General Trade Discussion 2022

[Scoop]

Luke Jackson kicked 11 & that was seen as a pass mark.

Year three Jackson with a stack of improvement on a rookie contract vs top dollar Grundy. That's not Moneyball.

Yes Grundy missed games but you can't compare the two. Grundy will need to do much more than that.

 

[Aegean Tiger]

It’s funny with all the criticism they are getting I actually think they’ve gone about it the right way , we’re clubs have gone wrong in the past by clearing out senior players is they just haven’t drafted good kids , we were guilty of this . As long as you don’t have 35 under 20s on the list and you have outstanding off field staff IMHO it’s the way to go , put out the trash and draft the guns

All reports suggest next yrs draft is very strong. Reckon Sammy is playing it nicely.

 

[Aegean Tiger]

Can they endure the pain though ?

Reckon they will Redbugatti. Sammy is the golden child.

 

[Redford]

They are a very very tight unit at the “Family Club” , look there maybe a few more members left at the pound in the next 3 or 4 years , however im sure they’ll be back………eventually.

Im not sure they are of Premiership quality , however they do appear to have potential in a few of their KPP , aggressive rucks and some decent looking young mids

Between them and Melbourne, they have the biggest front running fans in the league.

When they aren’t top 4 certs, they go missing very easily and very quickly the Hawthorn fans.

 

[Leysy Days]

That's the most rose coloured look I've read on this thread. Howe long he been in the system? He plays the same way every time I've ever seen him at AFL level. Poor aerially and useless when the ball hits the ground. Other than that he's great. How any team could select him after everything they've seen is staggering. It's not like he didn't have an opportunity at the Bulldogs. They have been crying out for a second key forward for years. They've had a dominant midfield and a Key forward who takes most of the heat and still Schache couldn't get a consistent gig. He's simply not AFL standard. The Dees have replaced Weideman with an arguably worse player.

Yeah Schache has never shown any AFL ability or qualities. Simply not good enough to influence at AFL level.

If he was taken pick 63 he'd have been delisted years ago, but for some deluded reason (and despite all evidence) clubs seem to keep giving him a chance.

It does show how desperate Melbourne are for tall forwards - which will let them down again next year.

 

[Scoop]

Yeah Schache has never shown any AFL ability or qualities. Simply not good enough to influence at AFL level.

If he was taken pick 63 he'd have been delisted years ago, but for some deluded reason (and despite all evidence) clubs seem to keep giving him a chance.

It does show how desperate Melbourne are for tall forwards - which will let them down again next year.

Melbourne will play VanRooyen very early next year. They think he's a major part of their woes next year. Can play as second tall in the forward line.

Big ask of a year two guy. But that's how hight they rate him.

 

[Leysy Days]

Melbourne will play VanRooyen very early next year. They think he's a major part of their woes next year. Can play as second tall in the forward line.

Big ask of a year two guy. But that's how hight they rate him.

Yeah he is highly rated. Not many can influence games so young though. Big ask.

 

[AstuteTiger]

SEN


THE AGE


ESPN

 

[TigerFurious]

It’s funny with all the criticism they are getting I actually think they’ve gone about it the right way , we’re clubs have gone wrong in the past by clearing out senior players is they just haven’t drafted good kids , we were guilty of this . As long as you don’t have 35 under 20s on the list and you have outstanding off field staff IMHO it’s the way to go , put out the trash and draft the guns

Disagree with this take. Reckon you need senior players showing the way to the rookies. Otherwise you just have a bunch of coaches telling kids what to do and no one actually showing them how to do it.

North is a good recent example of a club that cut too much experience from their list too soon. Culture takes a long time to build but can be trashed very quickly.

 

[Brodders17]

It’s funny with all the criticism they are getting I actually think they’ve gone about it the right way , we’re clubs have gone wrong in the past by clearing out senior players is they just haven’t drafted good kids , we were guilty of this . As long as you don’t have 35 under 20s on the list and you have outstanding off field staff IMHO it’s the way to go , put out the trash and draft the guns

You are assuming clubs have got the drafting bit wrong, and that leadership and development havent had a significant impact.

 

[bullus_hit]

Year three Jackson with a stack of improvement on a rookie contract vs top dollar Grundy. That's not Moneyball.

Yes Grundy missed games but you can't compare the two. Grundy will need to do much more than that.

Don't confuse Jackson's defection with Grundy's value, two separate issues, I'm looking at each trade in isolation and weighing up the value.

1. Grundy (pick 27 & 300k salary)

Outstanding value, particularly if the sub gets scrapped for an extra player

2. Mitchell (pick 41 & 50 & part salary)

Pretty good bet, low ball risk in a draft with potentially 50 selections.

These were the classic Moneyball trades, both players still have good football left in them & could easily finish top 5 in the B&F. Both Collingwood & Melbourne fair weight for top 4 so a premiership would vindicate these additions. In the case of Melbourne they haven't necessarily had a net gain, more stabilising the list but they improved their draft hand this year & next.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

Don't confuse Jackson's defection with Grundy's value, two separate issues, I'm looking at each trade in isolation and weighing up the value.

