Ethics do matter. That's part of the problem. We haven't been ethical in the past, so talented coaches are Richmond-shy.
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Frawley tenure at heart of turmoil
- Thread starter Tigerdog
- Start date
I am really angry with this article. I think the "danny" issue is a smokescreen to hide the more important issues at hand.
If we can't be told the contents of Brendan's letter why give little tidbits like this.
If the truth is told I am positive we'd be discussing far more than Danny's tenure as coach.
It's just not good enough to divert attention like I think has happened in this article and it's not fair on Danny.
If we can't be told the contents of Brendan's letter why give little tidbits like this.
If the truth is told I am positive we'd be discussing far more than Danny's tenure as coach.
It's just not good enough to divert attention like I think has happened in this article and it's not fair on Danny.
We are all making a lot of fuss over stuff that we know very little about. Patrick SMITH has thrown in the chook feed, and we are all cackling.
What we do know is-
a) that blokes have resigned.
b) we don't know the real reason(s) for the resignations.
The members (shareholders) have a right to know what is going on, and not through the media. A forum or mail out is needed, explaining the "real" situation. A forum is preferrred where members can ask questions, and not just hear the answers, but see facial expressions and vocal tones during the responses.
Maybe more resignations is the only way this will be resolved now, if the Constitution allows of an EGM.
What we do know is-
a) that blokes have resigned.
b) we don't know the real reason(s) for the resignations.
The members (shareholders) have a right to know what is going on, and not through the media. A forum or mail out is needed, explaining the "real" situation. A forum is preferrred where members can ask questions, and not just hear the answers, but see facial expressions and vocal tones during the responses.
Maybe more resignations is the only way this will be resolved now, if the Constitution allows of an EGM.
rosy3 said:I am really angry with this article. I think the "danny" issue is a smokescreen to hide the more important issues at hand.
If we can't be told the contents of Brendan's letter why give little tidbits like this.
If the truth is told I am positive we'd be discussing far more than Danny's tenure as coach.
It's just not good enough to divert attention like I think has happened in this article and it's not fair on Danny.
I'm with you on this one, Rosy.
Far from "getting the facts straight" as someone said earlier, I think Patrick Smith has shown in the past that he is willing to put just about any kind of rumour or innuendo to print and put his own spin on everything just in an effort to sell papers and see other commentators discussing his articles.
I think he has spun this situation to fit in with his own opinions of Danny Frawley and RFC (in much the same way as some of the posters on PRE). There is no reliable evidence to suggest that the resignations and potential resignations have anything to do with Frawley's tenure in any way. Schwab himself has come out and said that to reduce the issues involved to dissatisfaction with Frawley is way too simplistic.
On the appointment of Emmett Dunne, it is interesting to note that the Age this morning said that he was likely to knock back a position on the board to concentrate on his role witht the Victoria Police. But whether Dunne joins the board or not, I wouldn't be taking Patrick Smith's article as gospel.
Irrespective of whether Smith’s article is on the money or not re: these resignations, in respect of the sensitivities that some people have raised in us possibly trying to source a new coach while Frawley is still coaching us this year, again, I don't believe it's all that hard........
Let’s hypothesise. Say we are going terribly and by the half way mark of the season it is abundantly clear to all (including Frawley himself) that Frawley can not and will not be entertained as the coach for 2005 and people are calling for his head. We want the best coach possible, which means we have to start looking NOW, but we don’t want to be seen by any potential coaches as being “unethical” - as I’ve seen it described in previous posts.
The board goes to Frawley and says “Look. We know and you know that we can’t continue down this path. There are 2 choices: 1) We do continue to support you for the remainder of the year as coach, but you work in with us in finding a replacement coach for the following year i.e. you advise to any prospective coach that we may canvass that you are aware of the process that is going on and that you are comfortable with us in doing so etc. etc. 2) If you don’t want to work in with us, then we’ll have no choice but to terminate your services now and appoint an interim coach who will work in with us in finding a replacement. This will end up being a messy situation for the both of us i.e. there’s no grace in it for either party, an ugly departure ensues and at the end of the day both our future’s are unnecessarily jeopardised.”
Basically, option 1 becomes the only choice.
