Brexited

[Giardiasis]

Do you know much about the UK economy or just sprouting theory? A lot of industrial relations red tape has been brought in largely due to a highly unionised workforce. I used to work for the Royal Mail that is incredibly unionised. Unions hold companies to ransom and the government / businesses bring recommendations in to accomodate. You are making an assumption that all this red tape will just be cut as soon as brexit occurs not realising that this was UK led not EU led.

The Brexit vote is quite ironic, in that people blame the tories for it, yet some of the largest leave voting areas are labour strongholds (aside from Scotland though labour wre nigh on wiped out of scotland at the last election). Large tory areas voted remain yet the tories are blamed for pushing to leave. Bear in mind as well that the Tory government of David Cameron was against leaving and he resigned because of it. The last 2 years seem to have forgotten this and Labour has taken on the mantle that the nasty tories wanted this and labour didn't. The voting pattern suggests the total opposite.

I was responding to what the effects of deregulation would be, IF it occurred, I wasn't asserting that it will happen in the UK. You are right, the UK is a socialist sesspool with huge debts, taxes and regulations.

 

[Giardiasis]

Funny how you guys have all the answers but the pollies and pollies advisors at the heart of it all here in the UK, can't come up with a concesus as to what is the best course of action.

You lot should all move here and take up the challenge - you'd certainly make a few £££ in consultancy fees...!!!

I don't think they would appreciate my advice of "you should all resign immediately.".

 

[Baloo]

In London this week and I've yet to meet anyone that now thinks Brexiting is a good thing for Britain.

Barclays have just been granted permission to transfer 160bn GBP to Ireland. Money has been flooding out of the UK at a rapid rate.

 

[Harry]

The people voted for it so hurry up and GTFO.

 

[AngryAnt]

In London this week and I've yet to meet anyone that now thinks Brexiting is a good thing for Britain.

Clearly you only associate with soy-latte drinking Europhiles LOL

 

[AngryAnt]

The people voted for it so hurry up and GTFO.

yeah would be good if the UK government could work out how to actually do that

 

[bullus_hit]

The people voted for it so hurry up and GTFO.

And go where exactly?

 

[mrposhman]

Here we go again, another "utopia" strawman. Stuff your so called studies they aren't worth squat. Anyone that tries to put a number on it you can automatically know they are a charlatan. Whether the UK is better off or not is entirely dependent on what the UK does post brexit. Either it mimics the EU in which case not much will change. They might go worse if they go even harder than the EU in terms of regulations and taxes however I think it far more likely they will go the opposite way. It was often British voices in the EU parliament that argued for less regulations and freer markets after all.

Dropping all tariffs won't happen because there are too many vested interests and too many people that don't understand economics. I've argued what the UK should do regardless of political reality and no, even if your exports have tariffs applied to them, you aren't better off by applying them to imports in kind. Applying them in the hope of holding some form of leverage will still hurt you because you have to go through with it for it to be a real threat. Then there is of course the blatant belligerence to it all, which does nothing to help relations between countries and peoples. It is aggressive, immoral and does not achieve the goals it is aimed at.

The EU is a customs union which is a nice way of saying cartel. How they get away with such an outrageous instiution as that is beyond me. It hurts everyone involved except for the politically connected, which is a very small class of people. The EU accounted for 25% of GDP, the way you make it sound is that this will disappear? The UK is in a trade deficit to the EU, you think that doesn't give the UK significant leverage? You think German car makers will be prepared to have their major market cut from them? Cut the protections, and give businesses the proper incentives to operate as efficiently as possible. Don't let them get away with protections that cut their competitors out.

No doubt the leave campaign had some exaggerations but don't then forget to mention the exaggerations from the remainers. It seems remainers have convinced themselves the leave vote only got up because of lies, it is self delusion.

What you are assuming is the UK have the same negotiating power. They are much smaller alone than the EU / US / China etc therefore negotiating power will not be as strong. It will likely impact economics outside of the UK more, I understand there is a trade deficit to Europe but it is much smaller for those countries outside the EU and therefore I expect trade deals with these nations will be weaker when they are outside of the EU rather than inside. The EU trading block is very powerful being the 2nd largest economy in the world.

 

[Giardiasis]

What you are assuming is the UK have the same negotiating power. They are much smaller alone than the EU / US / China etc therefore negotiating power will not be as strong. It will likely impact economics outside of the UK more, I understand there is a trade deficit to Europe but it is much smaller for those countries outside the EU and therefore I expect trade deals with these nations will be weaker when they are outside of the EU rather than inside. The EU trading block is very powerful being the 2nd largest economy in the world.

The E.U. is a institution of protection, it offers very little flexibility to the countries outside it that it trades with. The UK will be far better off negotiating without the constraints the E.U. apllies, especially dealing with asia and the US. They will get better deals, not worse. And then there is the immoral nature of tariffs of course...

 

[AngryAnt]

It's always amusing to hear the faint cries of the Libertarians in the distance telling us that taxation, regulation and market interference is immoral.

Meanwhile realpolitik intrudes, power-games are played, alliances formed and broken, FTAs agreed and abandoned, regulations enforced. As the Earth keeps revolving around Sol.

 

[Giardiasis]

It's always amusing to hear the faint cries of the Libertarians in the distance telling us that taxation, regulation and market interference is immoral.

