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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
G20 protests/APEC
- Thread starter Liverpool
- Start date
Re: G20 protests
There are violent protests all over the world.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with being 'Australian' and it's offensive to suggest that as an excuse for violent behavior.
tigersnake said:
There are violent protests all over the world.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with being 'Australian' and it's offensive to suggest that as an excuse for violent behavior.
Re: G20 protests
Afraid ToO is right here Jake the Snake. I think it is a bit silly to suggest violent protesting is the domain of Australians. IN fact, I think as a rule it is more the other way with Aussies largely apathetic about many issues.
Tigers of Old said:
Afraid ToO is right here Jake the Snake. I think it is a bit silly to suggest violent protesting is the domain of Australians. IN fact, I think as a rule it is more the other way with Aussies largely apathetic about many issues.
Re: G20 protests
That is true Tigersnake, we do have violent protests littered throughout our history.
I would also assume most countries have had some sort of violent protests littered throughout their history as well, and therefore we are no different.
To say that taking on the police is as Aussie as meat-pies, is plain wrong.
You are also right in saying that to get noticed, you get angry.
I'm sure the G20 protest would not be 13 pages long on this forum, if they did keep the peace....however, the angry and violent protest did nothing for their cause, or what they are actually "fighting" for.
All it did was strengthen the public's support behind the police, and therefore the protesters 'cause' has been hurt immeasureably.
The 13 pages on this forum is a testament to that.
You talk of bloody moral outrage and demonising of people.
Look, most of us have no problem with people having a different opinion to us, but it is how they expressed their opinion onto the rest is us, that has us demanding justice.
It would be quite interesting to read the response from people like yourself and Gypsy Jazz, if the police did fight back and gave it to the protesters big time.
I think it's pretty poor that anyone can condone unwarranted violence and destruction under the guise of "its the Aussie way to take on the cops", yet the police are labelled as "rabid dogs on a leash", just for protecting themselves.
Sorry Tigersnake, but you're just digging a bigger hole for yourself....
tigersnake said:
That is true Tigersnake, we do have violent protests littered throughout our history.
I would also assume most countries have had some sort of violent protests littered throughout their history as well, and therefore we are no different.
To say that taking on the police is as Aussie as meat-pies, is plain wrong.
You are also right in saying that to get noticed, you get angry.
I'm sure the G20 protest would not be 13 pages long on this forum, if they did keep the peace....however, the angry and violent protest did nothing for their cause, or what they are actually "fighting" for.
All it did was strengthen the public's support behind the police, and therefore the protesters 'cause' has been hurt immeasureably.
The 13 pages on this forum is a testament to that.
You talk of bloody moral outrage and demonising of people.
Look, most of us have no problem with people having a different opinion to us, but it is how they expressed their opinion onto the rest is us, that has us demanding justice.
It would be quite interesting to read the response from people like yourself and Gypsy Jazz, if the police did fight back and gave it to the protesters big time.
I think it's pretty poor that anyone can condone unwarranted violence and destruction under the guise of "its the Aussie way to take on the cops", yet the police are labelled as "rabid dogs on a leash", just for protecting themselves.
Sorry Tigersnake, but you're just digging a bigger hole for yourself....
Re: G20 protests
What 'nonsense' are u talking about. I don't condone the viloence by either side. All I am saying is that those who have done wrong should be brought before the law. If they aren't then we have a serious problem and one that would ultimately lead to mob rule, whichever side you are on.
mb64 said:
What 'nonsense' are u talking about. I don't condone the viloence by either side. All I am saying is that those who have done wrong should be brought before the law. If they aren't then we have a serious problem and one that would ultimately lead to mob rule, whichever side you are on.
Re: G20 protests
Perhaps TS might have had a different perspective if the protesters were draped in Australian Flags.
Liverpool said:
Perhaps TS might have had a different perspective if the protesters were draped in Australian Flags.
