Global Warming | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Global Warming

AngryAnt

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Nov 25, 2004
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In no way am I defending those two, but in what world would any emergency service not provide explicit pleas and warnings not to cut their budget?

Not sure. Perhaps in a world where the overall fire risk is decreasing, fire seasons are shortening, and fire intensity is diminishing. In their advice to government they made the point that the reverse of all those things is happening, and they have concrete evidence and experience proving that.
 
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Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
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Not sure. Perhaps in a world where the overall fire risk is decreasing, fire seasons are shortening, and fire intensity is diminishing. In their advice to government they made the point that the reverse of all those things is happening, and they have concrete evidence and experience proving that.
Not even in that world would that happen. In reality the government has no way to accurately provide appropriate budgets for these services because there are no prices to tell them how to allocate. All the emergency services departments would have been arguing that they needed more money and it looks like the fire service didn’t have as good arguments (or more likely political clout) than the other departments.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
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Not even in that world would that happen. In reality the government has no way to accurately provide appropriate budgets for these services because there are no prices to tell them how to allocate. All the emergency services departments would have been arguing that they needed more money and it looks like the fire service didn’t have as good arguments (or more likely political clout) than the other departments.

No, it's because governments in Australia are all about generating fake surpluses for political reasons and are not interested in evidence-based policy making and budget decisions.

Here's the basic strategy - we run down publically funded services by cutting funding incrementally (or radically) every year. Occasionally for political reasons you give some funding back and announce that is "hey we listened and are building 1 new hospital or school" while in reality we keep cutting funding across the board. As hospital waiting lists grow we can then blame it on immigrants and population growth. We then can argue that "public doesn't work" and privatise by selling these public enterprises to our mates in the private sector, but continuing to make it lucrative by subsidising these services with government funding - the so-called "PPP's", "Public/Private Partnerships". After we retire from parliament our mates reward us by giving us lucrative consulting jobs associated with the industries we just corrupted and sold.

A more egregious example at the last election was giving Clive Palmer his new mine in return for him funding Clive Palmer party candidates in QLD electorates and funneling preferences back to the LNP, winning a bunch of QLD seats and retaining government for ScoMo. That was $50 mill of political advertising well spent by Clive - he had no intention of winning seats.
 
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artball

labels are for canned food
Jul 30, 2013
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it's not just the fire depts that had funding cut - 36% of it - but also the National Parks by about the same figure. double whammy.
 

Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
No, it's because governments in Australia are all about generating fake surpluses for political reasons and are not interested in evidence-based policy making and budget decisions.

Here's the basic strategy - we run down publically funded services by cutting funding incrementally (or radically) every year. Occasionally for political reasons you give some funding back and announce that is "hey we listened and are building 1 new hospital or school" while in reality we keep cutting funding across the board. As hospital waiting lists grow we can then blame it on immigrants and population growth. We then can argue that "public doesn't work" and privatise by selling these public enterprises to our mates in the private sector, but continuing to make it lucrative by subsidising these services with government funding - the so-called "PPP's", "Public/Private Partnerships". After we retire from parliament our mates reward us by giving us lucrative consulting jobs associated with the industries we just corrupted and sold.
Lol evidence based policy making. What evidence could possibly tell you what resources should be directed to building fire engines vs hiring doctors (and what wage to pay them) vs how many rescue helicopters to build? There are only so many resources available and ensuring they are directed to the most demanded goods needs a common yardstick with which to determine trade-offs. You lament the poor outcomes of bureaucratic management, perhaps you should think a bit more critically of bureaucratic management itself.
 

artball

labels are for canned food
Jul 30, 2013
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At face value it makes little sense. What percentage of firefighting capacity has been utilised in NSW over the past decade or so?
its the busiest in the country.
but they drive these cuts with Stats and don't look at the future and what the weather is going to do. they've had forever to back-burn and haven't. the white guy has never listened to the Indigenous fellas who had this stuff wired in their DNA. let them managed the parks - give them jobs, and some self-esteem back ...
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
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Melbourne
its the busiest in the country.
but they drive these cuts with Stats and don't look at the future and what the weather is going to do. they've had forever to back-burn and haven't. the white guy has never listened to the Indigenous fellas who had this stuff wired in their DNA. let them managed the parks - give them jobs, and some self-esteem back ...

It's not a silly idea. Would assume rangers require a certain level of education, above e.g. holding up a STOP sign on a road crew. You couldn't just make someone a park ranger because they're indigenous and assumed to have an affinitiy with the land.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,168
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Lol evidence based policy making. What evidence could possibly tell you what resources should be directed to building fire engines vs hiring doctors (and what wage to pay them) vs how many rescue helicopters to build? There are only so many resources available and ensuring they are directed to the most demanded goods needs a common yardstick with which to determine trade-offs. You lament the poor outcomes of bureaucratic management, perhaps you should think a bit more critically of bureaucratic management itself.

Evidence-based meaning we have more fires and this is what we are projecting. We therefore need more or less firefighting resources and these hazard reduction measures. We could throw up our hands and say "oh its too hard to assign budget to according to actual needs because we don't have an easy freemarket mechanism to determine relative value" but actually the reason budgets were cut is because of an obsession with delivering surpluses for political reasons. Now people are losing their homes and livlihoods are paying the real cost.

I'm really not interested in debating the pros and cons of Libertarianism at this point, sorry G.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,168
15,037
its the busiest in the country.
but they drive these cuts with Stats and don't look at the future and what the weather is going to do. they've had forever to back-burn and haven't. the white guy has never listened to the Indigenous fellas who had this stuff wired in their DNA. let them managed the parks - give them jobs, and some self-esteem back ...

Agree with your point Artball, I think you are probably talking about hazard reduction burns there, which are preventative burns to reduce fuel loads before fire season starts. Back burning is controlled burns in front of active fires to stop live fires spreading.
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
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I'd be happy for the government to wind up the ABC and hand the money to emergency services instead.

Your turning into a lefty pinot gigolo commie pinko L2.

not that long ago, you'dve wanted Sky Jones and Credlin to get that redistribution.