10,000,000 Cousins threads [Merged]

[MD Jazz]

He "wants" to free from his addiction.

He is an addict.

Understanding the nature of addiction, genetic programming and the way brain's Synapses form Neural Pathways can help when understanding why people can not easily change behaviours.

You an addict?

Not saying it’s easy but plenty do arrest addictions. Ultimately it’s all about action. Plenty of addicts in worse positions than Ben arrest their condition on a daily basis. Ben’s likely got too many people trying to help him. Self-indulgence will likely kill him.

 

[josey]

You an addict?

Not saying it’s easy but plenty do arrest addictions. Ultimately it’s all about action. Plenty of addicts in worse positions than Ben arrest their condition on a daily basis. Ben’s likely got too many people trying to help him. Self-indulgence will likely kill him.

I suspect your commenting on something you have no idea about, and get your pious opinion on this from the Herald-Sun.

Addiction isn't a self indulgence, it's a sad and deadly disease.

 

[ninjahaha]

You an addict?

Yeah, if I dont read Pre three times a day I think I will die.

Not saying it’s easy but plenty do arrest addictions.

You are correct, plenty can stop using. Many also will use till the day they die. Many can be in a on/off cycle that can continue for a life time.

Plenty of addicts in worse positions than Ben arrest their condition on a daily basis. Ben’s likely got too many people trying to help him. Self-indulgence will likely kill him.

Scientific research shows that addiction is not a choice.


Every addict face's their own battle. So many variable's involved. Judging some individuals success against another's failures is to simplistic. You assume too much and are applying those assumptions as reality to this situation.



If you do some research into the nature of addiction. You will find that it is a complex web of issues.

 

[MD Jazz]

Yeah, if I dont read Pre three times a day I think I will die.
You are correct, plenty can stop using. Many also will use till the day they die. Many can be in a on/off cycle that can continue for a life time.
Scientific research shows that addiction is not a choice.
Every addict face's their own battle. So many variable's involved. Judging some individuals success against another's failures is to simplistic. You assume too much and are applying those assumptions as reality to this
If you do some research into the nature of addiction. You will find that it is a complex web of issues.

I reckon I know a little about it.

Addiction is a disease but arresting it is about choices and actions. The problem is any addict that goes through a professional program eg dayhab learns they have a disease. They learn to forgive themselves. But they also learn that they do have to take certain actions to arrest that disease. Generally if you fail to take those actions you leave yourself vulnerable to relapses.

Ben fails to take the right actions. In my experience self-indulgence (in different forms) is a key reason.

 

[123cups]

Addiction is a disease but arresting it is about choices and actions.

Why/how did you "choose" the next thought that you're about to think?

 

[MD Jazz]

Why/how did you "choose" the next thought that you're about to think?

Not sure what you mean? You saying addicts are a lost cause? Poor Ben, he has no control over his actions?

Addicts have a choice.

 

[ninjahaha]

Addicts have a choice.

M.D, looks like the science and consensus has swung since I was at Uni.

All the common beliefs Re the genetic, hereditary and neurological nature of addiction have been outweighed by the long term data which shows that only 15% of those clinically addicted to alcohol persist into their 60's. Alcohol seems to have the highest persistence of all drugs. However I couldn't find any info on ice. Most likely because no ice addicts have turned 60 yet?



I do wonder if ice will be more persistent.

I also question how much weight is given to mortality rates which is much higher in addicts. Especially suicide. Many addicts dont live past 40.

 

[MD Jazz]

M.D, looks like the science and consensus has swung since I was at Uni.
All the common beliefs Re the genetic, hereditary and neurological nature of addiction have been outweighed by the long term data which shows that only 15% of those clinically addicted to alcohol persist into their 60's. Alcohol seems to have the highest persistence of all drugs. However I couldn't find any info on ice. Most likely because no ice addicts have turned 60 yet?
I do wonder if ice will be more persistent.
I also question how much weight is given to mortality rates which is much higher in addicts. Especially suicide. Many addicts dont live past 40.

U make it sound like a death sentence. You’ve just got to work on it. Every day. I know guys who spent 20 years addicted to various vices who have been clean for 3,6,8,15,20 years. You know why? Because they work on it. They work on their character. They work on their defects. They don’t put themselves in vulnerable positions. It’s a choice. You’ve got to take responsibility for your actions.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Gets a good click.

 

[ninjahaha]

U make it sound like a death sentence.

For some it is.

