Damien Hardwick [Merged]

[Tigertough1974]

I know you're taking the p!ss, but we have done a sneaky mini-rebuild over the past 2-3 years. Two years ago we had Tuck, Jackson, King, Petterd, Newman, Morris and Aadwards play in the elimination final. Foley, Stephenson, White, McGuane, Knights, Nahas, Arnot, Dea, Lonergan, McDonough and Helbig were also on the list. I'd say we're a lot more talented now, even if plenty of that talent is young.

Absolutely agree Sppok and thats what i am getting at Leysy, we have turned over 40% of our list in last 2 years.

With all the kids and young talent we have i think its going to be very difficult this year and next couple to find the 3 players we need to delist each year, especially as (hopefully) those kids start to show their potential on field..

 

[Carter]

Absolutely agree Sppok and thats what i am getting at Leysy, we have turned over 40% of our list in last 2 years.

With all the kids and young talent we have i think its going to be very difficult this year and next couple to find the 3 players we need to delist each year, especially as (hopefully) those kids start to show their potential on field..

No.

We have turned over the 25-40 positions on our list but we have been primed for the top four for three years.

What we have done extremely well is keep our stars whilst getting rid of the journeymen who clogged the middle tier.

 

[toby64]

So what you are suggesting Toby is that we should start sacking some of our recruiting dept. as they have had 7 drafts under Hardwick to restock our list and haven't done a good job?

I for one believe that our recruiting Dept. have done very well and we do have the players to go deep into Sept.

Not saying the list is *smile*.

Saying it has holes. Holes that have prevented us being a realistic contender. A list with too many players who play well from March to August yet fall away when the heat is really on in September. 3 years in a row isn't a coincidence. Or just bad luck. Or just bad coaching as some would have us believe.

Yes we have drafted good young talent over the past few years, that will hopefully fill those holes. But then every one of the other 17 teams will say exactly the same thing.

Is our young talent better than the rest? It will need to be if we are to win a flag.

Time will tell.

 

[Tigertough1974]

No.

We have turned over the 25-40 positions on our list but we have been primed for the top four for three years.

What we have done extremely well is keep our stars whilst getting rid of the journeymen who clogged the middle tier.

No - Yes - No...hahaha... The world according to Carts :hihi

I do agree with your comment about 25-40 as we now have primarily kids with huge upside, however, as i was pointing out that removes the mature body petterd, thomas etc depth role players and try unknown kids at stages during the season.

I am not making excuses for Dimma, just looking at our list and loving the fact we are in a position as you say that has kept our guns and able to play finals and have so many kids with massive upside, its a reflection of where we are at!

 

[Tigertough1974]

Not saying the list is sh!t.

Saying it has holes. Holes that have prevented us being a realistic contender. A list with too many players who play well from March to August yet fall away when the heat is really on in September. 3 years in a row isn't a coincidence. Or just bad luck. Or just bad coaching as some would have us believe.

Yes we have drafted good young talent over the past few years, that will hopefully fill those holes. But then every one of the other 17 teams will say exactly the same thing.

Is our young talent better than the rest? It will need to be if we are to win a flag.

Time will tell.

Absolutely agree...

Even our best 22, the 15-22 i would consider depth with the likes of an aging Newy, injured foley etc

Our kids who we have drafted last 2 years Need to come on better and quicker than other lists for us to continue to upwards projectory...

 

[Rancey18]

My only concern is whether the guys that make up 25-40 on our list are able to step in at AFL level and play a role if injuries strike. In the past we have had guys probably less talented (e.g. Petterd, Gordon) but who had mature bodies that were able to handle themselves at AFL level.

I echo the sentiments of others though, I'm excited about the young talent at our disposal. I'll certainly enjoy going to watch the VFL team next season.

 

[lamb22]

Our list had been a realistic top 4 chance and therefore a realistic flag chance for the last 3 years.

We were green in 2013 and you can forgive the EF performance. The predominant reason we have not made Top 4 or won finals last 2 years is Hardwick.

What we have now and I too believe Hardwick has been dragged kicking and screaming is X factor talent to support our guns rather than plod role players (although remnants exist)

We should really be in the middle of a dominant period. Not making top 4 this year would be criminal.

