Damien Hardwick [Merged]

[The Mole]

Just compare to when Dimma took over. In any case we are not talking stars - we are talking best 22

 

[AngryAnt]

Lamby your argument that Dimma's recruiting had been so poor is surprising given elsewhere you argue that it's only Dimma's coaching that had held us back from being top four and genuine premiership threats.

 

[The Mole]

Lamby your argument that Dimma's recruiting had been so poor is surprising given elsewhere you argue that it's only Dimma's coaching that had held us back from being top four and genuine premiership threats.

Please don't post logic here. This is the internet! :spin :spin
In any case I was only pointing out that to get a decent list we must turnover significant numbers of players every draft with a view to building continuous improvement. We will probably lose some who, in hindsight we should have kept, but the process is the correct one - the numbers don't lie - and we all know Dimma is a numbers man.

 

[lamb22]

Lamby your argument that Dimma's recruiting had been so poor is surprising given elsewhere you argue that it's only Dimma's coaching that had held us back from being top four and genuine premiership threats.

Our top end list is elite as good or better than any other team.

Initially we moneyballed solid support and I was Ok with the principle if not all the picks Grigg Houli Maric Chaplin generally solid gets.

Recruiting again was solid citizens and again I was OK Conca, Flossy, BEllis. However the phase went too long and the recruiting while good in getting hits was focussing too much on stodge rather than cream.

All our stars need is support from the coach and the balance of the team to be competitive against anyone. We've demonstrated that (bar Geelong and Melbourne ;D)

Hardwick has failed to best utlilise our top end talent. In interviews he often blames them and comes up with excuses for the support cast (Morris being a spectacular case in point)

So ww went for solid citizens rather than your speculative types Walters, Hills and Fyfes or the less speculative types in Heppell and Parker.

The silk that we brought in has mostly stagnated at reserves level Mcbean, Lennon, Lloyd. Madonna. What their plan is with our defensive talls Elton and Astbury is anyone's guess.

There has been a marked change in draft priorities in 2014 and 2015 and it is most welcome albeit we still bring in the drones in A Moore, Townsend and Hunt.

However we have discovered that some players have pace and Dimma's moratorium on indigenous players has obviously been revoked.

The next step appears simple yet for the last three years Dimma is reluctant to take it. Use the creative talent you have more rather than be mired in the lock down game all the time.

Make your top end talent more effective by giving oppositions more to worry about. Mcbean will make Jack more dangerous because he'll likely end up with more space and less opponents. Corey Ellis will ease the burden on our top end mids. Lennon and Lloyd's efficiency is gold which helps build scoreboard pressure. Hopefully Yarran Rioli and Menadue stretch teams for pace. Opposition coaches may need to work harder when these players are utilised better.

No coaches worry much about the damage Hunt, Morris, Batchelor, Thomas, Grigg, Houli Griffiths Conca or A Moore or Townsend will cause.

Sure some of the above players will have a valuable role to play but it is about calibration. Richmond's list has for the last three years been a prospective top 4 list but it's been a top 4 list based on stars who came to the club pre Hardwick.

The predominant reason we missed top 4 and we were whiskers away twice was Hardwick getting the personnel balance wrong, not by an eternity but usually a couple two many drones and a couple too few attacking threats and by getting the game plan horribly wrong at the wrong time ie first 13 games in 2014 and first 6 games in 2015.

Our list if even better this year. Much better balanced even though the sllk factor is quite young. We've cast a wider net for X factor Corey Ellis, Menadue, Butler, Short, Mckenzie, Yarran, Rioli, Markov, Callum Moore and Chol and some ready made depth players in Marcon and Broad.

I'm excited Antman. All we need is for Hardwick not to sabotage himself and the team like he did in last years EF, and listen to the better and bolder advice he is getting rather than keep returning to his vanilla security blanket.

Dimma understands the Strong part in our motto. He just needs to master the Bold bit.

 

[FitenFitenWin]

Our top end list is elite as good or better than any other team.

Initially we moneyballed solid support and I was Ok with the principle if not all the picks Grigg Houli Maric Chaplin generally solid gets.

Recruiting again was solid citizens and again I was OK Conca, Flossy, BEllis. However the phase went too long and the recruiting while good in getting hits was focussing too much on stodge rather than cream.

