to our best 22 with rule changes last year.

Injuries have really tested our depth this year. But the changes to our best 22 have been really positive. Things like Rioli back, Baker forward, Gibcus in, Dow in, Balta forward etc.

If you're talking about last year, this is what I said in June 2021:
I posted earlier in the year, that I had seen our worst three games since 2016 all in this year. Now I've seen our worst four.

People like to point to our infrequent big losses in premiership years to suggest that nothing has changed. But the fact is, minor aberrations aside, we have been incredibly consistent throughout our reign.

This year is different.

Every year for the previous 4, I've said to anyone who will listen, 'We are the best side in it. We'll be there at the end.'

This year, we are not.

We are suddenly a middle of the road team.

Champion club? Yes. Also a champion coach, with some champion, albeit aging, players.

But the current 22 we're fielding is an 8-10th side.

Bad losses. Non competitive quarters. Skill errors. Inability to take something away from the opposition. Structurally unbalanced. Lack of composure in tight losses. Slow on the ground, beaten in the air. But with moments of brilliance and leadership from our stars.

We could pinch a couple of finals wins if the stars align in September and we sneak into the eight. Inconsistency means we can't dominate a season, but we could blitz a month.

But it's time to think about the R word. Refresh or Rebuild, whatever you want to call it. There's not much we can do this year to do either, so we might as well go hell for leather and try and jag one. We could move on non contributors that are not part of the future (Aarts, Castagna etc) and incorporate some who are maybe less ready, but are (Stack, MRJ). It's still time to be picking best 22, because the cupboard will be bare until the offseason.

But if we win it this year, it will be theft.

It is the end of the our reign, the signs have been there all year. We can't complain about the intensity or longevity of it. Though we can hope for an encore.
Never advocated anything other than picking our best side. Everything I said would happen did. We dropped Aarts and Castagna, then went hard at the draft. You had a go at me then.

bookmarked that Coburg would like a rebuild in June 2021.

six months after winning our third flag and with finals still on the cards.

You were upset about me writing us off in June! And now you want to play for draft picks in April!

I find it odd that you do frequently have a go at people by saying things like 'Watch the games', or you lack insight, or whatever, when you're also so frequently wrong. It's okay to be wrong, we all are at times, but none of us are coming from a position of authority. None of us has any great insight.

We're all here with different opinions. And it's fair enough, when you want a rebuild a month and a half into the season, that we can have a different opinion from the guy who wanted a rebuild in 2017 before we won the flag, said Collingwood had gone past us in 2018 before our back to back premierships, and thought that refreshing last year was 'utterly ridiculous'.

I can see your point, most of the time, and respect it. You just tend to call any opinion other that yours nonsense, and any that aligns with yours astute. I think the last time you referred to anything I said as anything other than 'nonsense', 'ridiculous' or once even 'Ebola slime' (haha), was when you called one of my posts astute as I agreed that we should sack Hardwick in 2016. Possibly my worst ever take.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 3 users
You started your thread talking about 'integrity' and 'culture'.

Now you've devolved into strip away anyone over 30 and play for draft picks. As in, the opposite of those things.

In round 7?

Finals are a 'distant possibility'? We're one game out of the 8! With a good draw, and playing okay.

This is the random scattershot of a frustrated supporter, whose not used to losing a couple.

Then again, you also had us completely restructuring as 'Collingwood had gone past us' after 2018's prelim.
Playing OK?

No Coburg, we are not playing okay. We are not losing a couple. We are losing 4 out of 6. Adelaide, Carlton, StKilda, are mediocre at best and they did us easily. We are undisciplined and still trying to play chaos ball while the others kick and stand with precision.

We could turn at 2 and 9 on current form. Dimma needs to change it up. Properly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I haven't been down on the list since 2009. Maybe wavered in 2016. Recognised the need for a change to our best 22 with rule changes last year.

Injuries have really tested our depth this year. But the changes to our best 22 have been really positive. Things like Rioli back, Baker forward, Gibcus in, Dow in, Balta forward etc.

If you're talking about last year, this is what I said in June 2021:

Never advocated anything other than picking our best side. Everything I said would happen did. We dropped Aarts and Castagna, then went hard at the draft. You had a go at me then.



You were upset about me writing us off in June! And now you want to play for draft picks in April!

I find it odd that you do frequently have a go at people by saying things like 'Watch the games', or you lack insight, or whatever, when you're also so frequently wrong. It's okay to be wrong, we all are at times, but none of us are coming from a position of authority. None of us has any great insight.

We're all here with different opinions. And it's fair enough, when you want a rebuild a month and a half into the season, that we can have a different opinion from the guy who wanted a rebuild in 2017 before we won the flag, said Collingwood had gone past us in 2018 before our back to back premierships, and thought that refreshing last year was 'utterly ridiculous'.

I can see your point, most of the time, and respect it. You just tend to call any opinion other that yours nonsense, and any that aligns with yours astute. I think the last time you referred to anything I said as anything other than 'nonsense', 'ridiculous' or once even 'Ebola slime' (haha), was when you called one of my posts astute as I agreed that we should sack Hardwick in 2016. Possibly my worst ever take.

