Brexited

[AngryAnt]

Tell that to the Greeks. Or the Italians. Or even the Germans (especially their manufacturers) now.

And yet you would struggle to find any German manufacturers who think they would be better off outside the EU.

Anyway midsy, I'm still waiting for you to tell us how English businesses will profit outside the EU. What are the benefits? The sunlit uplands?

 

[Midsy]

And yet you would struggle to find any German manufacturers who think they would be better off outside the EU.

Anyway midsy, I'm still waiting for you to tell us how English businesses will profit outside the EU. What are the benefits? The sunlit uplands?

I'm not an economist or a big business leader, so I have no idea about that. You seem to have all the answers though, even though the best minds in Europe can't agree on what's best.

And for every company that you throw up (eg. Nissan moving the X-Trail production to Japan), there are similar stories of multi-nationals re-investing in London. My brother in law owns an IT infrastructure and design company, and he can't get enough staff to cover the work in the city with companies re-investing.

My very own company will be better off NOT being in the EU. That's what matters to me.

 

[AngryAnt]

I'm not an economist or a big business leader, so I have no idea about that. You seem to have all the answers though, even though the best minds in Europe can't agree on what's best.

Pointing out that the UK parliament has no plan now it's rejected the deal signed off by May and the EU is so far from claiming that I have all the answers it's ridiculous. If you think me pointing that out makes me "bully" or that I "have all the answers" so be it.

And for every company that you throw up (eg. Nissan moving the X-Trail production to Japan), there are similar stories of multi-nationals re-investing in London. My brother in law owns an IT infrastructure and design company, and he can't get enough staff to cover the work in the city with companies re-investing.

My very own company will be better off NOT being in the EU. That's what matters to me.

There are always winners and losers in every change, granted. Self-interest is a completely valid and rational way to vote.

 

[TigerForce]

The Y2K comparison is wrong - I work in IT and I know about the millions of person hours globally that went into preparing for Y2K - rewriting code, changing and upgrading systems, comprehensive testing. This is the main reason why Y2K was a great success for the IT industry - we prepared for it properly over five or more years. We analysed the problem, developed plans and mitigations, executed them in good time. There was definitely a level of public hysteria that was overplayed before 2000 but the IT industry is pragmatic - we just got on with the job. Tick tock.

Prepare for what? You (all) believed in a conspiracy? That's a first for antman... :hihi

 

[YinnarTiger]

You ought to mention the Y2K conspiracy at your next meeting of the flat-earthers or the anti-vaxxers.

 

[Baloo]

Y2K was real. We were able to see what would(n't) work come Jan 1 2000 in labs where we simulated the event. There wasn't much SW or HW that was built/coded before 1995 that could handle the 00 year.

 

[TigerForce]

Y2K was real. We were able to see what would(n't) work come Jan 1 2000 in labs where we simulated the event. There wasn't much SW or HW that was built/coded before 1995 that could handle the 00 year.

Just 5 years earlier?? Bludgers. ;D

I'm no IT expert, but how many information systems wouldn't be programmed with a four digit date after the number 1999 or even just accept a two digit date 00 as 1900, 2000, 2100 etc....

 

[Baloo]

Just 5 years earlier?? Bludgers. ;D

I'm no IT expert, but how many information systems wouldn't be programmed with a four digit date after the number 1999 or even just accept a two digit date 00 as 1900, 2000, 2100 etc....

Most.

 

[TigerForce]

Y2K computer bug turns teen criminals into senior citizens. Reports of sexual assault on an 83 year old woman by an 80 year old man, and two missing 'youths' of ages 83 and 84 were among the flawed reports given by the faulty system, which caused the system to read year 2000 as year 1900, and interpret the year of birth of the parties involved as their ages.

:hihi

 

[Giardiasis]

No struggle here, I know a lame justification when I see one. I also know there are many more options than just free market or socialist, you see I actually read widely and don't live in an ideological straight jacket.

Gia, you remind me of a Trotskyist, its all us or them, and when the free market (or for the Trots some bunch of dictators doing their thing under the umbrella of socialism) turns to crap there is always the claim that it wasn't really a free market (or socialism) and if the free market (or socialist) system was done properly it would all work fine. You have so much in common with socialists you could join them and would fit right in, just swap Marx for Mises (have I spelled that right?).

Brexit (to get somewhere near on topic) shows just how complicated the world is. The reality is that the more economic power you have the more you get to direct your own destiny. Europe has more power together than apart. The UK is already starting to learn this as the EU can afford to refuse to negotiate, but the UK is struggling to control its own destiny.

DS

Ah classic DS, not even attempting to address the arguments. Just throw out a false equivalence and pretend like that’s good enough. For someone who claims to have read widely, your understanding of basic economics and your knowledge of libertarian philosophy would suggest otherwise. You seem well read on socialists like Trotsky however Mises is foreign to you. You heard of Bastiat, Rothbard, Menger, Hermann-Hoppe?

I will even address your deflection for completeness. On the questions of who decides what will be produced and in what quantities and in what manner, there are only two ways David. Either the individual or the collective. Capitialism means the private ownership of the means of production, hence it involves the former. Socialism means the public ownership of the means of production, hence it involves the latter. It goes in various forms such as national socialism, communism, syndicalism, etc. which have differing slants on who gets to be at the top of the chain but for all intents and purposes they share the same foundational principle that private property is to be violated. So basically socialism is best defined as any system of institutional aggression on the free exercise of entrepreneurship. You either have freedom or you have differing levels of coercion.

