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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
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- Thread starter Baloo
- Start date
Giardiasis said:
What a joke, are you seriously arguing there are 2 alternatives: capitalism and socialism? :rofl Lot's of people, not just now but throughout history, would find this very strange.
Who said anything about public ownership, who said anything at all about ownership? I certainly didn't, you just try and put words in my mouth to justify your own limited imagination.
Just as one example, many societies have had a custodial relationship with the land they live on, not a property relationship. In any case property is coercive, be it private or public.
Property by its very nature must be enforceable, enforcement by its very nature is coercive, it deprives others of the right to use something where ownership is claimed. And where does this ownership claim come from, well Mises states every title comes from either arbitrary appropriation or violent expropriation - not much of a basis for a "natural right" which so called libertarians base their ideas on. The claimed natural right is based on appropriation and expropriation, wonderful stuff this, you claim exclusive use of something by just grabbing it and then claim that your ownership is a natural right. Told you it was lame. Then the libertarians completely ignore the power that property rights give property owners, also ignoring how they need the state or some other coercive apparatus to enforce their property rights. Not very libertarian.
Now Germany is an export oriented country so a lower exchange rate makes their exports more competitive, if they don't export (priced out by a higher value currency) then they have no funds to purchase imports. It is worth it for Germany and, in any case, since they are in a currency union with low cost countries that can produce a lot of their imports and sell them in the same currency there is barely a disadvantage. Are you seriously (in practice not theory) claiming Germany doesn't benefit from being in the Euro which is valued lower than a Deutschmark would be?
You know Gia, you are the only one here telling everyone what society they should live in. You are so prescriptive, you tell everyone they should live in a market society and it has to be a pure free market or it is somehow wrong. Gotta follow the true correct line according to Gia. Brexit is apparently more free market so therefore you must agree with Brexit, otherwise you contradict the correct line according to Gia. Just substitute Mises for Marx and follow the correct line.
DS
In relation to Germany and Brexit, the last thing they will want is a tariff war. 6.6% of their exports are to the UK according to http://www.worldstopexports.com/germanys-top-import-partners/
In or out of the EU, Germany needs the UK as much as the UK needs them.
In or out of the EU, Germany needs the UK as much as the UK needs them.
i agree with you midsy that they will resolve customs and not have tariffs...mostly by the uk adopting the same / similar regulations.
both parties want it to be business as usual in terms of trade.
but it will still mean a lot of companies shifting to europe unless they get significant uk tax breaks.
airbus is an example of a highly politicised company that is talking about shifting the wing manufacturing. send it to northern italy and it calms the natives there.
nissan have shifted the xtrail and will upstumps if they get a better offer.
both parties want it to be business as usual in terms of trade.
but it will still mean a lot of companies shifting to europe unless they get significant uk tax breaks.
airbus is an example of a highly politicised company that is talking about shifting the wing manufacturing. send it to northern italy and it calms the natives there.
nissan have shifted the xtrail and will upstumps if they get a better offer.
antman said:
not really. its a fractured movement and born rural, so there will be some looking to leave. but mostly it is about wealth redistribution and political representation. it is insular, a very french focus.
in short most people think politicians are all *smiles* and so they want better representation (familiar? yep)
but if they just wanted to leave the EU they would vote for La Pen. so its different
It goes deeper than that Antman. There is widespread disillusionment in politicians, the last president Hollande was a deadduck and did absolutely nothing.
The protesters want better representatives (not politicians at the trough) and also a stronger economy
Outside of Paris there hasnt been much growth or renewal, there is definitely less business confidence. For example my colleagues are generally slower to change jobs than aussies.
But the media have shown only protest and violence, and compared it to Uk and usa. There are similar grievances but a different trajectory.
The protesters want better representatives (not politicians at the trough) and also a stronger economy
Outside of Paris there hasnt been much growth or renewal, there is definitely less business confidence. For example my colleagues are generally slower to change jobs than aussies.
But the media have shown only protest and violence, and compared it to Uk and usa. There are similar grievances but a different trajectory.
tigerdell said:
yeah, agree TD. Started with fuel but has gone much broader. The thing it is definitely not about is membership of the EU as far as I can tell. This Voice of America article is pretty good looking at the grievances and possible next moves.
https://www.voanews.com/a/france-yellow-vest-protests/4781616.html
Another one for Midsy, from the official Leave campaign leaflet pre-referendum.
1 - the free trade zone referred to here is the Single Market, and the UK will leave this. There are layers of agreements underneath but Turkey for example has a customs union with the EU to give it some access. The UK has since rejected a customs union with the EU.
2 - true, you don't need to accept the control of the EU Court to trade with the EU. You have to sign up to trade agreements that the EU accepts though if you want to trade
3 - Makes the same point as 2.
4 - feckin' LOL
1 - the free trade zone referred to here is the Single Market, and the UK will leave this. There are layers of agreements underneath but Turkey for example has a customs union with the EU to give it some access. The UK has since rejected a customs union with the EU.
2 - true, you don't need to accept the control of the EU Court to trade with the EU. You have to sign up to trade agreements that the EU accepts though if you want to trade
3 - Makes the same point as 2.
4 - feckin' LOL
Pakistan did even less.... Eg its power generation system was essentially pre software!antman said:
Midsy said:
None of us know. The point.
And business must prepare for the worst case so they will move if the uncertainty continues.
Meanwhile the Sec of Defense thought it would be a good idea to sabre-rattle at China just as they were going into trade negotiations. There's another FTA that won't happen before Brexit.
It's almost as if the Tories don't know what they are doing.
The Tories are a joke, Labour not much better. Nationalism is the menace that is gripping the world, I hear Bannon has spread his tentacles in Brazil, get ready for implosion on a global scale.
E
easy_tiger
Guest
bullus_hit said:
Bannon takes fast talking to another level.
I reckon he has at least half a dozen personality disorders.
He ranks high in my top 10 global most hated list.
