AFLW season

[TigerPort]

I don't quite get this argument. Aussie Rules is very healthy. It is driven by the AFLs mens competition, with no disrespect, the women's games are not a spectacle anywhere near the class of the mens. Womens cricket is well entrenched but cricket is arguably at its lowest point ever. I am not sure on this basis how you can argue artificially building up the womens game secures the future health of the AFL. Womens footy is not new. VFLW competition commenced in 1981 and has kept growing. This is great news. There is now a masters competition for women. The progression to an AFL competition is also great but it seems to me the AFL is pushing too hard with too many teams for an elite competition. Realistically the skill level is quite poor despite there being a competition since 1981 and this doesn't bode well for sustaining public interest. 14 teams next year is way too many and will further reduce the skill level of the games next year.

Aussie Rules is healthy at the moment but projecting that out to 30/40 years the question of not doing anything now (in either new men's teams in the growth areas, or women's teams) would see the "product" reduce.

Professional sport for women is exploding right now. More females will now look at a sporting career and in greater numbers. This is compounded by high population growth predictions along the eastern seaboard. Effectively the population in the non traditional states of NSW and Queensland will double and will hold half the entire Australian population. League and Union are already setting up womens comps at the elite level and yes there have been womens comps for many years. Doing nothing will hand the "market" in these states to those other sports.

Yes the VFL womens comp is in existence but is only in Victoria.

But this is a different world. If the AFL does nothing it will lose ground to other sports and options and the game as a whole will shrink. Advertisers will be harder to find as the AFL is concentrated in Victoria and only caters to males at elite levels in other states.

just trying to point out there is a bigger picture here than just the current standard of play and the AFL is playing a long term strategy similar to that of GWS and the Suns

 

[tigerlove]

Aussie Rules is healthy at the moment but projecting that out to 30/40 years the question of not doing anything now (in either new men's teams in the growth areas, or women's teams) would see the "product" reduce.

Professional sport for women is exploding right now. More females will now look at a sporting career and in greater numbers. This is compounded by high population growth predictions along the eastern seaboard. Effectively the population in the non traditional states of NSW and Queensland will double and will hold half the entire Australian population. League and Union are already setting up womens comps at the elite level and yes there have been womens comps for many years. Doing nothing will hand the "market" in these states to those other sports.

Yes the VFL womens comp is in existence but is only in Victoria.

But this is a different world. If the AFL does nothing it will lose ground to other sports and options and the game as a whole will shrink. Advertisers will be harder to find as the AFL is concentrated in Victoria and only caters to males at elite levels in other states.

just trying to point out there is a bigger picture here than just the current standard of play and the AFL is playing a long term strategy similar to that of GWS and the Suns

Sorry I disagree. There is more awareness for professional womens sports but it is hardly exploding. 'Professional' can only happen if there is money to support it. Money to support it comes from supporters. Supporters get sponsors interested. Sports gain support when hordes of people want to watch the best in the world play, the highest skilled, the hardest played and pay good dollars for it. That's mens football. That's the reality. Women will never attract the money required to become truly professional. Take netball for example, female-only sport, if you want to watch elite netball it is women yet it was just announced super netball women will now get a big payrise, a whopping $30,000 in 2019. Ok how about NBL basketball. Professional womens teams been around for a very long time. Well they average US$71K, certainly not unimpressive but miles away from the MINIMUM mens salary of US$580K.

The future of Aussie Rules health has nothing to do with the progress of women's footy. I am all for a professional womens league and hope there is enough money to support it. The reality is the mens will always subsidise the women. It happens in tennis, probably the only sport where women earn the same as men (for doing less mind you - 3 set matches instead of 5). The fact is there is indeed a lot of focus on women footy atm and the AFL is willing to spend money on it and this can only be a good thing at the grassroots level, there I totally agree. There's always been a lot of women watch AFL footy though regardless of the state of womens footy and I know many who simply aren;t interested in watching womens footy at all.

 

[seven]

They should merge AFLX and AFLW.
That way we only have to put up with one pile of *smile*.

