Climate Change

[Baloo]

No I don’t believe that image is fair or balanced. Surely you don’t give enough credit to other readers or viewers.

It seems arrogant that the group think brigade here that decry Murdoch media (and others?) can see it but others are too dumb to be able to differentiate.

If it wasn't working they wouldn't keep doing it. But they continue to do it so it's working for them.

I'll admit I dismiss most things News Ltd publish. I just don't bother reading anymore because it's a waste of my time. But there are plenty on here that will take the time to post media from other sources, even scientific ones, the gives the same story without the bias. They have more patience than me.

But that’s the difference with having free will and a free mind. You don’t worry about having to tow another’s persons line to fit in.
Individuality versus group think. Neither is always right. But I’d rather be curious and find out for myself using multiple source rather than rely on who is on the “approved group think list”.
But that’s an individual’s prerogative

LOL. You think there is a set of media or an agenda for those pointing out News Ltd is untrustworthy? If there is, I haven't seen it or maybe I'm not invited to the club. But to claim it's only those that have News Limited listed as a reliable source of information are the only ones showing individuality takes the arrogance cake by a long way.

But enough of this. You trust News Limited, I don't. We wont find common ground. As for being me being arrogant towards News Ltd subscribers, if having little time for serious debate with people who use News Ltd as a trusted source makes me arrogant, so be it it, I'll own it. If they are Pro-Trump as well, let me know what's after arrogant and I'll own that too. I've got plenty of other mindless things to do that are far more enjoyable.

 

[bengal tigers]

Australia should stick with coal and gas and develop a nuclear plan for the future. We could even pioneer nuclear fusion energy which has minimal radioactive waste and can be stopped and started at will.

The money we are pouring down the drain for these wind and solar generators, the impediments to industry, and the incompetent dolts we pay to govern us, could have paid for 10 years of nuclear development and should 'rattle' every Australian.

This is Bowen standing in the bucket, pulling the handle, and saying he has lifted himself off the ground.

 

[mrposhman]

Australia should stick with coal and gas and develop a nuclear plan for the future. We could even pioneer nuclear fusion energy which has minimal radioactive waste and can be stopped and started at will.

The money we are pouring down the drain for these wind and solar generators, the impediments to industry, and the incompetent dolts we pay to govern us, could have paid for 10 years of nuclear development and should 'rattle' every Australian.

This is Bowen standing in the bucket, pulling the handle, and saying he has lifted himself off the ground.

How does rooftop solar work into "your future" or it doesn't? Can you provide examples of costs for the plants you suggest we should have that even come close to the cost of rooftop solar?

 

[bengal tigers]

How does rooftop solar work into "your future" or it doesn't? Can you provide examples of costs for the plants you suggest we should have that even come close to the cost of rooftop solar?

Rooftop solar is not a constant and reliable source of power ,wind farms are the same .
How much has it cost Australians including all forms of Government to go to renewables so far,and into the future ,Billions for a unreliable power source,and the Hydro power plant that is being built is already billions over budget,that's just one project.

I have nothing against renewables ,and they do play a part in the percentage of power produced,but we need a reliable constant source of power,and renewables we have at the moment are not it.

BTW,your question is like Antman........

 

[mrposhman]

Rooftop solar is not a constant and reliable source of power ,wind farms are the same .
How much has it cost Australians including all forms of Government to go to renewables so far,and into the future ,Billions for a unreliable power source,and the Hydro power plant that is being built is already billions over budget,that's just one project.

I have nothing against renewables ,and they do play a part in the percentage of power produced,but we need a reliable constant source of power,and renewables we have at the moment are not it.

BTW,your question is like Antman........

How is my question like Antman. I clearly showed the cost of my particular unit on my home which is on the smaller side. In terms of government funding, the cost per mwh would be even smaller for those with larger units on their homes. Solar and relevant battery storage (and I'm way more on the community battery side than anything else) will help to drive costs down AND provide a power source that is more reliable throughout the day. This may result in a need for overcapacity within the system to some extent, and would work much better in states with constant sunlight such as QLD and WA.