Footy forums are places of passion, where uninformed outsiders debate ideas in a robust manner. This is the part I love.

This is also why I hardly ever trawl through others' old posts - I understand comments made in the moment, without recourse to information inside the club, as part of the hurly burly of fan forums.

I suspect you and I would get on much better if you stopped trying to find 'gotcha' posts to prove your point. It's desperate, no? There is not a single poster here who hasn't made wildly incorrect calls as outsiders. It's all part of the fun of speculative debate. 2016 was a loooong time ago. We are five campaigns on, and each is different.

But if it floats your boat, by all means carry on. I regret nothing I've written on these boards. If I worked for the club or as an 'expert' in the industry, I most certainly would. As it is I jump in here to stir things up a tiny bit.
 
Playing OK?

No Coburg, we are not playing okay. We are not losing a couple. We are losing 4 out of 6. Adelaide, Carlton, StKilda, are mediocre at best and they did us easily. We are undisciplined and still trying to play chaos ball while the others kick and stand with precision.

We could turn at 2 and 9 on current form. Dimma needs to change it up. Properly.

The Melbourne game was every bit as bad as the Adelaide game, which was diabolical.

We are not travelling well.
 
Playing OK?

No Coburg, we are not playing okay. We are not losing a couple. We are losing 4 out of 6. Adelaide, Carlton, StKilda, are mediocre at best and they did us easily. We are undisciplined and still trying to play chaos ball while the others kick and stand with precision.

We could turn at 2 and 9 on current form. Dimma needs to change it up. Properly.

We got beaten by decent, but not great, sides playing well. Which happens when you're a decent but not great side.

We really haven't got our best 22 together, and we've been trialling a completely different structure to previous years. I've been impressed by the fact that we've figured out a way to be competitive in games where last year we weren't. It's clear at the ground that we've made it much more difficult for the opposition to walk into goal scoring opportunities, whereas last year it was a theme.

We've done it without two of our most important midfielders (Dusty and Lambert) and never having our backline playing together (which is where we're thinnest).

We're not Richmond of 2019. We probably won't be for a while.

The contention of this thread is to sacrifice the premiership champs, play kids who aren't ready, get draft picks and try and rocket up the ladder next year.

Which is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Were as good a chance as any (other than Melbourne) this year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Crossroads with Jack.

We are playing well as a team and have slipped into fourth gear.

Good wins over the past two weeks with more challenges to come.

And we can still improve. We can still get better and will need to if we are to make finals and do some damage from there.

So many times today a forward entry went near Jack and he may as well have been a witches hat.

The endeavour is there, the heart is willing, but he has just about lost whatever speed that had left.

A near complete liability with ball on deck. We just can’t afford to turn it over with such regularity against the best teams.

I question Jack’s position in the team, but I know the answer is tricky.

Ideally we need someone to affect the air ball, bring it down, fight for the spill.

Gibcus.

Balta is back in D50, along with Grimes, Broad, Vlastuin. With Nank and Soldo drifting back to support. D Rioli and Baker scooping up and linking well.

Gibcus, with his leap and agility, would be a nice perfect foil for an in-form Lynch whilst helping us retain forward territory alongside M Rioli, Castagna etc.

Makes sense to me but I can understand if it’s too early for some on here to see it.
 
He kicked 2, how many did he cost us.

Understand the sentiment is there with 3 or 4 of our players from now onwards but maybe it is a bit soon.

Not being at the ground I don’t know what role hi played, who was on him etc.
 
It may be too early, you don’t just drop a 300 gamer on a whim, but it’s a move that could catapult us into serious contention.

To be clear, Jack still provides invaluable leadership and guidance on the field.
 
Crossroads with Jack.

We are playing well as a team and have slipped into fourth gear.

Good wins over the past two weeks with more challenges to come.

And we can still improve. We can still get better and will need to if we are to make finals and do some damage from there.

So many times today a forward entry went near Jack and he may as well have been a witches hat.

The endeavour is there, the heart is willing, but he has just about lost whatever speed that had left.

A near complete liability with ball on deck. We just can’t afford to turn it over with such regularity against the best teams.

I question Jack’s position in the team, but I know the answer is tricky.

Ideally we need someone to affect the air ball, bring it down, fight for the spill.

Gibcus.

Balta is back in D50, along with Grimes, Broad, Vlastuin. With Nank and Soldo drifting back to support. D Rioli and Baker scooping up and linking well.

Gibcus, with his leap and agility, would be a nice perfect foil for an in-form Lynch whilst helping us retain forward territory alongside M Rioli, Castagna etc.

Makes sense to me but I can understand if it’s too early for some on here to see it.

Yeah not happening, at least not any time soon. Jack's not what he was, but he's nowhere near as bad as you seem to think.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
Yeah not happening, at least not any time soon. Jack's not what he was, but he's nowhere near as bad as you seem to think.

