Rayzorwire said:
So many words just to build another half dozen strawman arguments. :
You should be a Fox News presenter Liverpool...adept at padding, misdirection, dodging , spinning...and most prized of all, unshakeable conviction that you are right,
despite your positions being shown as ridiculous and utterly separated from reality.
Buggered if I know why anyone bothers to debate with you.
Separated from reality, eh?
What part of that post I answered you, are you questioning?
You don't believe the
fact, that Nancy de Vries was able to overcome the 'stolen generation' tag to become one of the first Aboriginal nursing graduates from the University of West Sydney?
Or maybe you didn't believe the
facts about Nancy Barnes, taken from her parents at 3 years of age, 8 foster homes later, became the first Aboriginal Kindergarten Union Graduate and became Director of the first Alice Springs kindergarten to admit Aboriginal children.
Or maybe you don't like the
fact that Nancy wrote a book called "Munyi's Daughter", with the line, "
We are referred to as the 'Stolen Generation' I consider myself saved.".
I'm sure you could post some names of Aborigines who were abused while in foster care after being removed from their parents, and I have never denied that. It is something, that regretfully, does occur to some children, of any race or religion, who have been fostered or adopted out.
This cannot be used as an excuse for all Aborigines to fail, however, or blame their failings on 180+ years of white people being here.
As I have proven, not all Aborigines are failures after being removed from their parents, many are grateful that they were given a chance...a chance they may not have received, if they had stayed with their own biological parents, for whatever reason.
These Aborigines have shown their race, and people like yourself, that blaming "180+ years of shocking treatment" does not justify todays Aborigines, from not being able to take hold of some of the opportunities they have available today.
You can call it padding, misdirection, spin-doctoring, or whatever you like.....but simply, if Aborigines of the so-called "stolen generation", in the 1950's, can make something of themselves, there is no excuse for todays Aborigines to not be able make something of themselves as well.....if they so desire.
I'm sick of the past being used as an excuse for current failings...its time individuals took responsibility for their actions.
And yes, you are buggered to debate me on this, because you've been given some
facts you don't like....
facts that you don't agree with....but at the end of the day, they are
FACTS!
Legends of 1980 said:
Tigersnake, at the risk of facing your wrath, I point you to your quote in your last post about discriminating based on race. A common theme to many of Liverpool's posts is that he expects everyone to be treated the same. Isn't what you and some other posters advocating 'racism' in that the Indigenous should be different because of their race? I'm not calling you or the others racist but that quote also covers what you guys mention.
:clap...thanks Legends...its what I have been advocating on this thread.
What they don't realise, or don't want to realise, is that by treating Aborigines differently compared to other Australians, is supporting a kind of "reverse racism" if you can call it that.
tigersnake said:
I just get annoyed with liverpool and Chelsea jumping in every time this topic comes up to lay the boots in to the poor old blackfellas.
:nopity
Tigersnake,
The smokescreen is that people like yourself, Rayzorwire, eightace, antman, refuse to accept the
FACTS, that the 'stolen generation' is in name only.
No-one, has denied that Aboriginal (and white children, let me add) were removed from their parents, during the 20th century.
I 100% agree.
However, its people like yourself who refuse to acknowledge, that the Cubillo/Gunner case found that these two were not 'stolen', and along the way found that there was at the relevant time no policy of forcible removal of children in the Northern Territory.
This is
fact.
In New South Wales, a similar case was thrown out by the Court of Appeal in late September, the same year.
That is also
fact.
Therefore, the 'stolen generation' is a fancy name, for Aboriginal children who were fostered out to other homes, maybe because they went through this, which unfortunately, Aboriginal children of today are having to go through, because of the past stolen generation claims:
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2006/s1639133.htm
Again....(unfortunately)
fact!
Yourself, Rayzorwire, eightace, and antman, refuse to accept
FACTS that there have been Aborigines who have been successful, even ones who have been in the 'stolen generation'.
How come, we never hear some of these stories, from you?
Because these
facts don't support your views, that Aborigines of today who fail can always turn around and blame 180+ years of shocking treatment by white people.
Finally, I've read posts from all you going on about Howard saying 'sorry'.
How is this going to change todays Aborigines, unless there is going to be a monetary gain from it?
As I posted before, Howard did say this in 1999:
In reflection and in generosity and with good heart, express a regret, and a sincere regret, for what has occurred in the past.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s47033.htm
Again....he said it....
fact.
He hasn't actually used the word "Sorry", but to try and enforce that, would be tantamount to being pedantic.
I don't see how using fact, after fact, after fact....can be called a smokescreen, separated from reality, etc....and then for you leftys to label me a racist (again! :
.
It's a b!tch, when facts ruin a good story, isn't it fellas? ;D