 

[zippadeee]

The girls game currently is like watching a game at Morrabbin in the middle of winter.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Just a vague random thought, but perhaps the clubs and the AFL erred by promoting far to many celebrity stars from other sports, who've not played in years into the teams. Trying to engage fans with hype rather than starting with players who've actually been playing the women's comp for a few years.
Reckon there's a bunch of star basket ball, netball, hockey, volley ball etc etc players running around like headless chooks purely for the promotional hype factor.

 

[Baloo]

Give me AFLW over AFLX any day

 

[yandb]

It's not apples and apples though.

How would the under 18 girls go?

I am refering to the AFLW teams not an u 18 girls comp.

The local u18 boys team would easily beat any any of the senior womens team currently playing in the AFLW.

The u18 boys are not paid to play the AFLW are paid to play and yet the standard of football is far lower.

If the AFL push the womens comp too far there will be a massive pushback from the ordinary supporters and this will set the womens comp years.

Let it develop naturally and it will create its own niche in the market with its own loyal supporters.

 

[tommystigers]

Give me AFLW over AFLX any day

Ditto. In comparison the former has relevance, the latter, insignificance.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

There's always been a lot of women watch AFL footy though regardless of the state of womens footy and I know many who simply aren;t interested in watching womens footy at all.

My own wife is a case in point.

She's a keen AFL supporter (Big Swannies supporter). Has zero interest in women's footy. I at least turn it over from other shows to watch a few minutes here and there of AFLW matches, while channel surfing or during ad breaks. Her response to me, "What have you got that crap on for?"

Not like she hasn't played female sport herself either. As a teenager she represented her state in national junior basketball tournaments (as a young adult she coached junior boys and junior girls teams) and still watches a fair bit of basketball, both women's and men's.

 

[Dont Argue]

My own wife is a case in point.

She's a keen AFL supporter (Big Swannies supporter). Has zero interest in women's footy. I at least turn it over from other shows to watch a few minutes here and there of AFLW matches, while channel surfing or during ad breaks. Her response to me, "What have you got that crap on for?"

Not like she hasn't played female sport herself either. As a teenager she represented her state in national junior basketball tournaments (as a young adult she coached junior boys and junior girls teams) and still watches a fair bit of basketball, both women's and men's.

Your wife seems very confused.
She's a Swans supporter?

 

[kyuss]

I hate rugby, any form of the game, but it doesn't ever bother me. I don't watch it, I don't listen to it, I don't think about it, and I certainly don't bother to go on to an online forum and complain about it.

 

[jokershoppe]

improving every year,field kicking and fitness much better in 2019, first year mens game has very low scoring also, some games won with winning side kicking only two goals,is evolving especially with the pathways allowing better ready juniors .

 

[yandb]

I hate rugby, any form of the game, but it doesn't ever bother me. I don't watch it, I don't listen to it, I don't think about it, and I certainly don't bother to go on to an online forum and complain about it.

But if the football channel you have paid for on fox started showing rugby all day you may be a bit peeved.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Another ACL confirmed today. Bad luck or something deeper?

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Another ACL confirmed today. Bad luck or something deeper?

There is evidence gathering steam that the female body is more susceptible to serious ACL injuries than males. Some of the theories of why being, different alignment of female lower limbs putting different forces and stresses on the area. As well as ligaments and tendons being smaller and hence slightly less robust.

This isn't only in Australian rules, but also Rugby, soccer and basketball.

It's interesting that netball has a horrendously high incidence of ACL injuries. Obviously a big part of that is the unique nature of the sport with tight twisting and turning and sudden stopping at speed. But is there something in it, that it's a sport predominantly played by female athletes?

 

[tigerlove]

There is evidence gathering steam that the female body is more susceptible to serious ACL injuries than males. Some of the theories of why being, different alignment of female lower limbs putting different forces and stresses on the area. As well as ligaments and tendons being smaller and hence slightly less robust.

The evidence is irrefutable:

From an AFL report:

(AFLW) Torn ACL injuries increased from 4.31 per 1000 hours in 2017 to 6.47 this year. By comparison, there were only 0.7 ACL injuries per 1000 player hours in the AFL (men) in 2017.