Re: G20 protests
Have a look at the protest where ther are 1000's of ratbag protestors with many breaking the law.Unfortunately the police were busy defending themselves & trying to restore order which meant only some were arrested.lefty said:
Thought I'd just change the name of this thread to include APEC, as the results will be the same as what happened at the G20, with the hypocritical protesters who chastise the USA and it's coalition partners for the violence in Iraq, yet use mindless violence themselves to get their point across. :
Probably the only difference between what happened in Melbourne, and what will (probably) happen in Sydney, is that the police up there won't be so timid, and will use the strong arm of the law to halt these professional agitators.
It's also a disgrace that a main city in this country, has to be fenced-off ala Cold-War Berlin, to protect world leaders visiting.
Protesters can't rule out violent action
September 4, 2007 - 11:20AM
The organisers of a radical protest group say they cannot rule out violence at the main rally against the APEC forum this Saturday - and have defended a manual they produced which provided controversial advice to protesters.
The claims emerged yesterday, after the Prime Minister, John Howard, had attacked the integrity of anti-globalisation protesters, saying their hatred of capitalism was hypocritical.
"Most of these people are demonstrating broadly against capitalism and economic growth, they hate it," he said.
"They think economic growth is poison for the poor instead of being a lifeline for the poor."
But the "FLARE in the Void" collective, one of the protest groups, which had been under fire for a manual they produced which tells activists how to disguise themselves during protests, said their work was a harmless "collection of writings".
One of the organisers, Lou Thatcher, 25, said she didn't think the outrage of the police and the Police Minister was genuine.
Neither Ms Thatcher or her fellow FLARE organiser, university student Navin Gill, 21, could understand the concern the manual had caused in this most security conscious of weeks. "[The manual] is clearly being used in a manipulative and false way as part of a fear campaign," said Ms Thatcher.
She said the collective, which has about 100 members, was holding a series of workshops and meetings in Marrickville from tomorrow to mark their opposition to the APEC summit.
"We can't say what's going to happen on the day, I don't want anyone to get hurt and I don't want anyone to get arrested," she said. "But what happens at that rally is going to be determined by who turns up."
They both said if the crowd decided to break police lines they would participate in that action regardless of the consequences.
Mr Howard said gatherings such as APEC helped alleviate global poverty by promoting economic growth and trade.
"If they are so concerned about world poverty, why don't they stop for a moment and recognise that the economic growth in the APEC region has lifted tens of millions of people out of poverty since APEC was founded?
Not all the protests being organised for APEC are aimed at globalism. Many groups are opposed to US President George Bush and the war in Iraq.
Mr Howard blamed the fencing through the central business district on protesters threatening violence.
"It's not the fault of the guests in our country," he said.
The fence stretches from King Street to Circular Quay and from George to Macquarie streets and will keep any protesters a long way from dignitaries.
He refused to say whether there was any intelligence warning of a major incident.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/protesters-cant-rule-out-violent-action/2007/09/03/1188783210696.html
Probably the only difference between what happened in Melbourne, and what will (probably) happen in Sydney, is that the police up there won't be so timid, and will use the strong arm of the law to halt these professional agitators.
It's also a disgrace that a main city in this country, has to be fenced-off ala Cold-War Berlin, to protect world leaders visiting.
Protesters can't rule out violent action
September 4, 2007 - 11:20AM
The organisers of a radical protest group say they cannot rule out violence at the main rally against the APEC forum this Saturday - and have defended a manual they produced which provided controversial advice to protesters.
The claims emerged yesterday, after the Prime Minister, John Howard, had attacked the integrity of anti-globalisation protesters, saying their hatred of capitalism was hypocritical.
"Most of these people are demonstrating broadly against capitalism and economic growth, they hate it," he said.
"They think economic growth is poison for the poor instead of being a lifeline for the poor."