I’m pretty sure this is the way Collingwood handled Tony Shaw’s exit. Both parties also went to the effort of saying that “we’ve resigned ourselves to the fact that we have some serious re-building to do, the finals are out of the question and as such we are committed to playing young kids for the remainder of the season.” Again, this gives the coach some face and controls the expectations of the supporters as well.
Who knows. Maybe we will have a great season and all this thinking is unnecessary. But if we do reach a situation where the season implodes then this is the approach that I believe we should consider in tackling the issue of replacing the coach for the following season while the current season is still in progress.
Let’s hypothesise. Say we are going terribly and by the half way mark of the season it is abundantly clear to all (including Frawley himself) that Frawley can not and will not be entertained as the coach for 2005 and people are calling for his head. We want the best coach possible, which means we have to start looking NOW, but we don’t want to be seen by any potential coaches as being “unethical” - as I’ve seen it described in previous posts.
The board goes to Frawley and says “Look. We know and you know that we can’t continue down this path. There are 2 choices: 1) We do continue to support you for the remainder of the year as coach, but you work in with us in finding a replacement coach for the following year i.e. you advise to any prospective coach that we may canvass that you are aware of the process that is going on and that you are comfortable with us in doing so etc. etc. 2) If you don’t want to work in with us, then we’ll have no choice but to terminate your services now and appoint an interim coach who will work in with us in finding a replacement. This will end up being a messy situation for the both of us i.e. there’s no grace in it for either party, an ugly departure ensues and at the end of the day both our future’s are unnecessarily jeopardised.”
Basically, option 1 becomes the only choice.
I’m pretty sure this is the way Collingwood handled Tony Shaw’s exit. Both parties also went to the effort of saying that “we’ve resigned ourselves to the fact that we have some serious re-building to do, the finals are out of the question and as such we are committed to playing young kids for the remainder of the season.” Again, this gives the coach some face and controls the expectations of the supporters as well.
Who knows. Maybe we will have a great season and all this thinking is unnecessary. But if we do reach a situation where the season implodes then this is the approach that I believe we should consider in tackling the issue of replacing the coach for the following season while the current season is still in progress.
Tigerdog said:
In a corporation’s Articles (here, read: club) it is usually laid-out what constitutes an Extraordinary General Meeting and how it (EGM) comes about or is brought into being.
I have been involved in establishing a couple of “Friends of . . .” groups and a heritage committee and there is usually provision in such constitutions for dealing with an unstable board/committee – often around the section that deals with how many members form a quorum.
David Clayton (in PRE’s board concerning AGMs) listed his website whereon he had copied, as I understand, the current Articles of RFC. We know from what he posted on our thread dealing with Welsh’s resignation that (section) 8 deals with replacing board resignations and [8.1] the board (read president) has the power to fill those vacant positions and that those replacements stand until that position would have normally come up for re-election (up to 3 years!).
But having a turnover of three or possibly four board members at the one time could constitute a complete spill, i.e. all positions declared vacant.
I have an appointment to keep this afternoon so don’t have time to peruse the RFC constitution but it shouldn’t be too hard to find if someone wants to go delving. I don’t think it would be hidden behind too much goobledygook.
But, then, we are talking Richmond . . .
I don't beleive it to be unethical. The club has the responsibility to its members to sign the best availble person to replace Frawley, and in order to get a head start on its rivals the club needs to start the search as soon as possible. Frawleys contract will be honoured and the best person will replace him. This is where we have fallen down for the past 2 decades.......we haven't played our cards right when finding a coach.
Dean3 said:
What if I win Powerball on Thursday? The odds are better ???
I have no idea whether or not the resignations are linked to Dudley or not. There's so much *smile* that comes out of that club even they don't know what's going on.
What I do know is that Collingwood publicly advised during the 1999 season that Tony Shaw would not be re-appointed coach for the 2000 season. This is exactly what should happen at Richmond this year as soon as it's obvious that we will have another failed season. IMO that is right now but reality dictates that we will know this somewhere between round 10 and 15. This will give us at least a few months to source the best replacement for Splud.
The last thing we need is a repeat of 1999 where we sacked Goosen on the eve of the final game and had to appoint Potato who was basically last cab of the rank.
"We are facing what I think is going to be a very difficult year."
That quote is from Casey in today's H-Sun. This from the bloke who only a month or two ago was announcing that the Club will make a profit and make the finals this year!!!
He also says that he is 'reviewing the Board'. How convenient after two directors have walked!