Meanwhile realpolitik intrudes, power-games are played, alliances formed and broken, FTAs agreed and abandoned, regulations enforced. As the Earth keeps revolving around Sol.

Your attitude is the same as people that thought slavery was so institutionalised that it was ridiculous to suggest it should be abandoned on moral grounds.

 

[AngryAnt]

Your attitude is the same as people that thought slavery was so institutionalised that it was ridiculous to suggest it should be abandoned on moral grounds.

Slavery is permissable in Libertarianism as it's a "free negotiation" between the slave owner and the slave for work and perpetual servitude in return for food and lodging.

This short article describes the philosophical relationship in Libertarianism between "freedom" and "slavery". Interesting. http://theaporetic.com/?p=2207

 

[Giardiasis]

Slavery is permissable in Libertarianism as it's a "free negotiation" between the slave owner and the slave for work and perpetual servitude in return for food and lodging.

This short article describes the philosophical relationship in Libertarianism between "freedom" and "slavery". Interesting. http://theaporetic.com/?p=2207

Incorrect, at the core of libertarianism is the non aggression principle which slavery clearly contradicts. There is no free negotiation with slavery, how can anyone take you seriously when you peddle such Orwellian doublespeak?

Just more sophistry from people that try to justify violence made in the name of socialism. You’re a modern day slavery apologist, that finds immorality amusing. Interesting.

 

[AngryAnt]

Incorrect, at the core of libertarianism is the non aggression principle which slavery clearly contradicts. There is no free negotiation with slavery, how can anyone take you seriously when you peddle such Orwellian doublespeak?

Actually, Libertarians debate whether voluntary slavery is compatible - that is, a person could sell themselves, voluntarily, into slavery in return for money or some other return contractually arranged. Some say yes, some say no. So there you go.

Just more sophistry from people that try to justify violence made in the name of socialism. You’re a modern day slavery apologist, that finds immorality amusing. Interesting.

The Libertarian argument that paying tax is part time slavery. Yeah, nah, don't buy that one. Hey I do like this comic about Libertarian ideas in feudal times though.

 

[Giardiasis]

Actually, Libertarians debate whether voluntary slavery is compatible - that is, a person could sell themselves, voluntarily, into slavery in return for money or some other return contractually arranged. Some say yes, some say no. So there you go.

The Libertarian argument that paying tax is part time slavery. Yeah, nah, don't buy that one. Hey I do like this comic about Libertarian ideas in feudal times though.

Pretty sure that’s not an exclusive libertarian debate and you’ll find your fair share of faux libertarians (such as the LP in the US), however you can continue to argue against a straw man if it makes you feel better about your indifference to immorality.

The libertarian argument is that taxation is theft. Don’t buy it? Wow what an argument that is...

Cute bit of sophistry there, back to real libertarianism’s take of feudalism:
‘In agreement with Locke’s ideas on the origin of rightful property ownership, Rothbard states: “It should be clear that here, just as in the case of slavery, we have a case of continuing aggression against the true owners — the true possessors — of the land, the tillers, or peasants, by the illegitimate owner, the man whose original and continuing claim to the land and its fruits has come from coercion and violence.” Feudalism is thus one of the classic ways in which “the State provides a legal, orderly, systematic channel for predation on the property of the producers; it makes certain, secure, and relatively ‘peaceful’ the lifeline of the parasitic caste in society.”’

 

[AngryAnt]

" indifference to immorality"

Yeah, guilty as charged.

Anyway, let's head back to Brexit. Much more fun.

 

[DavidSSS]

Cute bit of sophistry there, back to real libertarianism’s take of capitalism:
“It should be clear that here, just as in the case of slavery, we have a case of continuing aggression against the true owners — the true possessors — of the land, the tillers, or peasants, by the illegitimate owner, the man whose original and continuing claim to the land and its fruits has come from coercion and violence.” Capitalism is thus one of the classic ways in which “the State provides a legal, orderly, systematic channel for predation on the work of the producers; it makes certain, secure, and relatively ‘peaceful’ the lifeline of the parasitic caste in society.”’

There, fixed it for you

Back to Brexit: they're f%$#ed, looks like a no deal Brexit coming up. The EU has more economic power than the UK on its own and this ain't going to work out well.

Meanwhile, some people are exposing the Brexiteers for the craven, opportunist liars that they are:

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/it-began-at-the-pub-the-campaign-to-shame-brexit-s-biggest-donkeys-20190201-p50uzq.html

I really like this one:

What a crock they sold to those who bothered to vote.

DS

 

[AngryAnt]

And a stunning insight pn British trade with the EU from your very own Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union

 

[Giardiasis]

There, fixed it for you

Nope, you applied a non sequitur to help put your socialist mind at ease. Quick, back to the chicken little rants about brexit...

 

[DavidSSS]

But Gia, according to your quote the true possessors of the land are the tillers, the peasants. Doesn't that make absentee landlords (a common feature of capitalism) the illegitimate owners with the state providing the channel for predation (as it protects their "private property" rights)? By the way, I really don't give a crap what label you wish to tar me with, it just shows your lack of imagination.

Wow Antman, that quote by Dominic Raab is a beauty isn't it?

DS