Global warming ? Sounds like your globes are warming up Willos ! Go get em ! Grrrrr …like a fighting tiger !
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Climate Change
- Thread starter Disco08
- Start date
Where do you get those figures from?
What size nuclear tech vs renewables are you referring to?
What is the life of renewables before they need replacing? And at what cost?
It seems like your understanding of economics in this case is highly flawed. Plucking numbers to suit your argument
Still a lot of unknowns.
Thats pretty funny given you're posting videos from those who are coming at the issue from an ideological POV.
On the heartland institute:
Heartland Institute - Bias and Credibility
QUESTIONABLE SOURCE A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no
mediabiasfactcheck.com
I've actually found a couple of those videos quite interesting. Important to keep an open mind from both sides of the argument..
The economics of renewables with a grid system gets very challenged when the renewables form a large percentage of supply. There are some good studies out there that shows how this cost asymptote’s if you have no firming base load. Essentially marginal renewables freeload on the existing capacity with their variability.
Firming (batteries) become much more
Important and currently that is pretty expensive.
I get disappointed at the simplicity of the debate. Wind plus batteries plus grid is way more expensive than is portrayed by the left that plucks the marginal cost at the turbine (which is very cheap) and ignores the capital and overcapacity that is needed. We have people quoting SA statistics ignoring the coal electricity stoppage by the state from falling over getting imported from other states.
On the flip side. Solar behind the meter and electrification attached to that and simple things like insulation and better design codes are a lay down misere and just blow away the economics of business as normal.
We shouldn’t let perfection (net zero) get in the way of really good and attach ourselves to an ideology that will actually slow the transition down by making cost of living explode with foreseeable consequences.
Firming (batteries) become much more
Important and currently that is pretty expensive.
I get disappointed at the simplicity of the debate. Wind plus batteries plus grid is way more expensive than is portrayed by the left that plucks the marginal cost at the turbine (which is very cheap) and ignores the capital and overcapacity that is needed. We have people quoting SA statistics ignoring the coal electricity stoppage by the state from falling over getting imported from other states.
On the flip side. Solar behind the meter and electrification attached to that and simple things like insulation and better design codes are a lay down misere and just blow away the economics of business as normal.
We shouldn’t let perfection (net zero) get in the way of really good and attach ourselves to an ideology that will actually slow the transition down by making cost of living explode with foreseeable consequences.
As I said..On the heartland institute:
Heartland Institute - Bias and Credibility
QUESTIONABLE SOURCE A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no
Try watching what the man says. Not the hosting site. I can get you more on Professor Plimer that’s not from the Heartland Institute
On Plimer:
Geologist misleads with climate change ‘proof’ claim
A climate sceptic says he's spent two decades waiting for proof from scientists on human-induced climate change.
www.aap.com.au
Professor double counts with claim Australia is already at net zero
Ian Plimer suggests Australia is in the clear as the nation has already reached net zero emissions.
www.aap.com.au
Plimer doesn't know his arse from his elbow. He is an embarrassment.
The stuff you've been posting as evidence Willo is outdated, false, or both. I can't be stuffed writing an essay, but 1 very small example, a friend of mine has a 2 yo EV, very shiny and new-looking, the current model has a 150% longer range and the batteries are smaller and lighter and it charges 60% faster. Electrification is not the whole answer, I agree with you if that is a point you are trying to make, but it is part of it and it is happening fast.
I read an article under a year ago about cars being plugged into your house to power your house, charge it up at work during the day, free power. Car and house batteries are the same. This seemed pretty futuristic. About 6 months later Hyundai are selling an EV you can plug into your house to power it, apparently others will quickly follow. This has huge implications, one is it potentially halves the amount of batteries we need for personal use.
These are very complex radical changes that need to be made. Its going to be hard. I'm genuinely not sure what you're point is. Climate change is *smile*? Electrification is *smile*? Change should happen instantly? Nuclear will save us? All false.
Forrests line that the Coalition push for nuclear is an excuse for doing nothing is bullseye, nail-on-the-head, spot on as you can possibly get. They did nothing on nuclear for 10 years when in power, if they get into power again and do the sums, they will do nothing on nuclear for however many years they stay in power.
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Andrew ‘Twiggy’ Forrest labels Coalition push for nuclear energy ‘bulldust’ and a ‘new lie’
Mining billionaire says cost of nuclear will be four to five times that of renewables and opposition’s policy is ‘an excuse for doing nothing’
Cost of nuclear.
Nuclear energy too expensive to replace fossil fuels: CSIRO
The latest report from the CSIRO about the cost of energy generation has found that nuclear power won’t be an option in Australia, at least this decade.
lead time for building nuclear power plant in Australia - factor in required regulatory change to allow nuclear and 20 years would be optimistic.
Why nuclear energy is not worth the risk for Australia | Climate Council
Federal Opposition Leader Peter Dutton and the Liberal-National Coalition have said that, if they win the next Federal Election, they will attempt to build nuclear reactors in communities around Australia to produce electricity. Here’s what you need to know about this risky energy scheme.
www.climatecouncil.org.au
I cant remember you citing a single figure in this entire debate - why? Because all you have is fossil fuel industry talking points pulled out of your arse and by arse I mean YouTube videos.
Post actual data you lazy fraud.
I think so many people live in a bubble,they think Australia ,,or Metro areas of Australia are another planet,and things just magically appear in supermarkets etc etc .
Most of the renewables that is on the market are from the highest polluting countries in the world,and Australia has no problem supplying coal to them .
As for economics ,lets all get rid of all your gas products and replace them,lets go and get new solar panels ,or upgrade old ones,let's all go out and buy a new ev ,lets go and replace all the trucks on the road with electric ones,same for farm machinery .