What you seem to miss with this, is the cost of transmission lines. By moving away from the archaic and expensive national grid network, you actually push to reduce costs.

Do you know in your power bill how your costs of electricity are split up? Roughly half of the cost per kwh that is passed to you, is related to transmission costs, which are largely there because of the requirement to transmit energy over a long distance, either to rural communities or to connect power plants that are far away from cities. You seem to miss that in a "new world" vision of electricity power supply, the grid system doesn't actually make sense. The cost of transmission would largely be focused on the "base power" drivers that you are wanting to push, yet in a more community driven mini grid system, the transmission costs would be much lower, and therefore drive the overall cost of supplying and storing energy down significantly.

You seem to have a very closed mind to be thinking that the only way we can power the nation is doing it the same way we've always done it but with a differently powered power station at the end of the cables.

My view is any regional town, we should be aiming to make them self sufficient from an energy / storage position. QLD / WA and NT could do this easily. NSW probably could too. Its only the southern states like VIC, TAS and SA that may need to do something differently, due to the lower level of sunlight in the southern states.

 

[Brodders17]

Australia should stick with coal and gas and develop a nuclear plan for the future. We could even pioneer nuclear fusion energy which has minimal radioactive waste and can be stopped and started at will.

The money we are pouring down the drain for these wind and solar generators, the impediments to industry, and the incompetent dolts we pay to govern us, could have paid for 10 years of nuclear development and should 'rattle' every Australian.

This is Bowen standing in the bucket, pulling the handle, and saying he has lifted himself off the ground.

BT, can you clarify, do you think climate change is real? do you think humans impact climate change? and do you think humans should do anything to mitigate climate change?

 

[mrposhman]

Rooftop solar is not a constant and reliable source of power ,wind farms are the same .
How much has it cost Australians including all forms of Government to go to renewables so far,and into the future ,Billions for a unreliable power source,and the Hydro power plant that is being built is already billions over budget,that's just one project.

I have nothing against renewables ,and they do play a part in the percentage of power produced,but we need a reliable constant source of power,and renewables we have at the moment are not it.

BTW,your question is like Antman........

BTW, do you have rooftop solar? I do, and whilst its not as reliable as other sources of power, its not as bad as you make out, especially if we can utilise community battery storage.

For example, my system even in winter provides around 8-9 kwh for my 12-13 kwh requirement. Its a bit short but my system is small at 5 kwh. The average system going onto roofs now I believe is something like 8.5 kwh which is enough to cater off for the difference even in the winter using battery technology. Its just driving further upkeep.

 

[bengal tigers]

BT, can you clarify, do you think climate change is real? do you think humans impact climate change? and do you think humans should do anything to mitigate climate change?

Ask The LABOR hypocrites who allow supply of coal to china etc to make all these green power machines,while spruiking how great they are with emissions .
China produces something like 30-35 percent of the world emissions ,Australia produces something like 1 percent ,and China are building more coal power stations.
Ask the great climate warrior Bowen who's state Queensland has a high level of fossil fuel for it's power.

 

[mrposhman]

Ask the great climate warrior Bowen who's state Queensland has a high level of fossil fuel for it's power.

As you've been repeating ad nasuem its a transition. It certainly is. QLD has 17,000 megawatts of power generated for the NEM. 48% of that is coal and 19% is gas BUT if you care to dig a little deeper since the last coal plant was added to the network (it was waste coal planet in 2008) they have added 5,600 megawatts of power (33% of their total) with gas adding 1500 in 2009 and 2010 and since then only new renewables have been added, which have added 4,200 megawatts from solar and wind farms.

Electricity generation | Business Queensland

www.business.qld.gov.au

None of the above includes rooftop solar which you like to ignore for some reason, despite being the cheapest source of adding supply to our network (obviously goes against your beliefs for whatever reason),

For rooftop solar, this link shows that nearly 11% (as of last June) of their electricity capacity was now being produced via rooftop solar.