The problem with your take on brexit is that the E.U. will very much be hurting more with the UK leaving than the other way around. It is likely both will be hit with a recession in the not too distant future but the UK will find it easier to navigate without the handcuffs of the European bureaucracy around their wrists.

 

[DavidSSS]

Germany benefits greatly from an undervalued currency, if they had their own currency their export oriented economy would suffer. They won't admit it but they benefit from being in a currency union with weaker economies.

DS

 

[DavidSSS]

Geez Gia, still only 2 alternatives in you limited universe.

Let me set you straight on one thing, syndicalists would vehemently oppose public ownership of anything as anarchism means no government, or more fundamentally no hierarchical power structures.

Still acting like a Trot, there is your ideological purity and everyone else.

DS

 

[Giardiasis]

Geez Gia, still only 2 alternatives in you limited universe.

Let me set you straight on one thing, syndicalists would vehemently oppose public ownership of anything as anarchism means no government, or more fundamentally no hierarchical power structures.

Still acting like a Trot, there is your ideological purity and everyone else.

DS

Oh there's more than 2? Still don't want to actually argue against that? Mere assertions are enough? Can you back up anything you claim?

Public ownership doesn't presuppose a state, it just means collective ownership.

 

[Giardiasis]

Germany benefits greatly from an undervalued currency, if they had their own currency their export oriented economy would suffer. They won't admit it but they benefit from being in a currency union with weaker economies.

DS

By Germany, I assume you mean Germans. Can you please explain why paying more for imports benefits Germans?

 

[AngryAnt]

Prepare for what? You (all) believed in a conspiracy? That's a first for antman... :hihi

Errr.... the guys who wrote code in the 1960s through to the 1980s didn't think their code would still be in use by the year 2000 so they used an abbreviated calendar year date format. Not sure if that really qualifies as a conspiracy.

Known problem, well understood, complexity was in the mitigation - finding instances of the code, correcting the date format and looking for regression issues in the legacy code. And believe me that cost millions upon millions of dollars to do. When people say "Y2K, there wasn't really a problem", I tell them - yes, there was a big problem - we had to spend a shitload of money fixing it before it happened.

Of course post-Brexit people don't like experts telling them what to do, or even telling them what actually happened, so you can take it or leave it.

 

[TigerForce]

Errr.... the guys who wrote code in the 1960s through to the 1980s didn't think their code would still be in use by the year 2000 so they used an abbreviated calendar year date format. Not sure if that really qualifies as a conspiracy.

Known problem, well understood, complexity was in the mitigation - finding instances of the code, correcting the date format and looking for regression issues in the legacy code. And believe me that cost millions upon millions of dollars to do. When people say "Y2K, there wasn't really a problem", I tell them - yes, there was a big problem - we had to spend a sh!tload of money fixing it before it happened.

Of course post-Brexit people don't like experts telling them what to do, or even telling them what actually happened, so you can take it or leave it.

Through to the 80s...geez...not much forward thinking for an IT industry. Maybe they all thought the world was gonna blow up at 31/12/99..... ;D

We probably need a Frexit thread soon. Paris is boiling.

 

[Baloo]

No one thought their code would last that long. It was also necessity. When memory was scarce, it was a way to save 2 extra bytes of space.

 

[22nd Man]

Errr.... the guys who wrote code in the 1960s through to the 1980s didn't think their code would still be in use by the year 2000 so they used an abbreviated calendar year date format. Not sure if that really qualifies as a conspiracy.

Known problem, well understood, complexity was in the mitigation - finding instances of the code, correcting the date format and looking for regression issues in the legacy code. And believe me that cost millions upon millions of dollars to do. When people say "Y2K, there wasn't really a problem", I tell them - yes, there was a big problem - we had to spend a sh!tload of money fixing it before it happened.

Of course post-Brexit people don't like experts telling them what to do, or even telling them what actually happened, so you can take it or leave it.

Pretty much my view... The remediation Probably overshot in terms of the possible consequences. And not every system that wasn't fixed necessarily crashed on the spot. And it was a goldmine for consulting companies who could fan the fear in the execs of large companies. I was in banking at the time and they were getting local small business to try and ensure their suppliers and utilities were y2k ready....

 

[AngryAnt]

Through to the 80s...geez...not much forward thinking for an IT industry. Maybe they all thought the world was gonna blow up at 31/12/99..... ;D

heh... well they didn't think their code would still be in use post 1999, and that probably made sense at the time.

Frexit? Is that what the Gillet Jaunes want?

 

[AngryAnt]

Pretty much my view... The remediation Probably overshot in terms of the possible consequences. And not every system that wasn't fixed necessarily crashed on the spot. And it was a goldmine for consulting companies who could fan the fear in the execs of large companies. I was in banking at the time and they were getting local small business to try and ensure their suppliers and utilities were y2k ready....

Yeah. apparently South Korea didn't do much remediation at all and were still mostly OK. People have made the case that the increased redundancy, robustness and overall improvements to the systems were a net benefit.