Cardinal George Pell, The Catholic Church and Child Sex Abuse

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

How and when did Pell become our patron?

Pell was appointed vice-patron in 1997, the year after he became Archbishop of Melbourne.

From the club website:

Patron - A person who provides significant, enduring, material support to the Club and / or who has very high standing or profile in the community and who would bring interest, prestige or assist in popularising the Club among existing members and the community. Patrons are appointed by the Board in accordance with the Constitution.

 

[easy_tiger]

Alan Jones prefers young men to young boys. He could admit and actually go up in people's estimations.

Under his pastoral care, allegedly.

He might go up slightly in my estimations? Maybe just above Pell, and slightly below Bolt?

But this is Pell's time.

Wonder Cardinal Pell is holding some kind of vigil in the pedopreist protection wing tonight?

Wonder if hes meek?

Me and snakes older bro put it well in a text

'Right wingers falling over themselves supporting Pell. Fits their credo perfectly ..... identify the most vulnerable, *smile* them, shame them, then blame them'

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Right wingers falling over themselves supporting Pell.

I don't have a stake in it. If I were more convinced of his guilt, I might be as angry as some here.

 

[easy_tiger]

I don't have a stake in it. If I were more convinced of his guilt, I might be as angry as some here.

I was referring to john howards character reference in court and andrew bolts spirited defence on sky.

But youre entitled to identify if you want L2R2.

Its a free country.

Well, not for george any more.

I bet cory bernadi steals my brothers sound bite for his election campaign

'*smile* em, shame em and blame em Vote Bernadi'

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

I was referring to john howards character reference in court and andrew bolts spirited defence on sky.

But youre entitled to identify if you want L2R2.

Its a free country.

Well, not for george any more.

That's the nature of being "conservative". Should one person's recollections be sufficient to destroy a man?

I might be more convinced when the royal commission's findings are eventually released.

 

[spook]

I bet cory bernadi steals my brothers sound bite for his election campaign

'*smile* em, shame em and blame em Vote Bernadi'

:hihi

L2, his own lawyer described one of his offences as a “plain vanilla sexual penetration case where the child is not actively participating” (aka "rape"), as if that somehow mitigates things.

'The chief judge, Peter Kidd, responded: “It must be clear to you by now I’m struggling with that submission. Looking at your points here – so what?”

'He said he saw Pell’s behaviour as “callous, brazen offending” and “shocking conduct”.'

The bloke's guilty as sin. Unfortunately there's no hell for him to rot in. Hopefully he gets to spend some time in general population.

 

[tigerman]

Some good has come from the Royal Commission into child abuse.

"Until the royal commission, parish priests pretty much had direct access to primary schools, and were direct employers. Soon that will be a thing of the past.

Lay leadership of the church school system is increasingly separate from the parishes. Child protection measures in the school system are increasingly robust, and robust enough at this point in history to retain the confidence of the majority of parents.

But the division between parish church and parish schools and institutions is gradually being locked in legally. This is a direct consequence of recommendation 16.6 from the Royal Commission. And it is a profound change."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-27/pell-guilty-verdict-what-will-it-mean-for-australian-catholics/10853218

 

[easy_tiger]

That's the nature of being "conservative". Should one person's recollections be sufficient to destroy a man?

I might be more convinced when the royal commission's findings are eventually released.

You dont need to be convinced L2.

The jury already was.

Pell raped a child.

The rights rallying defence of an aggravated pedophile fraudster is unprecedented

If i didnt understand their social darwinist ideology,
I wouldnt beleive it

 

[Tigers of Old]

I feel very sorry for the victim here. Not just for having to live a life after such heinous acts but also for having to go through such a grueling court process. Now even after a conviction, they're facing an appeal against a Church with seemingly bottomless pits of money. Must be absolutely harrowing. Can't imagine anyone putting themselves through such an ordeal if they weren't telling the truth. Enormous courage. Power to them.

 

[Midsy]

I feel very sorry for the victim here. Not just for having to live a life after such heinous acts but also for having to go through such a grueling court process. Now even after a conviction, they're facing an appeal against a Church with seemingly bottomless pits of money. Must be absolutely harrowing. Can't imagine anyone putting themselves through such an ordeal if they weren't telling the truth. Enormous courage. Power to them.

You want the stories of victims of the Catholic paedo ring, start here:

http://www.brokenrites.org.au/drupal/node/62

I was an altar boy with this prick in charge. I was one of the lucky ones though.

 

[IanG]

Save the Jedi. Time for the Catholic Church to end. While we're at it, let's get rid of the hypocritical, money-grubbing Church of Mass Hysteria the nightwatchman PM belongs to. And all the other ones too.

Just found out today that the founder of Hillsong was a paedophile, his son who took over from him covered it up and Scomo continues to support him and blame the victim, FMD.

 

[easy_tiger]

That's the nature of being "conservative". Should one person's recollections be sufficient to destroy a man?

I might be more convinced when the royal commission's findings are eventually released.

Thats not really an accurate rhetorical encapsulation of the modern conservative ideology i dont think L2.

The question the conservatives are mostly asking in private is

Should a poor vulnerable mans recollections be able to destroy a rich powerful man?

Its so vexatious to the flag bearers Howard and Bolt , so abhorent to them that one of their kind was unable to forcefully put his *smile* in a boys mouth with impunity,

That they went public and are prepared to bolster their reputations on it.