Queensland’s renewable energy targets

Track Queensland’s progress to 50% renewable energy by 2030.

www.epw.qld.gov.au

You say its a transition, and then when states transition you say, but they still have such a high % of fossil fuels fuelling their grid. You literally can't have it both ways.

 

[bengal tigers]

BTW, do you have rooftop solar? I do, and whilst its not as reliable as other sources of power, its not as bad as you make out, especially if we can utilise community battery storage.

For example, my system even in winter provides around 8-9 kwh for my 12-13 kwh requirement. Its a bit short but my system is small at 5 kwh. The average system going onto roofs now I believe is something like 8.5 kwh which is enough to cater off for the difference even in the winter using battery technology. Its just driving further upkeep.

What is your heating,do you have any gas.
Yes l do have Rooftop solar,just upgraded before xmas ,l have 12 panels l ended up getting a solarhart plantinum which has a 30 year warranty on panels ,inverter 12 years ,l have to upgrade our back up batteries ,because the tesla power wall l had wasn't strong enough in a blackout,it was fine using the fridge and TV,but tripped out using anything else .
So l had to stick to the good old diesel water pump for fire protection .

Tell me what happens when the community batteries have no storage left,when it's a stinking hot night,or very cold for days on end ,,and not everyone is going to be as prudent as you with power ,and then you have all the EV's running around needing power,and trucks who will need probably the equivalent of a few households daily power storage to keep running each day .

Then factor in the costs of doing these sort of community projects ,and maintaining it,and replacing it,,but still no guaranteed constant power source.
Sorry l wouldn't invest in something like that.

 

[bengal tigers]

As you've been repeating ad nasuem its a transition. It certainly is. QLD has 17,000 megawatts of power generated for the NEM. 48% of that is coal and 19% is gas BUT if you care to dig a little deeper since the last coal plant was added to the network (it was waste coal planet in 2008) they have added 5,600 megawatts of power (33% of their total) with gas adding 1500 in 2009 and 2010 and since then only new renewables have been added, which have added 4,200 megawatts from solar and wind farms.

Electricity generation | Business Queensland

www.business.qld.gov.au

None of the above includes rooftop solar which you like to ignore for some reason, despite being the cheapest source of adding supply to our network (obviously goes against your beliefs for whatever reason),

For rooftop solar, this link shows that nearly 11% (as of last June) of their electricity capacity was now being produced via rooftop solar.

Queensland’s renewable energy targets

Track Queensland’s progress to 50% renewable energy by 2030.

www.epw.qld.gov.au

You say its a transition, and then when states transition you say, but they still have such a high % of fossil fuels fuelling their grid. You literally can't have it both ways.

They still need fossil fuels to give Qld a constant source of power ,so why do you keep screaming about rooftop solar ,we can't have a 24hr constant power source from the current renewables

 

[Greenie]

Australia should stick with coal and gas and develop a nuclear plan for the future. We could even pioneer nuclear fusion energy which has minimal radioactive waste and can be stopped and started at will.

The money we are pouring down the drain for these wind and solar generators, the impediments to industry, and the incompetent dolts we pay to govern us, could have paid for 10 years of nuclear development and should 'rattle' every Australian.

Sure I'm not the first to say it but the guys who say they want nuclear have been in power for 9 of the last 11 years and did SFA about nuclear then.

They did exactly the same thing the last time they were in opposition.

They know they can't get it up and running. Too gutless to even try to take it to an election.