 

[The Mole]

I reckon with the loss of Tuck and Jackson we have lost grunt in the midfield and we have been trying to replace that. Also with most drafts you are lucky if you get 1 to 2 decent, long term ( 5 years plus) players. This means we have to continually turnover players to try to unearth the gems, however, we need to keep experience too so we don't drop down the ladder, hence the couple of mature players who can role-play until the kids mature. Smart drafting in my opinion. I know Hartley ensures that all players added to the list are better than the players they replace - i.e. continuous improvement. I'm sure the ratios are something like for every 10 players added to the list, 2 are keepers. If this is the case, to replace our best 22 it we would have to draft 220 players, so we need to turnover plenty and regularly.

 

[yandb]

I reckon with the loss of Tuck and Jackson we have lost grunt in the midfield and we have been trying to replace that. Also with most drafts you are lucky if you get 1 to 2 decent, long term ( 5 years plus) players. This means we have to continually turnover players to try to unearth the gems, however, we need to keep experience too so we don't drop down the ladder, hence the couple of mature players who can role-play until the kids mature. Smart drafting in my opinion. I know Hartley ensures that all players added to the list are better than the players they replace - i.e. continuous improvement. I'm sure the ratios are something like for every 10 players added to the list, 2 are keepers. If this is the case, to replace our best 22 it we would have to draft 220 players, so we need to turnover plenty and regularly.

I don't know where you found the 2 in 10 stat because if that was the case then we would only have about 1.5 keepers per draft.

 

[The Mole]

I don't know where you found the 2 in 10 stat because if that was the case then we would only have about 1.5 keepers per draft.

From 2004 to 2013 draft we had 92 selections and we have 21 left on the list who form the core of our team so its a bit better than 2 in 10. I haven't included 2014 and 2015 drafts because there has basically been no judgement on these players yet and most are on the mandatory 2 year contract still.

 

[waiting]

Since Damien took over from Wallace do any of our stats PRE 'gurus' know how many from that era remain on our list.

I can only think of possibly 3.

I doubt there are too many more!

Anyone know? Thanks

 

[lamb22]

Since Damien took over from Wallace do any of our stats PRE 'gurus' know how many from that era remain on our list.

I can only think of possibly 3.

I doubt there are too many more!

Anyone know? Thanks

Just the hacks, Lids, Jack, Edwards, Cotchin, Rance, Vickery and of course Martin was targetted befor he got here.

Plus he had Newman and Foley in his first 6 years.

 

[lamb22]

Can anyone name one 'star' that has come in to the club since Hardwick got here. Martin doesn't count as he was targetted pre Dimma.

Really answers the question why we are taking so long to take the next step. Hardwick targets vanilla and drones to support his pre-existing stars.

Thank god this Dimma weakness has been finally identified and acted upon and we are now looking for top shelf talent to help our other top shelf talent. (Crazy I know but silly clubs like Hawks have done it in bringing in Lake and Burgoyne in particular but you can add Gibson and Smith and probably Hill.)

 

[lamb22]

I can only think of Beanie.

;D

 

[lamb22]

I'dd add Miles but that was mostly a recruiting fluke and in the end it took Dimma half a season to realise he had a gem in the twos and even then he was surprised he could play.

 

[The Mole]

Houli, Ellis (both : Vlastuin, Macintosh, Lennon - all fairly handy first 22 players.

 

[The Mole]

Houli, Ellis (both : Vlastuin, Macintosh, Lennon - all fairly handy first 22 players.

Didn't include Griffiths, Grimes, Conca or Batchelor.

 

[lamb22]

You could probably make the case that Miles has saved Dimma's job. No way we make finals in 2014 without Miles coming in with about 10 or 11 games to go.

 

[lamb22]

Houli, Ellis (both : Vlastuin, Macintosh, Lennon - all fairly handy first 22 players.

In turn Houli - vanilla and fumbly, Ellis B - no star, Ellis C possible star but part of the reformation of the last two drafts after Dimma failed so spectacularly in picking the trends in 2014, Flossy - potentiallly, Macintosh no star. Lennon possible star but poorly used and understood by Hardwick.

 

[lamb22]

Didn't include Griffiths, Grimes, Conca or Batchelor.

Barring Grimes (super effective rather than star) there is a very valid reason those players should never be included in any discussion about 'stars".

Surprised Morris Hunt and Thomas didn't make your list.

BTW with a healthy list only Grimes on your list makes by first 22.