All our stars need is support from the coach and the balance of the team to be competitive against anyone. We've demonstrated that (bar Geelong and Melbourne ;D)

Hardwick has failed to best utlilise our top end talent. In interviews he often blames them and comes up with excuses for the support cast (Morris being a spectacular case in point)

So ww went for solid citizens rather than your speculative types Walters, Hills and Fyfes or the less speculative types in Heppell and Parker.

The silk that we brought in has mostly stagnated at reserves level Mcbean, Lennon, Lloyd. Madonna. What their plan is with our defensive talls Elton and Astbury is anyone's guess.

There has been a marked change in draft priorities in 2014 and 2015 and it is most welcome albeit we still bring in the drones in A Moore, Townsend and Hunt.

However we have discovered that some players have pace and Dimma's moratorium on indigenous players has obviously been revoked.

The next step appears simple yet for the last three years Dimma is reluctant to take it. Use the creative talent you have more rather than be mired in the lock down game all the time.

Make your top end talent more effective by giving oppositions more to worry about. Mcbean will make Jack more dangerous because he'll likely end up with more space and less opponents. Corey Ellis will ease the burden on our top end mids. Lennon and Lloyd's efficiency is gold which helps build scoreboard pressure. Hopefully Yarran Rioli and Menadue stretch teams for pace. Opposition coaches may need to work harder when these players are utilised better.

No coaches worry much about the damage Hunt, Morris, Batchelor, Thomas, Grigg, Houli Griffiths Conca or A Moore or Townsend will cause.

Sure some of the above players will have a valuable role to play but it is about calibration. Richmond's list has for the last three years been a prospective top 4 list but it's been a top 4 list based on stars who came to the club pre Hardwick.

The predominant reason we missed top 4 and we were whiskers away twice was Hardwick getting the personnel balance wrong, not by an eternity but usually a couple two many drones and a couple too few attacking threats and by getting the game plan horribly wrong at the wrong time ie first 13 games in 2014 and first 6 games in 2015.

Our list if even better this year. Much better balanced even though the sllk factor is quite young. We've cast a wider net for X factor Corey Ellis, Menadue, Butler, Short, Mckenzie, Yarran, Rioli, Markov, Callum Moore and Chol and some ready made depth players in Marcon and Broad.

I'm excited Antman. All we need is for Hardwick not to sabotage himself and the team like he did in last years EF, and listen to the better and bolder advice he is getting rather than keep returning to his vanilla security blanket.

Dimma understands the Strong part in our motto. He just needs to master the Bold bit.

Inspired stuff! The worry for me, as you point out is whether he can work the sizzle at his disposal into his sauce recipe. I think Dimma's the Parma king - he might even try veal at different times. But it's still Parma.

 

[Rancey18]

Just the hacks, Lids, Jack, Edwards, Cotchin, Rance, Vickery and of course Martin was targetted befor he got here.

Plus he had Newman and Foley in his first 6 years.

Very good :hihi

 

[lamb22]

Inspired stuff! The worry for me, as you point out is whether he can work the sizzle at his disposal into his sauce recipe. I think Dimma's the Parma king - he might even try veal at different times. But it's still Parma.

And that's why he is so popular. Who doesn't like a parma?

I like your veal analogy. He sometimes knows he needs to make changes but his world view is a bit limited.

But even the veal makes him nervous. He gets it off the specials list as soon as it starts being successful.

Maybe Dimma is thinking Parmas of the world this season with the recruiting of Markov, Marcon and Chol.

 

[Tigertough1974]

I wasn't aware Dimma was the recruiting head also...

Also Pre Dimma the recruiters had much higher picks so more likely to get a star, also we have just finally finished years of compromised drafts..

These Dimma attacks are ridiculous and not balanced at all!

 

[AngryAnt]

Yep good post Lamby. Like you I'm pretty excited about this year's potential with the list coming together very well.

 

[Carter]

Our top end list is elite as good or better than any other team.

Initially we moneyballed solid support and I was Ok with the principle if not all the picks Grigg Houli Maric Chaplin generally solid gets.

Recruiting again was solid citizens and again I was OK Conca, Flossy, BEllis. However the phase went too long and the recruiting while good in getting hits was focussing too much on stodge rather than cream.

All our stars need is support from the coach and the balance of the team to be competitive against anyone. We've demonstrated that (bar Geelong and Melbourne ;D)

Hardwick has failed to best utlilise our top end talent. In interviews he often blames them and comes up with excuses for the support cast (Morris being a spectacular case in point)

So ww went for solid citizens rather than your speculative types Walters, Hills and Fyfes or the less speculative types in Heppell and Parker.