The incidence of concussion causing missed matches was 3.2 injuries per 1000 player hours in both AFLW seasons, compared to 1.5 injuries per 1000 hours in the 2017 AFL season.

 

[Tigers of Old]

The evidence is irrefutable:

From an AFL report:

(AFLW) Torn ACL injuries increased from 4.31 per 1000 hours in 2017 to 6.47 this year. By comparison, there were only 0.7 ACL injuries per 1000 player hours in the AFL (men) in 2017.

The incidence of concussion causing missed matches was 3.2 injuries per 1000 player hours in both AFLW seasons, compared to 1.5 injuries per 1000 hours in the 2017 AFL season.

Wow that is a massive disparity. Especially re knees. Wonder if parents are being given those statistics when their girls sign up to play.

 

[tigerlove]

Wow that is a massive disparity. Especially re knees. Wonder if parents are being given those statistics when their girls sign up to play.

Report also says this:

Shoulder injuries (3.23 in both seasons per 1000 player hours) and elbow/wrist and hand injuries (up from zero in 2017 to 3.23 in 2018 per 1000 hours) also featured in the data.

So looking at all that data, last year 3.23 shoulder injuries + 3.2 elbow/wrist injuries + 6.47 ACLs + 3.2 concussions = 16.1 injuries per 1000 hours of footy played - doesn't take into account other types of injuries. 36 players on a field at any one time, I think they play 15 minute quarters, that's 1 hour x 36 players = 36 hours. Every 1 game of footy (36 hours) of footy there's well over half a serious injury per game (36 / 1000 * 16.1), so in effect more than one serious injury every two games. An ACL injury occurred on average, in 2018, once every 4 games of footy. Unbelievably high.

I put it partly down to women not knowing how to protect themselves in the contest and having poor AFL peripheral vision atm. Remember many have come from other sports to play. The other part is anatomy. Things can be done to improve both areas to make players less susceptible to injury but right now it really is way to high. If that level of injury was experienced at AFL level there'd be a royal commission.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Report also says this:

Shoulder injuries (3.23 in both seasons per 1000 player hours) and elbow/wrist and hand injuries (up from zero in 2017 to 3.23 in 2018 per 1000 hours) also featured in the data.

So looking at all that data, last year 3.23 shoulder injuries + 3.2 elbow/wrist injuries + 6.47 ACLs + 3.2 concussions = 16.1 injuries per 1000 hours of footy played - doesn't take into account other types of injuries. 36 players on a field at any one time, I think they play 15 minute quarters, that's 1 hour x 36 players = 36 hours. Every 1 game of footy (36 hours) of footy there's well over half a serious injury per game (36 / 1000 * 16.1), so in effect more than one serious injury every two games. An ACL injury occurred on average, in 2018, once every 4 games of footy. Unbelievably high.

I put it partly down to women not knowing how to protect themselves in the contest and having poor AFL peripheral vision atm. Remember many have come from other sports to play. The other part is anatomy. Things can be done to improve both areas to make players less susceptible to injury but right now it really is way to high. If that level of injury was experienced at AFL level there'd be a royal commission.

I think that is a well balanced post that i agree with. However the point about anatomy being different. Don't expect it to be widely acknowledged.

Since the dawn of time, humans have acknowledged basic observable reality that female and male bodies are different with different shaped/sized anatomy (not just the reproductive bits). During enlightened times this was extended to be scientifically understood. I don't mean this in terms of good, bad or otherwise. More, 'it just is.'

However we are now in an era where politics and feelings trump observable reality. Kind of anti-enlightenment where all common sesnse is abandoned. So to acknowledge such reality is an i convenient truth and must be shut down with howls of misogyny.

 

[taztiger4]

The evidence is irrefutable:

From an AFL report:

(AFLW) Torn ACL injuries increased from 4.31 per 1000 hours in 2017 to 6.47 this year. By comparison, there were only 0.7 ACL injuries per 1000 player hours in the AFL (men) in 2017.

The incidence of concussion causing missed matches was 3.2 injuries per 1000 player hours in both AFLW seasons, compared to 1.5 injuries per 1000 hours in the 2017 AFL season.

Interesting, are these stats available for VFL & VFLW ??