I suggest it's about time we - the members - reviewed Casey.
That quote is from Casey in today's H-Sun. This from the bloke who only a month or two ago was announcing that the Club will make a profit and make the finals this year!!!
He also says that he is 'reviewing the Board'. How convenient after two directors have walked!
I suggest it's about time we - the members - reviewed Casey.
Casey: Strays plague Tigers
23 March 2004 Herald Sun
Damian Barrett
RICHMOND president Clinton Casey is demanding a "fierce commitment" from his co-directors as another board member is understood to be considering his future at Punt Rd.
Casey's call comes after last week's shock resignations of board members Brendan Schwab and Peter Welsh.
And yesterday Michael Daddo, a member of the Tigers' marketing committee, would neither confirm nor deny speculation that he would also depart.
"I have no comment to make," Daddo told the Herald Sun last night.
Daddo is scheduled to meet Casey on Thursday as part of the Tiger boss's annual review of directors.
"I am going to be looking for a huge commitment," Casey said of the demands he will place on directors.
Casey said he was not aware of the doubts on Daddo.
"We have regular reviews and he has never expressed that," Casey said.
"I am in the middle of board reviews, I am yet to meet with Michael but will be doing that this week, and what I am looking for is a fierce commitment of all board members on behalf of Richmond Footy Club," Casey said.
"We are facing what I think is going to be a very difficult year.
"I am expecting Michael to be able to give us a huge commitment, like he has in the past.
"There is no doubt that people's commitments change and in the event they can't give us that commitment, then we would be looking to try to make sure we get someone that can, but Michael hasn't expressed that to me."
Casey said he reviewed the board annually.
"I do this (review) every year, and that is every section of the club," he said.
"We want to know who has got the time to do what; what areas you are going to look after, etc.
"I am right in the middle of that."
Casey said he would soon approach possible replacements for the positions vacated by Schwab and Welsh.
"I have some people who I think would be good candidates, but I don't know how much time they have got or whether they are inclined to want to help," he said.
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,9045533%255E20322,00.html
23 March 2004 Herald Sun
Damian Barrett
RICHMOND president Clinton Casey is demanding a "fierce commitment" from his co-directors as another board member is understood to be considering his future at Punt Rd.
Casey's call comes after last week's shock resignations of board members Brendan Schwab and Peter Welsh.
And yesterday Michael Daddo, a member of the Tigers' marketing committee, would neither confirm nor deny speculation that he would also depart.
"I have no comment to make," Daddo told the Herald Sun last night.
Daddo is scheduled to meet Casey on Thursday as part of the Tiger boss's annual review of directors.
"I am going to be looking for a huge commitment," Casey said of the demands he will place on directors.
Casey said he was not aware of the doubts on Daddo.
"We have regular reviews and he has never expressed that," Casey said.
"I am in the middle of board reviews, I am yet to meet with Michael but will be doing that this week, and what I am looking for is a fierce commitment of all board members on behalf of Richmond Footy Club," Casey said.
"We are facing what I think is going to be a very difficult year.
"I am expecting Michael to be able to give us a huge commitment, like he has in the past.
"There is no doubt that people's commitments change and in the event they can't give us that commitment, then we would be looking to try to make sure we get someone that can, but Michael hasn't expressed that to me."
Casey said he reviewed the board annually.
"I do this (review) every year, and that is every section of the club," he said.
"We want to know who has got the time to do what; what areas you are going to look after, etc.
"I am right in the middle of that."
Casey said he would soon approach possible replacements for the positions vacated by Schwab and Welsh.
"I have some people who I think would be good candidates, but I don't know how much time they have got or whether they are inclined to want to help," he said.
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,9045533%255E20322,00.html
When you read Clinton Casey's interview you can't help but notice everything is "I" this "i" that!!
What about "we" this and "we" that.
Maybe that's the cruxt of the problem (don't look it up, i made that word up myself!)!!
Maybe Clinton Casey THINKS he IS the board!!
What about "we" this and "we" that.
Maybe that's the cruxt of the problem (don't look it up, i made that word up myself!)!!
Maybe Clinton Casey THINKS he IS the board!!
Tigerdog said:
Matter of opinion there TD.
What about where players at Carlton don’t like Pagan because of his coaching style and they decide to leave. I’d say go. You don’t need that type within a Club.