The silk that we brought in has mostly stagnated at reserves level Mcbean, Lennon, Lloyd. Madonna. What their plan is with our defensive talls Elton and Astbury is anyone's guess.

There has been a marked change in draft priorities in 2014 and 2015 and it is most welcome albeit we still bring in the drones in A Moore, Townsend and Hunt.

However we have discovered that some players have pace and Dimma's moratorium on indigenous players has obviously been revoked.

The next step appears simple yet for the last three years Dimma is reluctant to take it. Use the creative talent you have more rather than be mired in the lock down game all the time.

Make your top end talent more effective by giving oppositions more to worry about. Mcbean will make Jack more dangerous because he'll likely end up with more space and less opponents. Corey Ellis will ease the burden on our top end mids. Lennon and Lloyd's efficiency is gold which helps build scoreboard pressure. Hopefully Yarran Rioli and Menadue stretch teams for pace. Opposition coaches may need to work harder when these players are utilised better.

No coaches worry much about the damage Hunt, Morris, Batchelor, Thomas, Grigg, Houli Griffiths Conca or A Moore or Townsend will cause.

Sure some of the above players will have a valuable role to play but it is about calibration. Richmond's list has for the last three years been a prospective top 4 list but it's been a top 4 list based on stars who came to the club pre Hardwick.

The predominant reason we missed top 4 and we were whiskers away twice was Hardwick getting the personnel balance wrong, not by an eternity but usually a couple two many drones and a couple too few attacking threats and by getting the game plan horribly wrong at the wrong time ie first 13 games in 2014 and first 6 games in 2015.

Our list if even better this year. Much better balanced even though the sllk factor is quite young. We've cast a wider net for X factor Corey Ellis, Menadue, Butler, Short, Mckenzie, Yarran, Rioli, Markov, Callum Moore and Chol and some ready made depth players in Marcon and Broad.

I'm excited Antman. All we need is for Hardwick not to sabotage himself and the team like he did in last years EF, and listen to the better and bolder advice he is getting rather than keep returning to his vanilla security blanket.

Dimma understands the Strong part in our motto. He just needs to master the Bold bit.

good posting Lamby.

we just need handbrake to release the handbrake more often.

 

[lamb22]

I wasn't aware Dimma was the recruiting head also...

Also Pre Dimma the recruiters had much higher picks so more likely to get a star, also we have just finally finished years of compromised drafts..

These Dimma attacks are ridiculous and not balanced at all!

If you read my post and similar ones, I don't knock our recruiting at all.

My knock is the type of player they look for was too skewed to what Hardwick wanted and its only been addressed these last two drafts.

Another knock is that Hardwick has got talent but either uses it poorly or not all.

Finally nearly every other serious club has brought in or drafted 'stars' in these last 6 years.

Draft picks have little to do with it. Sydney picked up Parker, Buddy and Tippet. Hawks Lake Hill Smith and Burgoyne. Freo Walters and Fyfe. North some fading stars or near stars in Dal Santo, Higgins Waite (and Nahas ;D) Port Wingard and Vines. West Coast Darling and Mcgovern

We haven't picked up stars (bar possibly the Flukey Miles pick) because of Hardwick's fascination with percentages and drones.

We now have about 10 X factor players rolling around with zero - 20 games. We're talking Beanie, Lennon, Corey, Menadue, Mckenzie, Castagna and this years crop. If 1 or 2 only hit the jackpot we're laughing.

My criticism of Hardwick is considered and balanced with the good he has done. Importantly I made most of my points over a fair chunk of time and been consistent in my arguments and Hardwick keeps living up to these crticisms by continually moving away from things that work because he is uncomfortable with them.

Last year clear example. We were rubbish first 6 rounds. I and other called out Hardwick on personnel and game plan. Round 7 is a revelation. He basically knee jerks and brings in Ellis, Beanie, menadue and Elton - Great. we play the best footy of teh year and beat Pies after Hardwick gives them a four goal start by playing Rance as a mid while Clokey enjoys an early Xmas.

What happen after the game. "We dont like that style of game" : What the?

What happens the next few weeks - Beanie, Menadue, Elton and Ellis (injury) no longer in the side.

Tiges start winning but drop games to WC and Freo becaue they cant kick more than 10 goals a game.

Many point out, including me that such a forward line is not sustainable in finals.