But the "FLARE in the Void" collective, one of the protest groups, which had been under fire for a manual they produced which tells activists how to disguise themselves during protests, said their work was a harmless "collection of writings".
One of the organisers, Lou Thatcher, 25, said she didn't think the outrage of the police and the Police Minister was genuine.
Neither Ms Thatcher or her fellow FLARE organiser, university student Navin Gill, 21, could understand the concern the manual had caused in this most security conscious of weeks. "[The manual] is clearly being used in a manipulative and false way as part of a fear campaign," said Ms Thatcher.
She said the collective, which has about 100 members, was holding a series of workshops and meetings in Marrickville from tomorrow to mark their opposition to the APEC summit.
"We can't say what's going to happen on the day, I don't want anyone to get hurt and I don't want anyone to get arrested," she said. "But what happens at that rally is going to be determined by who turns up."
They both said if the crowd decided to break police lines they would participate in that action regardless of the consequences.
Mr Howard said gatherings such as APEC helped alleviate global poverty by promoting economic growth and trade.
"If they are so concerned about world poverty, why don't they stop for a moment and recognise that the economic growth in the APEC region has lifted tens of millions of people out of poverty since APEC was founded?
Not all the protests being organised for APEC are aimed at globalism. Many groups are opposed to US President George Bush and the war in Iraq.
Mr Howard blamed the fencing through the central business district on protesters threatening violence.
"It's not the fault of the guests in our country," he said.
The fence stretches from King Street to Circular Quay and from George to Macquarie streets and will keep any protesters a long way from dignitaries.
He refused to say whether there was any intelligence warning of a major incident.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/protesters-cant-rule-out-violent-action/2007/09/03/1188783210696.html
Liverpool said:
Its got nothing to do with this country - its your mate Bush - he attracts terrorists like a *smile* attracts flies - can't understand why though? Can you?
Tiger74 said:So far pretty peaceful, hopefully you will get your bloodbath tomorrow Liv
The decision made by the court has helped.
I have nothing against people protesting against Government policies and decisions, but the anarchy and destruction the protesters caused last time on shops, people, and property....was nothing to do with what they were believing in.
It was just an excuse to take on the police and cause anarchy, simple as that.
And they got a payout too!
RemoteTiger said:
It has everything to do with this country.
Was Bush here in Melbourne for the G20?
No.
And we know what happened here....go back to page-1 of this thread and tell me if this is all because of George Bush.
Secondly, if people don't like Bush or American policy, that is fine....but it doesn't justify violent behaviour and threats against public property.
Hating the USA is a popular fad, at present...up there with people wearing I-Pods in cars while driving, and carrying a bottle of water everywhere to make out you're fit and healthy. :hihi
It's a shame the same people don't exert as much energy into hating terrorism and the policies of certain Islamic leaders around the world, who have demonstrated FAR worse violent acts and threats, than George W. ever has.
A question Remote....what policy of the USA do you hate most?
It seems that the popular 'throwaway line' used by people who were interviewed on TV, was that of "We're here to protest Bush's policies and climate change." :
What a crap answer!
Half the protesters couldn't name one US policy, yet here they are protesting against "them".
No wonder it takes these morons 8 years to pass a 3 year Arts degree.... :hihi
typical brainwashed apoligest retort.WHAT WAS YOUR SOLUTITION TO THE PREVIOUS REGIME IN IRAQ? tell me remote how would you have dealt with a despot that gassed and tortured hundreds and thousands of innocents.i am sick to death of u.s bashers.if you think that bush ALONE makes the policies,and is to blame for terrorist activity in the western world ,you really are simpleRemoteTiger said:
Liverpool said:
Iraq invasion - done under false pretences - Weapons of mass destruction bulldust - Al Qaeda links bulldust (Saddam hated Osma Bin Laden more than we do) no September 11 gave Bush an excuse to get at Saddam (because Saddam nearly got Bush snr and Bush jnr wanted to control the Oil flow - even our Defence Minister Brendan Nelson said the Iraq war was about securing oil for the Western World). If the Americans had of maintained their focus (and ours) on Afganastan instead of invading Iraq the world would arguably been free of Al Qaeda - but all the Iraq invasion has done is create a "honey-pot" for all those Arab countries and extremists to fight the USA. It has strengthened the Al Qaeda by giving middle-eastern people a reason to hate the USA. The latest UK intelligence report has said this as well as ours and the US Intelligence people - who have all been saying it for 3 years now.