Of course none of us know the real circumstances behind these resignations, otherwise we might all have a different opinion on things.
Young Tiger said:
This is what intrigues me and I guess everyone else. What are the obligations and responsibilities that are seemingly so onerous all of a sudden?
Walster said:
Unless you’re in the know then we’re just fumbling in the dark here. But what if Casey is doing just that? And what if that’s what this Club needs – someone to give it some direction and to get people behind him to do that?
That approach is going to involve making unrealistic demands of people and being unpopular. What those demands are, I don’t know, but on the surface of it, if we want to turn our Club around then we need to get beyond having a Board that’s merely a “boys’ Club” and turn it into one that’s proactive and gets out there and moves us forward.
I don’t have a problem with that. Maybe if I knew more I might, but right now, I don’t.
Should I duck?
Were are the troops that are willing to put their hands up to help the RFC get back to were they belong. For too long have the RFC faithfull been content with bashing the club. If you are unhappy then vote with your feet.
I was born yellow and black and would be no other. I am the laughing stock at work but stand tall and proud. Yet I have HOPE. Hope is what buys my memberships each year, HOPE is what makes me have a seat right on the fence and HOPE is what makes me come back game after game.
I think it s about time that the likes of Clinton Casey, Ian Campbell and Greg Miller stood up for the values that are the RFC. For too long has RFC been the laughing stock. The constant coach rumours, the players attitudes. It is not something that is going to be fixed overnight but atleast we can start somewere.
Lets get the right attitude. Greg Miller has started this with the turnover last year (don't expect this to be the last). Clinton Casey believes in the club and its values. If the board who have been to happy in the past to get rid of coaches, don't agree with the hard path forward, then let them leave. Let us have a set of directors that are happy with the way Clinton is taking the club.
If you all want to be the continous laughing stock of the world then continue to follow the easy path and maybe we will never see another "Premiership".
We need to take a stand !!!
I was born yellow and black and would be no other. I am the laughing stock at work but stand tall and proud. Yet I have HOPE. Hope is what buys my memberships each year, HOPE is what makes me have a seat right on the fence and HOPE is what makes me come back game after game.
I think it s about time that the likes of Clinton Casey, Ian Campbell and Greg Miller stood up for the values that are the RFC. For too long has RFC been the laughing stock. The constant coach rumours, the players attitudes. It is not something that is going to be fixed overnight but atleast we can start somewere.
Lets get the right attitude. Greg Miller has started this with the turnover last year (don't expect this to be the last). Clinton Casey believes in the club and its values. If the board who have been to happy in the past to get rid of coaches, don't agree with the hard path forward, then let them leave. Let us have a set of directors that are happy with the way Clinton is taking the club.
If you all want to be the continous laughing stock of the world then continue to follow the easy path and maybe we will never see another "Premiership".
We need to take a stand !!!
[quote author=MC24
What about where players at Carlton don’t like Pagan because of his coaching style and they decide to leave. I’d say go. You don’t need that type within a Club
MC24
It's interesting that you make mention of Carlton. John Elliott run the club with an iron fist, and the board was made up from his cronies. We all know of the legacy that he left there.
I need to know what's going on at the club, and until i do know, Clinton Casey has a cloud hanging over him over.
CARN THE TIGES!!!!
What about where players at Carlton don’t like Pagan because of his coaching style and they decide to leave. I’d say go. You don’t need that type within a Club
MC24
It's interesting that you make mention of Carlton. John Elliott run the club with an iron fist, and the board was made up from his cronies. We all know of the legacy that he left there.
I need to know what's going on at the club, and until i do know, Clinton Casey has a cloud hanging over him over.
CARN THE TIGES!!!!
I said it would be an interesting year...coach on last chance ..new players...board divided ...well lets hope something postitive comes out of all this ...
On a lighter note ....a Rosy would make a good pres does a great job with PRE and follows the Tigers unlike Casy ....
On a lighter note ....a Rosy would make a good pres does a great job with PRE and follows the Tigers unlike Casy ....
Is it just me or ie this the best thing for footy since the meat pie.
Not a single ball has been kicked in anger in season 2004 and already the papers are full of Tiger news.
Ya gotta love it.
Bring on round 1. Go you good things!
Not a single ball has been kicked in anger in season 2004 and already the papers are full of Tiger news.
Ya gotta love it.
Bring on round 1. Go you good things!
