Bye Bye Jack Higgins! | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Bye Bye Jack Higgins!

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
12,504
2,045
Ghost, we've been through this before.

Butler did not play against Port Adelaide in 2019.

It's a figment of your fertile imagination, made up nonsense to validate a dud point of view.

Continuing to say it won't make it real.
His 11th last game for the Tigers was against PA. he struggled.
Ghost isnt all wrong.

Butler is a limited footballer who has great pace, and will have bursts of exciting play, i reckon tho when teams put a bit of work into him he will struggle.

Higgins is a natural footballer, who i expect to have a decent career, without ever threatening superstar status. obviously it is early in the season, but playing as a small forward in a side that has been poor, his has higher disposal and goal averages than Butler has ever had across a season.
 
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Number8

Tiger Matchwinner
Oct 12, 2010
781
1,638
Melbourne
His 11th last game for the Tigers was against PA. he struggled.
Ghost isnt all wrong.
Hah, give me a spell. That game was the previous season and 18 months before he was traded! Ghost was seeing things that never happened, adding a big dollop of invented mayo to embellish a flimsy argument.

I expect Higgins will struggle to hold his spot at St Kilda as the season unfolds. No such concerns over Butler doing so. That left foot goal from the boundary in the third quarter was a thing of beauty.
 
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frangalis4eva

Tiger Superstar
Apr 11, 2009
2,297
149
rowville
Ghost, we've been through this before.

Butler did not play against Port Adelaide in 2019.

It's a figment of your fertile imagination, made up nonsense to validate a dud point of view.

Continuing to say it won't make it real.
it was the adelaide game he is referring to in round 13, and 100%, Butler was terrible that night.
 

zippadeee

Tiger Legend
Oct 8, 2004
35,774
11,212
Higgins is a good footballer when your team is in the bottom 4 not for a team pushing for a flag.
 
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Number8

Tiger Matchwinner
Oct 12, 2010
781
1,638
Melbourne
it was the adelaide game he is referring to in round 13, and 100%, Butler was terrible that night.
Given it was a six goal loss, he wasn't alone.

Here's the thing about forward pockets: when your team isn't going well, forward pocket is the least impactful role on the ground.

In 2019, all bar two of the games Butler played, we lost.

That's why his overall output was down compared with 2017, 2018 and 2020.

So, no surprise it's down in 2021, when the Saints are travelling poorly ... and predictable that his greatest impact was in the win against West Coast, closely followed by the win against GWS.

I'd have Butler in our side right now in a heartbeat.
 
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BillyJean17

Tiger Champion
Jul 27, 2009
2,649
436
melbourne
Given it was a six goal loss, he wasn't alone.

Here's the thing about forward pockets: when your team isn't going well, forward pocket is the least impactful role on the ground.

In 2019, all bar two of the games Butler played, we lost.

That's why his overall output was down compared with 2017, 2018 and 2020.

So, no surprise it's down in 2021, when the Saints are travelling poorly ... and predictable that his greatest impact was in the win against West Coast, closely followed by the win against GWS.

I'd have Butler in our side right now in a heartbeat.
The coach wouldn’t
 

tigerlove

Tiger Legend
Aug 9, 2014
13,890
3,368
Given it was a six goal loss, he wasn't alone.

Here's the thing about forward pockets: when your team isn't going well, forward pocket is the least impactful role on the ground.

In 2019, all bar two of the games Butler played, we lost.

That's why his overall output was down compared with 2017, 2018 and 2020.

So, no surprise it's down in 2021, when the Saints are travelling poorly ... and predictable that his greatest impact was in the win against West Coast, closely followed by the win against GWS.

I'd have Butler in our side right now in a heartbeat.
Butler has had a [email protected] season. Takeaway West coast game he's scored 2 goals and 1 goal assist in 4 games. Had a great 2020 though. Can play a lot better than he is atm.
 