 

[Willo]

Some information re SMR’s. I know some won’t be bothered to look at it, but other people might find it educational.
Not here to argue the pro’s and con’s just providing some links for those who would like to know a little more.
There are some figures as to costs, build times. Some differences but at least there is a guide

There are 440 nuclear power plants in the world today. ( There seems to be different numbers 414-436but I use this source)

Nuclear Power Today | Nuclear Energy - World Nuclear Association

Nuclear energy provides about 30% of the world's low carbon electricity. There are about 450 commercial nuclear power reactors operable in 30 countries.

world-nuclear.org

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/westinghouse-unveils-small-modular-nuclear-reactor-2023-05-04/

Modular nuclear reactors, the next big thing

Modular nuclear reactors are believed to play a central role in the energy transition when the world moves away from fossil fuels for its power supply. When can they be put in operation?

group.vattenfall.com

Interest in small nuclear power is rising. Here's why | GreenBiz

Nuclear reactors are getting smaller, cheaper and easier to make. That’s inspiring more companies large and small to angle for a piece of the market.

www.greenbiz.com

The countries building miniature nuclear reactors

Small-scale nuclear reactors are starting to be developed around the world. Proponents say they are a safer and cheaper form of nuclear power. But will they keep up with renewables?

www.bbc.com

Westinghouse announces a new small nuclear reactor — a notable step in the industry's efforts to remake itself

Westinghouse announced on Thursday it is launching a small nuclear reactor, a miniature version of its flagship AP1000.

www.cnbc.com

 

[TigerMasochist]

BT, can you clarify, do you think climate change is real? do you think humans impact climate change? and do you think humans should do anything to mitigate climate change?

Always has been, always will be. Probably some impact, coz there's a shitload of us. Impossible to mitigate and now we're to locked in to be able to adapt easily we'll eventually leave the world a better place for the cockaroaches and rodents to thrive in.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Ask The LABOR hypocrites who allow supply of coal to china etc to make all these green power machines,while spruiking how great they are with emissions .
China produces something like 30-35 percent of the world emissions ,Australia produces something like 1 percent ,and China are building more coal power stations.
Ask the great climate warrior Bowen who's state Queensland has a high level of fossil fuel for it's power.

You forgot to add India, Indonesia n a few other " developing nations " that are by far overpowering any compromised and restricted greening that the developed nations are crippling their economies with.

Massive *smile* Furphy any Australian prancing around claiming we'll save the planet *smile* when we are selling gigantic amounts of coal, gas, iron ore, uranium, and all those other rare earths n *smile* to the countries that grow and expand on everything we rip out of the ground but are now refusing to use ourselves. So that we *smile* hypocrites can pretend to care.

 

[DavidSSS]

Willo, call us back when one of these small modular reactors actually exists. They tried to build one recently in the USA and eventually gave up.

The irony of the same people who wailed about how renewables were not ready a few years back, are now backing a technology which does not yet exist. Of course, Bengal doubled down on this with fusion. I would love to see fusion work but it has been 20 years away for about 50 years.

As for the notion that we are busy exporting fossil fuels while claiming reduced emissions at home, totally agree. It is the height of hypocrisy to do this and the sooner fossil fuel exports are counted as part of our emissions footprint the better. The whole world needs to get off fossil fuels and that means exporting coal, gas, oil needs to stop.

The idea of community batteries is one of the best ideas around. Power to be more locally based makes a lot of sense.

DS

 

[mrposhman]

They still need fossil fuels to give Qld a constant source of power ,so why do you keep screaming about rooftop solar ,we can't have a 24hr constant power source from the current renewables

OMG, its a freaking transition. I know that. Of course they can't do it right now, but we are nowhere near maximum capacity for things like rooftop solar, far far far from it. There have already been studies into how much rooftop solar would be needed to power homes etc, and we certainly CAN generate enough energy to power all homes, its just whether we can generate the battery storage to be able to ensure that it provides a constant supply. Thats the major challenge, but at the same time we need to be pushing through with generating more rooftop solar. The more rooftop solar, the more it pushes for smaller power stations rather than the massive monstrous ones we have, that can supply smaller areas for any backup power that is required to fulfil any shortfall from renewbles, but these need to be smaller and closer to urban areas in order to keep transmission costs low. Thats the really important and difficult thing to deal with, with any base power load, is ensuring that the base power load can maintain a low enough cost when we have continued through the transition of moving towards more solar on rooftops. Its the biggest no brainer for countries with abundant sunlight like we are blessed with.