Lets do it when there is a cost of living crisis
How much is it going to cost to redo all the powerlines.
And how much pollution comes from making all these brand new green/renewable products ,,that needs coal to supply the power to mass build .
America is the craziest country around,but Australia is fast becoming the dumbest ,at least the majority is starting to wake out of there deep sleep,and getting back to reality.
Most of the renewables that is on the market are from the highest polluting countries in the world,and Australia has no problem supplying coal to them .
As for economics ,lets all get rid of all your gas products and replace them,lets go and get new solar panels ,or upgrade old ones,let's all go out and buy a new ev ,lets go and replace all the trucks on the road with electric ones,same for farm machinery .
Lets do it when there is a cost of living crisis
How much is it going to cost to redo all the powerlines.
And how much pollution comes from making all these brand new green/renewable products ,,that needs coal to supply the power to mass build .
America is the craziest country around,but Australia is fast becoming the dumbest ,at least the majority is starting to wake out of there deep sleep,and getting back to reality.
Agree with this. We're quickly following the US down the RWNJ Christian Facism that's engulfing the US. With our lack of media diversity we're at risk of overtaking them.
*smile* America,this is Australia .
You think this country hasn't got a lot of left wing nuts/fanatics ,you only have to see the regular left wing posters on these sort of threads to see that.
Lucky the majority of the country doesn't see it that way .
As for the lack of media diversity ,just because it doesn't fit your narrative or ideology ,doesn't always mean it's wrong.
Do you think anybody is saying we can just flick a switch and magically radically transform from hydrocarbons to renewable overnight? Its a straw man. Its akin to someone getting a house built turning up after a week after footings have been dug, and saying ' you idiots said you were building a house, wheres my house?
What is your solution?
Last federal election and majority of States being a "left" Party would point to you begin wrong, again, on that.
True. Murdoch's short range weather forecasts are as good as any other outlet. But when they do long range reports they need to trumpet the "Climate Change isn't happening" narrative that Rupert prefers.
The simple solution is do things gradually ,until you have a constant supply of power,you are not going to get that from current renewables.
The current Labor government ,are pushing there agenda way too hard ,and same for the Victorian Labor government .
As for nuclear costing to much ,l would love to see the total costs of all the solar /wind/hydro etc costs to set up,and that doesn't include the cost of redoing the power lines .
Then the replacement costs after a storm,which happened in WA to a solar farm,,l think last year.
I mean some people don't have a problem with a tunnel being billions over budget in victoria among other things,,so they shouldn't have a problem with a nuclear plant providing people with constant power.
You completely miss the point. You say the simple thing is to do it slowly and gradually and in some ways that is right, but you have to have an overall plan. Doing things piecemeal will invaraibly provide a solution that fails both environmentally and financially.
There has to be a complete plan for our overall energy network, and I don't think many countries have that. This plan needs to determine:
1 - How much power do we require now and what is that forecast to be in the future
2 - How can we minimise and reduce power demand
3 - How should we source the power to supply that demand
4 - How do we transmit that power to where it needs to be
In my view, the power grid is basically a dead system, especially in Australia. Its far too big and therefore costly, and networks need to be built on a smaller scale, without the requirements to transmit energy across hundreds of kms of power lines.
This article goes into how we can decentralise the grid, and there is a 2nd one which I also think is really important for Australia, around microgrids, as we have many smaller rural communities. Africa is a great example of using microgrids. They are essentially powering people that have never had power before, certainly not reliable power and putting the ownership and generation of the power into the peoples hands.
The future of the grid is demand responsive and decentralised -
Corporate-backed startups are emerging to help restructure the energy grid as we switch over to renewables.
globalventuring.com
I'm not a huge fan of large scale solar farms etc. Its my view (and has been for a long term) that both from a decentralised system perspective, a devolved capital structure (away from governments) and for effective land use, that rooftop solar is the way forward. Sure thats a lot of solar panels to manufacture, and there are some very real issues around the supply chain for this, but there needs to be a method of recycling and reusing components of existing solar systems when they need replacing. We have time to figure that out, but these are the solutions that we need big business and governments to solve, but we need an identified national plan (all countries need 1) as to how they will move from our current scenario into a future one. It will take time, and thats where transitional power sits, and perhaps there will be a need for transitional power backups at least for the near term and maybe even medium term future, but without a clear defined plan (and I don't think our govt has one, the Libs certainly don't and I don't think Labor do either) then we will get nowhere.
Could Rooftop Solar Really Provide Enough Electricity For The Entire World?
It’s a boom time for renewable energy. Now, an international team of researchers has determined that rooftop solar alone could generate an almost unthinkable amount of power.
www.forbes.com
Now obviously thats only really looking at power generation for homes and businesses, and use of power is so much more than that. As I mentioned, minimisation of power supply, can we do things differently to power our buildings, are there minimum temp requirements for offices for example. Ie. do we really need offices and houses reduced to 19-20 degrees, why not 23 or 24 degrees? Thats a significant power saving. Use of heat pumps save energy, as RE also mentions, how do we get more insulation into homes, both wall and ceiling. These are significant steps that can certainly reduce power demand.
Personally, I think the "green brigade" of those being protestors etc are a bit scattered in what they want. They move all over the place and move from this to that, that they can never really drive change. They need to focus on the most achievable changes asap. EV's, planes and ships are not that. We need to wait for trials to complete on many things, green ammonia could be a solution (I know others disagree but I personally think this is a viable alternative for the maritime industry which I think uses about 20% of worldwide FF use).
I think most that read about this sort of thing know that there is no short or quick fix. To get this right, the key is infrastructure that frankly does not exist yet but should be at the forefront of any changes that we make whether thats in Australia or overseas.
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