 

[ninjahaha]

U make it sound like a death sentence. You’ve just got to work on it. Every day. I know guys who spent 20 years addicted to various vices who have been clean for 3,6,8,15,20 years. You know why? Because they work on it. They work on their character. They work on their defects. They don’t put themselves in vulnerable positions. It’s a choice. You’ve got to take responsibility for your actions.

I also know people who have been clean from more than a decade.

I also know some addicts that are dead.

 

[ninjahaha]

*smile* its getting dark.

But my point is that its not the same for everyone.

 

[easy_tiger]

everyones addicted to somethin'

and its got nothing to do with defectiveness, or strength.

The victories in life can be up to 37 years apart.

Thats a twice a lifetime opportunity for a naturally occurring ecstasy and peace.

and then you spend eternity as compost.

There are those of us who admit we are addicts, and liars.

some of us get away with it, some dont.

nobody gets out alive.

the chasm between the haves and the have nots converges very decisively and dramatically

get well cuz.

 

[MD Jazz]

For some it is.

For those that choose it. Thats also a choice.

Cuz has had more opportunity and support than most addicts, but he has no anonymity which must make it harder for him to recover.

 

[123cups]

Not sure what you mean? You saying addicts are a lost cause? Poor Ben, he has no control over his actions?

Addicts have a choice.

Picture your favourite food.

Visualise it in front of you. The smell, the taste.

Why did you choose to think of that food and not one of your other favourites?

You had a choice to pick an alternative, but your brain couldn’t possibly have allowed you to make such an alternative choice evidently because at that moment in time, it didn’t.

Addiction is this same choice dilemma dialled up 100 due to physical hardware changes in the brain.

Or from a different line of reasoning, the “choice” involved with addiction is no more controllable than your choice to feel anxiety when you see a snake. Or when you choose to feel hungry. Or choose to yell at umpires. Everything is a choice under your definition, and addiction is at the most extreme end of the choice spectrum.

 

[Mr Brightside]

No matter what the addiction, unless you live it I don’t believe you can truly understand it . At the end of the day there is only one person who can limit, manage, defeat the demon that is addiction and that is yourself . One thing most addicts can’t see is the damage they do to those around them, most wouldn’t want to cause the troubles they do, that’s what a true addiction does it makes people blind off those around.

I’ve been harsh on addicts of certain things over the years, however as much as I despise junkies I doubt many set out to be where they Are now when they first “experimented “

Bottom line for me with beating addiction is you will face that moment every single day where you MUST tell yourself No and walk away, just like golf ,for example you can only play one shot at a time, you don’t have to say NO a thousand times in one moment, easier said then done but you just have to Say No each time, weather that be havin a beer, having a greasy pizza, having a can of coke, doin a line, having a 5er each way on a nag at quirindi, or injecting to take the reality away.

Addiction can be a brilliant thing and it can be a tragedy, a whole hearted good luck to those Punt Road Enders fighting the good fight.

 

[MD Jazz]

Addiction is this same choice dilemma dialled up 100 due to physical hardware changes in the brain.

Or from a different line of reasoning, the “choice” involved with addiction is no more controllable than your choice to feel anxiety when you see a snake. Or when you choose to feel hungry. Or choose to yell at umpires. Everything is a choice under your definition, and addiction is at the most extreme end of the choice spectrum.

Are you an addict?

You make it sound like there are no alternatives for addicts. That is wrong.

Talk to recovering addicts like Mìck hall and crossisca - they have made choices and taken actions to turn their lives around. Addiction is an insidious disease, it might be harder for addicts to change behaviour but everyone has the opportunity. Cousins has had more opportunity than most addicts.

 

[tigerman]

One thing most addicts can’t see is the damage they do to those around them, most wouldn’t want to cause the troubles they do, that’s what a true addiction does it makes people blind off those around.

That's the part i don't understand with addiction. An addict must see the hurt, the tears and worry they cause family and friends.
Addiction must be a terrible thing, because addicts continue to use knowing the hurt, and betrayal their loved ones are going to feel.

 

[Mr Brightside]

That's the part i don't understand with addiction. An addict must see the hurt, the tears and worry they cause family and friends.
Addiction must be a terrible thing, because addicts continue to use knowing the hurt, and betrayal their loved ones are going to feel.

I suppose it’s just another form of selfishness tigerman.

 

[tigerman]

I suppose it’s just another form of selfishness tigerman.

It might be uneducated on my part Mr B, but i think in a fair amount of cases addicts being selfish is part of the problem.