1. Grundy (pick 27 & 300k salary)

Outstanding value, particularly if the sub gets scrapped for an extra player

2. Mitchell (pick 41 & 50 & part salary)

Pretty good bet, low ball risk in a draft with potentially 50 selections.

These were the classic Moneyball trades, both players still have good football left in them & could easily finish top 5 in the B&F. Both Collingwood & Melbourne fair weight for top 4 so a premiership would vindicate these additions. In the case of Melbourne they haven't necessarily had a net gain, more stabilising the list but they improved their draft hand this year & next.

It all sounds good when you put it tat way but

2nd Ruckman getting $700k a year ?
only really a 1 position player
29 years old in April with 5 more years remaining on his contract - Thats a big risk still

Mitchell i do get but his inability to defend and run both ways doesnt suit our game style and i dont think it suits pies either
but if we didnt get Hopper and taranto he would have been a midfield quick fix

 

[17]

Melbourne will play VanRooyen very early next year. They think he's a major part of their woes next year. Can play as second tall in the forward line.

Big ask of a year two guy. But that's how hight they rate him.

The one that got away from us.
Still scratching my head wondering why we took Brown over Van Rooyen last year.
A tall forward we desperately needed to draft.
Bauer subsequently was a relatively cheap option in the mid season draft, but no guarantees he is the answer - yet all our eggs are currently in his basket.
Its probably been done to death 12m ago, but anyone care to refresh on why we overlooked Van Rooyen?

 

[bullus_hit]

It all sounds good when you put it tat way but

2nd Ruckman getting $700k a year ?
only really a 1 position player
29 years old in April with 5 more years remaining on his contract - Thats a big risk still

Mitchell i do get but his inability to defend and run both ways doesnt suit our game style and i dont think it suits pies either
but if we didnt get Hopper and taranto he would have been a midfield quick fix

If you look at the ruck depth across the entire AFL this trade represents even more bang for the buck. Plenty of pensioners still offering their services well into their 30s, Stef Martin (35), McEvoy (33), Ryder (34), Goldy (34), Hickey (32 next season), Stanley (32 next season), Mummy (35 upon retirement).

I reckon the risk with Grundy has been overblown, second best ruck in the comp with plenty of football left.

 

[Dont Argue]

The one that got away from us.
Still scratching my head wondering why we took Brown over Van Rooyen last year.
A tall forward we desperately needed to draft.
Bauer subsequently was a relatively cheap option in the mid season draft, but no guarantees he is the answer - yet all our eggs are currently in his basket.
Its probably been done to death 12m ago, but anyone care to refresh on why we overlooked Van Rooyen?

We will never know why we overlooked JVR unless you speak directly with Clarke or Hartley.
There were questions on his kicking and he can look a little gangly/untidy at times but I definitely would have pulled the trigger on a needs basis.
They must have rated Brown very highly to reach for him at pick 17 on a best available basis.
Bauer’s stats in the VFL actually stack up fairly well against JVR albeit with a much smaller body of work.

 

[bullus_hit]

We will never know why we overlooked JVR unless you speak directly with Clarke or Hartley.
There were questions on his kicking and he can look a little gangly/untidy at times but I definitely would have pulled the trigger on a needs basis.
They must have rated Brown very highly to reach for him at pick 17 on a best available basis.
Bauer’s stats in the VFL actually stack up fairly well against JVR albeit with a much smaller body of work.

I reckon Bauer & JVR aren't exactly like for like, I see Bauer as more of a third tall whereas JVR has the makings of a genuine key forward.

 

[RoarEmotion]

Hartley has said draft for talent and trade for need. So I’m guessing we though brown talent > JVR and ignored need.

If you play this out in full you should end up with more talent capital than other teams that draft for need. So you can then trade that capital for need. Albeit you may be in a weak position since the team you are trading with know what you need.

So far seems to be working.

Needed a FF and got lynch.

Needed midfielders and we got this draft.

 

[Sintiger]

We will never know why we overlooked JVR unless you speak directly with Clarke or Hartley.
There were questions on his kicking and he can look a little gangly/untidy at times but I definitely would have pulled the trigger on a needs basis.
They must have rated Brown very highly to reach for him at pick 17 on a best available basis.
Bauer’s stats in the VFL actually stack up fairly well against JVR albeit with a much smaller body of work.

I watched the VFL finals a bit and JVR was ok but didn't look AFL ready, but he was a first year player this year

Got plenty of supply from a dominant team which probably helped his stats.

 

[Dont Argue]

I watched the VFL finals a bit and JVR was ok but didn't look AFL ready, but he was a first year player this year

Got plenty of supply from a dominant team which probably helped his stats.

JVR actually played a fair amount of games at CHB also which distorts his goal averages somewhat.
Bauer coming off no AFL preseason was impressive no matter how you look at it.

 

[Dont Argue]

I reckon Bauer & JVR aren't exactly like for like, I see Bauer as more of a third tall whereas JVR has the makings of a genuine key forward.

They do play differently although, depending on which source you believe, there’s only 1cm ( maximum 2cm ) difference in height between them.
Bauer is definitely more mobile and a better kick. Seems to get plenty of air going for his marks but not sure he’s your lead up mark/kick type player.
I’ve definitely liked what I’ve seen so far.
Can only get better from here