 

[mrposhman]

What is your heating,do you have any gas.
Yes l do have Rooftop solar,just upgraded before xmas ,l have 12 panels l ended up getting a solarhart plantinum which has a 30 year warranty on panels ,inverter 12 years ,l have to upgrade our back up batteries ,because the tesla power wall l had wasn't strong enough in a blackout,it was fine using the fridge and TV,but tripped out using anything else .
So l had to stick to the good old diesel water pump for fire protection .

Tell me what happens when the community batteries have no storage left,when it's a stinking hot night,or very cold for days on end ,,and not everyone is going to be as prudent as you with power ,and then you have all the EV's running around needing power,and trucks who will need probably the equivalent of a few households daily power storage to keep running each day .

Then factor in the costs of doing these sort of community projects ,and maintaining it,and replacing it,,but still no guaranteed constant power source.
Sorry l wouldn't invest in something like that.

But you want to invest in largescale nuclear which will cost countless billions to install, onto a grid where transmission lines will continue to increase in cost per kwh as more energy is taken from the grid due to the move to solar. Its just not feasible to cover the cost of large scale transmission across the grid, once we take significant power out of it, which we will through rooftop solar, hence the push towards community batteries.

You are just looking at a cost without reviewing opportunity cost of projects but then you appear to be going into it with a preconceived answer and then rejecting anything that goes against it. The cost of rooftop solar is the cheapest form of power that the government can install.

The point of the community batteries is to have adequate capacity to cover the expected output, its actually not a hard concept.

BTW the only time I've mentioned EV's on this thread is actually more in a negative way. People go on about EV's being the way forward (and they will be) BUT they are a long term solution that requires long term capacity solutions. The sheer fact of replacing all vehicles on this planet seems to be forgotten by most. Something like 1.5bn cars in the globe and around 80m annual capacity for new car production. Only something like 6-7% of that capacity is used to produce EV's. The sheer magnitude of change and the time taken to produce is astounding. I'd hazard a guess that it will take 75-100 years to remove all cars on this planet and replace with EV's. Its crazy to think that greenies push ahead with this scenario. Household and business power change is a far more easily achievable situation to make significant change in the next 20 years, far more than EV's. Not sure why you brought that up with me, because I've barely said anything about EV's on this thread due to the above. Deflection I guess.

I didn't even go into electric trucks which I don't think are even a feasible proposition and I've never said that I thought they would be.

 

[Baloo]

Fred Flintstone drove the only true zero emissions renewable energy car manufactured for the mass market.

 

[TigerMasochist]

As for the notion that we are busy exporting fossil fuels while claiming reduced emissions at home, totally agree. It is the height of hypocrisy to do this and the sooner fossil fuel exports are counted as part of our emissions footprint the better. The whole world needs to get off fossil fuels and that means exporting coal, gas, oil needs to stop.

Never gunna happen.
Channel surfed into a CGTN documentary a few weeks back that was discussing the worlds reliance on oil, not sure how old the show was and missed the start of the show, but it detailed the amount of different products ( OMG ) that were oil based and the quantity utilised per person world wide over their lifetimes. Numbers from old fart memory came out that the average was at around 30,000 kilos of oil per person per lifetime world wide. Said that the top modern westernised economies were running at up to 60,000 kilos per person, while China, still developing was around the 30,000 per person ( all 1.something billion of them ) then obviously lesser for other countries.
This was purely discussing only oil usage not gas or coal, and you need to realise that all the " still developing " countries world wide will all consume massive amounts more oil as they grow n try to catch up with all the fancy *smile* that the privileged part of the world already have.
Modern advantaged world can cut back as much as they like, it's never gunna keep up with the expansion of all those other countries desperately trying to play catch up.