Hardwick reacts (more because Griff gets injured). Lennon and Lloyd get more game time. A second best option as Mcbean was the crying out need but still the forward line now functioned better with real forwards with real forward instincts. Positive move Dimma.

I breathe a sigh of relief because it looks like he gets it. What does he do EF eve. Drops 2 of his 3 natural forwards.

He has a tin ear and he just doesn't get players that make the game look easy. He plain just doesn't trust them.

It looks like there has been a fair bit of arm twisting to go with players like Rioli and Yarran and Menadue and a few more.

My worry is that he wins few games, gets over-confident again and brings in his drones and drone game plan.

I am happy for you to support Hardwick but you never really argue my points and I understand why. They are pretty unarguable.

2014 rds 1 -13 were horrible and clearly documented Hardwick driven.

2015 rds 1 -6 Horrible and again Hardwick driven - totally new game plan rd 7 and beyond.

How *smile* hard is it to leave well enough alone when the team is actually playing well and to change quickly when things are not going so well.

On both counts Hardwick fails.

 

[Brodders17]

Draft picks have little to do with it. Sydney picked up Parker, Buddy and Tippet. Hawks Lake Hill Smith and Burgoyne. Freo Walters and Fyfe. North some fading stars or near stars in Dal Santo, Higgins Waite (and Nahas ;D) Port Wingard and Vines. West Coast Darling and Mcgovern

We haven't picked up stars (bar possibly the Flukey Miles pick) because of Hardwick's fascination with percentages and drones.

The Hawks traded for Burgoyne in 09 (for 2 1st round picks). Smith and Hill are no better than Ellis (or Miles).
Freo drafted Walters in 08. Fyfe 09.
The Swans have used a large portion of their salary on 2 players, debatable if it has been a good move. And is Tippett a star?
Wingard was pick 6, Wines pick 7. Both higher pick than Hardwick has had access to. but still good picks.
North have done well out of their ageing FAs.
And the Weagles 2 have gone well.

 

[lamb22]

The Hawks traded for Burgoyne in 09 (for 2 1st round picks). Smith and Hill are no better than Ellis (or Miles).
Freo drafted Walters in 08. Fyfe 09.
The Swans have used a large portion of their salary on 2 players, debatable if it has been a good move. And is Tippett a star?
Wingard was pick 6, Wines pick 7. Both higher pick than Hardwick has had access to. but still good picks.
North have done well out of their ageing FAs.
And the Weagles 2 have gone well.

Brandon Ellis will be under pressure to hold his spot this year. Hill infinitely better as he can deliver in space. Ellis struggles to get any seperation.

Good research. Lake and Parker are good gets eh!

Cats done OK with Dangerfield. Pies Treloar. Melbourne Hogan. Adelaide Betts. GWS - Griffin. Bulldogs Stringer, Brisbane - Beams Gold Coast Ablett

 

[The Mole]

Brandon Ellis will be under pressure to hold his spot this year. Hill infinitely better as he can deliver in space. Ellis struggles to get any seperation.

Good research. Lake and Parker are good gets eh!

Cats done OK with Dangerfield. Pies Treloar. Melbourne Hogan. Adelaide Betts. GWS - Griffin. Bulldogs Stringer, Brisbane - Beams Gold Coast Ablett

Agree it is now time to pinch an A grader - we tried with Treloar but didn't work. I don't like North's approach because if they don't win the big one this year or next they are stiffed for quite a few years after because they will not be able to regenerate their list quickly enough. It remains to be seen if Geelong will rise or fall in 2016 - my bet is that they will fall. I for one think that the RFC has done it the right way, a much more sustainable way. Hope we stick the course.

 

[keepa lids onit]

Lamby your two posts ( the long ones) above the last one are exactly spot on mate!!!!!
Brought in a bit too many solid citizens and older proven dud mature rookies instead of getting some point of differences into the side. Last 2 years we have brought these types in and now is the time this Should pay off. But he has to adjust his game plan and let these players play their natural game and exert their influences.
Also agree Lennon and Lloyd added much more natural goal kicking and danger to our game via scoreboard pressure.
2016 is make or break for him. Top 4 or it's a fail for me with the squad and variety he has at his disposal!!

 

[Tigers of Old]

Lamb you are slaying it.

 

[Tigertough1974]

If you read my post and similar ones, I don't knock our recruiting at all.

My knock is the type of player they look for was too skewed to what Hardwick wanted and its only been addressed these last two drafts.

Another knock is that Hardwick has got talent but either uses it poorly or not all.