Australian/American Free Trade Agreement - it certainly is free trade for the USA companies to come here and sell their products - as an Australian IT Company we have to jump through hoops to sell anything to the US and/or the US Government. This single policy has created a Banana Republic IT Industry in Australia - we use to be world renowned for our R&D which always got Australian Government support - now because of the rules in the FTA our local IT Companies cannot get any of their products into Australian Government contracts which means no money which = no R&D. Guess where Australian R&D has relocated too? Malaysia and India.
Lastly - I dislike the American Congress system where large companies or wealthy people, to get the laws passed that they want, pay money to congressmen (women) election campaigns. Oil companies and Drug Companies etc. etc. Real democracy is one constituent = 1 vote however over there if you have money you have the ability to manipulate the political structure. This form of politics is starting here in Australia and if allowed to progress will spell the end to real democracy here too.
The USA the greatest democracy in the world - that money can buy!
Do we need the US as our ally? - yes - but that does not mean we have to agree with everything they do or say.
Do we need China as our ally? - yes - because they will be the worlds biggest economy by 2020 (they are now our biggest trading partner having just surpassed Japan)
I have many American friends - mainly through business dealings - and all of them see that the USA is not perfect - so why should we have to see it as perfect?
Hope that answers your question!
ssstone said:
Funny- exactly the same tyranny is happening in certain African countries - but the USA has no interest there - because Africa has no oil! What a foolish statement you made about Iraq - you cannot see that the US invasion had *smile* all to do with Saddam - it had to do with the Bush snr's and Bush jnr's Oil empire - even our astute (I use the word loosely) Defence Minister, Brendan Nelson admitted as much. And if you cannot see that the Iraq war has increased the terrorist hate for the yanks then you are naive.
Just as a footnote - check out the number of innocent people (civilians) who have died since the USA led invasion as compared to those that died under Saddam's reign. I suppose it is alright if the yanks do it but not if they do it to themselves hey?
Why don't you wipe the red ink off your neck and begin to see the real reasons why all leaders in this world do things.
Lastly - I dislike the American Congress system where large companies or wealthy people, to get the laws passed that they want, pay money to congressmen (women) election campaigns. Oil companies and Drug Companies etc. etc. Real democracy is one constituent = 1 vote however over there if you have money you have the ability to manipulate the political structure. This form of politics is starting here in Australia and if allowed to progress will spell the end to real democracy here too.
Remote, this one really upsets me as well
Lobbyists should be banned.
Remote, this one really upsets me as well
Lobbyists should be banned.
ssstone said:
Are you fair dinkum?
Saddam was a nasty piece of work - no doubt about it.
However the majority of the "hundreds and thousands of innocents" that have been killed is since the invasion.
Documented civilian deaths from violence in the Iraq war and occupation as of 7 Sept 2007: 71,302 – 77,852 [Source: http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ ]
So who is responsible for those deaths? [and how should we deal with them?]
The simple truth is that no amount of protesting is gonna change a thing. People who think so are deluded. The rich corporations and rich countries will do as they like (as they always have and always will) and no amount of pestering flies will make them change their ways. These people, for all their good intentions, make no difference at all.
LMAO at anyone who thinks that Bush's intention of invading Iraq was to liberate the Iraqi's. That's the funniest schit ever.
LMAO at anyone who thinks that Bush's intention of invading Iraq was to liberate the Iraqi's. That's the funniest schit ever.