123cups

Tiger Superstar
May 1, 2016
2,303
1,842
Yes he had the highest recorded junior Supercoach average, higher than next best Gary Ablett Jnr. I was very high on him for that reason, he was a gunn as a kid. But about a year ago I read things from other recruiters from other clubs and they weren't high on him improving, they thought his best had arrived as all he wanted to be was an AFL Footballer and therefore he was way ahead of other 15, 16 years who weren't 100% into it like him, they obviously took an interest in their schooling.

So we took the chance he'd improve but he just plateaud and lots of them kids are now just as good and many are way better.

I have therefore revised my research and reviewing young players, adding the factor off whether they had reached their best or not before playing AFL Football, the Higgins effect :mhihi

I’d also wonder if the player is strategically working the SuperCoach stats to his advantage. I’m sure if you studied them, you could figure out a bunch of tricks to boost your own score regardless of what’s best for the team. Not sure how to detect it though.

A simplistic example might be if you kick it to someone with no other options, run behind him knowing he has no options, receive the ball, handball back to him so he’s under pressure, then run past to get him out of trouble with another handball receive before kicking it 40m to a contest.

2 kicks, 1 handball, 100% efficiency... no impact.
 
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Ricemagic

Tiger Cub
Feb 8, 2021
131
194
55
Many recruiters thought Jack Graham was a man child and had reached his potential with no upside ;) :)
No one knocks back a man child unless you're that club that'll be watching him live this Saturday night again when you could have used pick 1 or 2 on him ;)

The biggest knocks on 'That Is' unfortunately are what a few of our fans go on about today - his pace and kicking :(
 
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Ricemagic

Tiger Cub
Feb 8, 2021
131
194
55
I’d also wonder if the player is strategically working the SuperCoach stats to his advantage. I’m sure if you studied them, you could figure out a bunch of tricks to boost your own score regardless of what’s best for the team. Not sure how to detect it though.

A simplistic example might be if you kick it to someone with no other options, run behind him knowing he has no options, receive the ball, handball back to him so he’s under pressure, then run past to get him out of trouble with another handball receive before kicking it 40m to a contest.

2 kicks, 1 handball, 100% efficiency... no impact.
Mate you hit the nail on the head :cupgoldSurprised our drafters didn't pick up on it because we saw it live and heard many complaints from fans on the below during his time at Richmond. From one of his draft profiles

"A potential improvement for Higgins is his hurt factor with ball in hand when playing in the midfield. Whilst he possesses some of the quickest and clean hands in the 2017 draft crop, Higgins’ kicks can often lack hurt factor – going sideways or being short passes to his teammates. In the TAC Cup this year, Higgins opted to pass it short effectively on average three more times per game than kicking it long to a teammate. Higgins’ kicking efficiency of 60 per cent in the TAC Cup and 69 per cent in the National Under 18 Championships was helped at times, by Higgins picking an easy option short or sideways rather than kicking long to a teammate or a contest".

So definitely you complete more % of your chip kicks instead of going longer and turning the ball over, or making a clanger, your Supercoach score goes up.
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
21,554
7,118
Given it was a six goal loss, he wasn't alone.

Here's the thing about forward pockets: when your team isn't going well, forward pocket is the least impactful role on the ground.

In 2019, all bar two of the games Butler played, we lost.

That's why his overall output was down compared with 2017, 2018 and 2020.

So, no surprise it's down in 2021, when the Saints are travelling poorly ... and predictable that his greatest impact was in the win against West Coast, closely followed by the win against GWS.

I'd have Butler in our side right now in a heartbeat.


Another reason his output was down in 2019 was he wasn't playing well enough to get into the seniors.
 

Number8

Tiger Matchwinner
Oct 12, 2010
781
1,638
Melbourne
Another reason his output was down in 2019 was he wasn't playing well enough to get into the seniors.
Not sure that's quite right. He was brought into the side on three separate occasions in 2019. His finals series in the VFL was also pretty good. I think he was more the victim of a fundamental forward line restructure, in which Tom Lynch effectively took the spot of one of the smalls, and Dusty played more minutes forward.
 
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achillesjones

"just kick it to Royce"
Apr 19, 2004
2,299
999
Happy to remember Higgo's goal over his head against the pies and Dan's sealer against the Crows and leave it at that.
 
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