I reckon Gibcus would offer just as many goals as Jack at the moment, perhaps slightly less, but more pressure acts and assists. Structurally, the move is a net upgrade.

But you factor in Jack's leadership, which is pretty damn significant. Tough one and just posing the question.
 
  • Dislike
Reactions: 1 user
I reckon Gibcus would offer just as many goals as Jack at the moment, perhaps slightly less, but more pressure acts and assists. Structurally, the move is a net upgrade.

But you factor in Jack's leadership, which is pretty damn significant. Tough one and just posing the question.

I can't rule out either Balta or Gibcus moving forward in the future, that would be foolish. But you're conveniently overlooking Riewoldt's biggest strength. He's possibly the smartest footballer of the last 20 years. That's different from leadership. He is as good a decoy lead and pattern runner as there is, even in his twilight years. Gibcus and Balta more athletic? Absolutely. Gibcus and Balta possessing a shred of Riewoldt's brainpower? Not yet, and likely won't approach it for some time. Let the cobblers cobble for the moment Cartagena.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
Bulldust. *smile* and horseshit. Still earning his pay full stop. Some great contested work today. Talk to me when someone is bashing the door down and he stops kicking 2 goals a game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Bulldust. *smile* and horseshit. Still earning his pay full stop. Some great contested work today. Talk to me when someone is bashing the door down and he stops kicking 2 goals a game.
Exactly.

I was at the ground. Jack is earning his pay check.

Not sure why you would rather take our most promising backman out of his position, to replace a triple Coleman Medallist.

A backman who has never ever trained forward.

While we're winning.

And kicking over 100 points a game.

Bewildering.

Good news is Carts had Lynch dropped two weeks ago.

So Jack should kick 13 in the next two weeks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
Crossroads with Jack.

We are playing well as a team and have slipped into fourth gear.

Good wins over the past two weeks with more challenges to come.

And we can still improve. We can still get better and will need to if we are to make finals and do some damage from there.

So many times today a forward entry went near Jack and he may as well have been a witches hat.

The endeavour is there, the heart is willing, but he has just about lost whatever speed that had left.

A near complete liability with ball on deck. We just can’t afford to turn it over with such regularity against the best teams.

I question Jack’s position in the team, but I know the answer is tricky.

Ideally we need someone to affect the air ball, bring it down, fight for the spill.

Gibcus.

Balta is back in D50, along with Grimes, Broad, Vlastuin. With Nank and Soldo drifting back to support. D Rioli and Baker scooping up and linking well.

Gibcus, with his leap and agility, would be a nice perfect foil for an in-form Lynch whilst helping us retain forward territory alongside M Rioli, Castagna etc.

Makes sense to me but I can understand if it’s too early for some on here to see it.
Sorry Carter but can’t agree.
This Gibcus to the forward line sounds like the failed Balta forward experiment.

We have potentially 2 AA full backs and CHB playing together. Build our next dynasty around them.

Lets draft our next key forward and build that around him whilst we still have Lynch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
By the way, the Riewoldt pass to Martin sealed out win.

You could feel it at the ground. The Collingwood players dropped about three inches of height.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I can't rule out either Balta or Gibcus moving forward in the future, that would be foolish. But you're conveniently overlooking Riewoldt's biggest strength. He's possibly the smartest footballer of the last 20 years. That's different from leadership. He is as good a decoy lead and pattern runner as there is, even in his twilight years. Gibcus and Balta more athletic? Absolutely. Gibcus and Balta possessing a shred of Riewoldt's brainpower? Not yet, and likely won't approach it for some time. Let the cobblers cobble for the moment Cartagena.

he's the smartest player I've seen.

but can his body still do what that brain is telling it to do? on today's evidence, maybe not.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: 1 user
he's the smartest player I've seen.

but can his body still do what that brain is telling it to do? on today's evidence, maybe not.

His lead for the second goal off Pickett's kick from the left on 50 is evidence of this. Like I said, no one is saying he's as good as he was. But he's still very clearly a + each week.
 
Not sure why you would rather take our most promising backman out of his position, to replace a triple Coleman Medallist.

pointless arguments -

gibcus isn't yet our most promising back, Noah is atm. gibcus could become our most promising forward, where there are none.

as for the whole 'coleman medallist' thing, this just reflects your lack of conviction.

players get old, happens. jack could have ten colemans and the situation wouldn't have changed.

and yes, I was also at the ground lol probably not near where you were serving pies and chips but there in any case
 
Last edited:
Good news is Carts had Lynch dropped two weeks ago.

So Jack should kick 13 in the next two weeks.

he's the smartest player I've seen.

but can his body still do what that brain is telling it to do? on today's evidence, maybe not.
*smile*. Everybody knows he's old and on the wane and its probably his last year. He is still doing what he has to do. Now second banana to Lynch and doing it with aplomb. Some truly great efforts today, won and squared balls he had no right to. Kicked 2 goals and we won. If he was playing poorly AND he had a young CHF killing it in the seconds you'd have a point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user