Finally nearly every other serious club has brought in or drafted 'stars' in these last 6 years.

Draft picks have little to do with it. Sydney picked up Parker, Buddy and Tippet. Hawks Lake Hill Smith and Burgoyne. Freo Walters and Fyfe. North some fading stars or near stars in Dal Santo, Higgins Waite (and Nahas ;D) Port Wingard and Vines. West Coast Darling and Mcgovern

We haven't picked up stars (bar possibly the Flukey Miles pick) because of Hardwick's fascination with percentages and drones.

We now have about 10 X factor players rolling around with zero - 20 games. We're talking Beanie, Lennon, Corey, Menadue, Mckenzie, Castagna and this years crop. If 1 or 2 only hit the jackpot we're laughing.

My criticism of Hardwick is considered and balanced with the good he has done. Importantly I made most of my points over a fair chunk of time and been consistent in my arguments and Hardwick keeps living up to these crticisms by continually moving away from things that work because he is uncomfortable with them.

Last year clear example. We were rubbish first 6 rounds. I and other called out Hardwick on personnel and game plan. Round 7 is a revelation. He basically knee jerks and brings in Ellis, Beanie, menadue and Elton - Great. we play the best footy of teh year and beat Pies after Hardwick gives them a four goal start by playing Rance as a mid while Clokey enjoys an early Xmas.

What happen after the game. "We dont like that style of game" : What the?

What happens the next few weeks - Beanie, Menadue, Elton and Ellis (injury) no longer in the side.

Tiges start winning but drop games to WC and Freo becaue they cant kick more than 10 goals a game.

Many point out, including me that such a forward line is not sustainable in finals.

Hardwick reacts (more because Griff gets injured). Lennon and Lloyd get more game time. A second best option as Mcbean was the crying out need but still the forward line now functioned better with real forwards with real forward instincts. Positive move Dimma.

I breathe a sigh of relief because it looks like he gets it. What does he do EF eve. Drops 2 of his 3 natural forwards.

He has a tin ear and he just doesn't get players that make the game look easy. He plain just doesn't trust them.

It looks like there has been a fair bit of arm twisting to go with players like Rioli and Yarran and Menadue and a few more.

My worry is that he wins few games, gets over-confident again and brings in his drones and drone game plan.

I am happy for you to support Hardwick but you never really argue my points and I understand why. They are pretty unarguable.

2014 rds 1 -13 were horrible and clearly documented Hardwick driven.

2015 rds 1 -6 Horrible and again Hardwick driven - totally new game plan rd 7 and beyond.

How *smile* hard is it to leave well enough alone when the team is actually playing well and to change quickly when things are not going so well.

On both counts Hardwick fails.

A lot of good points there Lamby.

Generally i don't argue as i can't be bothered (you mentioned i didn't want to argue - your quite correct), i certainly can't be bothered writing an essay as above.

I think our recruiting has deliberately gone after solid citizens to build 80-90% of the list, hard working kids with great character (generalizing), we are now in a position list wise to add X factor, menedue, Rioli etc, these kids take time though, i don't expect either to be caving up teams next year! You can argue Beanie and i would like him to have more opportunities also!

I do agree that Dimma is to conservative with selections IMO and got it wrong in the EF.

I don't agree with everything Dimma or RFC do but i don't feel it necessary to come online and slam the club (and employees) i love and support.

I will say lamby i don't think you trash the club as much as some, so that wasn't directed at you so much, you make some good points and its clear how much you love the club :clap I would simply ask that you don't allow tunnel vision, and balance is required as harping on the same issues over and over people tune out..

The club had a plan to build a new list and do it through the draft which was compromised, im sure they hoped for more in 2013-2014 but were somewhat satisfied, i truly believe they expected more in 2015 and were disappointed. The heat is on Dimma and everyone at the club.

 

[yandb]

Your point on our forward line make sense Lamby, the average score kicked by the team wining the GF over the last 10 years is 108 points.

Unless we can score in excess of that the H&A season we will have no hope in the GF.

Our forward line is the missing link of our finals campaign as our defence is fairly solid. More creativity by our forwards and a more adventurous game plan will hopefully fix this.

 

[joegarra]

a 6 man forward line might score 100+ points (sick of seeing Jack battle against 2 opponents)

 

[Leysy Days]

Agree 100%.

If he wants to increase scoring the first thing Damien needs to do is ditch the plus 1 every minute of the match.