I feel very sorry for the victim here. Not just for having to live a life after such heinous acts but also for having to go through such a grueling court process. Now even after a conviction, they're facing an appeal against a Church with seemingly bottomless pits of money. Must be absolutely harrowing. Can't imagine anyone putting themselves through such an ordeal if they weren't telling the truth. Enormous courage. Power to them.

Yeah well said Olds.

For every bloke like this who has been able to endure and take back his power,

There would be a hundred dead, in prison and living
tormented lives.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

You want the stories of victims of the Catholic paedo ring, start here:

http://www.brokenrites.org.au/drupal/node/62

I was an altar boy with this prick in charge. I was one of the lucky ones though.

I've often wondered if the horrid cycle of sexual depravity and sadism begins in Catholic monasteries when the monks are young, naive and corruptible. Such deeply entrenched and concentrated behaviour in an organisation doesn't come from no where. I see it as highly likely that the monasteries are corrupt institutions of disgusting ritualised, sadistic sexual initiation, where they are all rooting and raping each other. An appalling self fulfilling cycle of deviance & perversion.

And it's just bizarre that it's taken so long for this to all become prosecuted. Even when I was a child in the 1980s, I remember my grandparents looking down their nose at Catholics as a bizarre sect/cult of "kiddy fiddling p...ters" (to quote one of my grandfathers, as he so eloquently put it). So not like it was a secret even then. Plenty of talk and innuendo of the lifestyle of Catholic Priests for many, many years. Granted, there was probably an element of sectarianism in my grandparent's suspicion/contempt of Catholics. But not like it was an unknown phenomenon in wider circles. So it's unforgivable that it's taken so long.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

L2, his own lawyer described one of his offences as a “plain vanilla sexual penetration case where the child is not actively participating” (aka "rape"), as if that somehow mitigates things.

He's obligated to refer to the alleged event as fact following the conviction. "Plain vanilla" is an attempt to mitigate it.

'He said he saw Pell’s behaviour as “callous, brazen offending” and “shocking conduct”.'

Yep, as described by the witness, it was brazen beyond words. I'd say compulsive, the act of someone who cannot control themselves. And someone who's done it plenty of times before. A monster. Where's the history of such offending?

The bloke's guilty as sin.

Not sure about that.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

You dont need to be convinced L2.

The jury already was.

Pell raped a child.

The rights rallying defence of an aggravated pedophile fraudster is unprecedented

If i didnt understand their social darwinist ideology,
I wouldnt beleive it

They're sticking their necks out against the tide of public opinion. They might not believe he's guilty or they might just be doing a favour for a friend. Once again, it's a free world.

 

[easy_tiger]

They're sticking their necks out against the tide of public opinion. They might not believe he's guilty or they might just be doing a favour for a friend. Once again, it's a free world.

Yes it is a free world.

Unless you rape boys.

Not sure about that.

Thats like not being so sure the sun rose this morning L2.

He IS guilty, hence the deprivation of liberty.

An interesting feature of the commentary post verdict,

Is those saying he couldnt have done it, no way could you unhitch a cistern, lift a cassock over a haddock and get you *smile* out

Without having heard the testimony of The Victim, whose 13 year old mouth got a 60 year old *smile* shoved in it.

Now Pell had the best qc in the land, all the churches wealth, power and connections behind him,

And yet the jury of 12 ordinary members of society unanimously beleived the victim, without a doubt?

I served on a jury in a child sex case last year and on the basis of that experience alone, Id be astonished if the jury got it wrong. Further, the judge has a lot of scope to infer his or her beliefs surrounding the case, and judge Kidds veiwpoint is abundantly clear.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Thats like not being so sure the sun rose this morning L2.

I see it more like Dusty being charged on chopstick woman's description of events, and there being no other witnesses, Dusty is convicted and sent to jail.

In that episode, many rushed to judgement based on pre-conceived opinions and ended up looking foolish.

I realise this is different, it wasn't trial by media and he's in a lot of trouble unless it can be shown that the jury delivered an unsound verdict. Maybe I'll come around in time, but I need more than one person's shaky recollections.

 

[Ian4]

It shouldn't. Governments should tax them to the shizen, fine them to buggery, and seize all their assets.

here here. :clap :clap :clap

Wish george had made Pope now.

imagine the repercushions had this happened.

'Right wingers falling over themselves supporting Pell. Fits their credo perfectly ..... identify the most vulnerable, *smile* them, shame them, then blame them'

imagine of Pell was an IMAM.

I feel very sorry for the victim here. Not just for having to live a life after such heinous acts but also for having to go through such a grueling court process. Now even after a conviction, they're facing an appeal against a Church with seemingly bottomless pits of money. Must be absolutely harrowing. Can't imagine anyone putting themselves through such an ordeal if they weren't telling the truth. Enormous courage. Power to them.

especially when he's a certainty to become a target of the right wing media at some point.

 

[IanG]

I realise this is different, it wasn't trial by media and he's in a lot of trouble unless it can be shown that the jury delivered an unsound verdict. Maybe I'll come around in time, but I need more than one person's shaky recollections.

Shaky recollections? You were there were you.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Shaky recollections? You were there were you.

Red wine/white wine, "What are you doing in here?" OR "You're in trouble" etc, and that was just the first time around when a hung jury was 10-2 in favour of acquittal. The complainant did not give evidence at the second trial.

Look, it's entirely plausible that Pell is a pedo or at least has pedo tendencies. But much less plausible that it happened like this. I'll refrain from further comment until more information is available.