Global Warming | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Global Warming

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
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Australian governments, state and federal, do their level best to prevent coal exports from expanding by imposing punitive royalties.
This is another Cater clanger. If you believe climate change isn't really an issue, and coal mining companies should just be left in peace to make huge profits, effectively as big as they want, from our coal, and externalising the cost of burning it, fine. If you believe all that, Cater does, and you might, fine.

I don't accept that position.

ALSO, he says "Australian GovernmentSSSSSS", plural. there is only ONE Australian Government, the Queensland government, who have jacked up royalties. Not plural, singular. ALSO, he says 'punitive', but the coal miners continue to make big profits, massive profits. The raising of the coal royalty by the Queensland Government, (from about 3% to 8%) is, if you believe CC is real, one of the greatest policies in Australian history. Increase tax on the polluting industry to help pay for the transition to renewables to fix the damage pollution is doing. They are using the dough to build 2 big pumped hydro projects that will, if built, do most of the heavy lifting by storing wind and solar power for evening use, powering about 4 million homes. Its very smart policy. They can't brag though because we all know what happens when you really poke the mining industry bear. The coal miner's profits are a bit smaller sure, but still huge. It is an amazing policy, the first time ever, to my knowledge, that an Australian government has imposed a mining policy that the miners don't want. Its great policy, and very gutsy politically.
 
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tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
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Tigersnake, I would take issue with the notion that mining royalties drive our economy.

Just as a comparison, given you work in that industry, and I was until recently working in tertiary education.

The figures I found on mining royalties was $112 billion in the last decade according to a Minerals Council press release in Feb 2023, so around $11 billion per annum.

In comparison tertiary education collected $9.9 billion in overseas fees in 2019, slightly down in 2020 at $9.2 billion (COVID affected). Figures from Universities Australia, so, the tertiary education equivalent.

Mining gets a lot of attention for what it contributes, but other sectors don't get the attention they deserve.

DS
Its a fair point. There are other big economic drivers, but to me our mining industry is what pushes us to the top in terms of living standards. Its what we have that other countries don't. Australia and canada both have small populations, a lot of land, and huge mining industries, and good standards of living. NZ for example, it has everything we have, except a mining industry, and their living standards are significantly lower and going backwards.

Its not just the royalties, its also tax, (both should be significantly more, we should do a Norway, but they are still big) the mining company ecosystem is huge and ingrained, 2 of the 3 biggest mining companies in the world are Australian.

On Queensland Coal royalties, its basically a super profits tax that cashed-in, unintended because it was in the works prior, on the Russia Ukraine War, $18 billion, for 22-23FY, for a single commodity. Queensland also has big bauxite and copper/ lead/ zinc mines. And thats just QLD, who are a distant second to WA. The WA iron ore boom of the 2000s, which was astronomical, unless you've seen it, worked on it, or read in depth about it nobody comprehends it, basically kept Howard in power and powered our economy for 15-20 years, you can make a good argument it still does.
 
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RoarEmotion

Tiger Legend
Aug 20, 2005
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Tigersnake, I would take issue with the notion that mining royalties drive our economy.

Just as a comparison, given you work in that industry, and I was until recently working in tertiary education.

The figures I found on mining royalties was $112 billion in the last decade according to a Minerals Council press release in Feb 2023, so around $11 billion per annum.

In comparison tertiary education collected $9.9 billion in overseas fees in 2019, slightly down in 2020 at $9.2 billion (COVID affected). Figures from Universities Australia, so, the tertiary education equivalent.

Mining gets a lot of attention for what it contributes, but other sectors don't get the attention they deserve.

DS

Can you compare fees and royalties directly? I’m assuming only a fraction of fees ends up as taxes. Don’t royalties go straight to the bottom line?
 
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RoarEmotion

Tiger Legend
Aug 20, 2005
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Interview with CEO of a uranium miner. Bringing on new supply sounds exceptionally difficult.

Listening to The HC Insider Podcast: Conversations in Energy & Commodities (Uranium with John Cash)

<p>In this episode we address that very special commodity Uranium, crucial to the energy and defense industry alike. Nuclear’s role is the energy transition is increasingly recognized. But where will the needed Uranium come from in a more fragmented world?</p><p>How is Uranium mined, processed and delivered to the nuclear energy plants. Where is it produced and who controls the supply chain? How is Uranium traded? How has the market fared and what does the future hold. Our guest is John Cash, CEO of Ur Energy (URG), the leading uranium miner in North America.</p>


https://podcasts.hcinsider.global/episodes/uranium-with-john-cash-39P1ci9v
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,712
18,341
Melbourne
Can you compare fees and royalties directly? I’m assuming only a fraction of fees ends up as taxes. Don’t royalties go straight to the bottom line?

It is not an easy comparison but the fees of international students (and, even more so, local students) are a major reason why successive governments have been able to de-fund tertiary education. Recurrent funding of public universities is now well less than 50% of operating costs, back in the early 90s it was somewhere near 80%.

I suppose my main point is that, given a lot of mining profits go to overseas owned companies, given mining is replacing employees with automation, that it's role in this country's prosperity is over-emphasised.

DS
 
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RoarEmotion

Tiger Legend
Aug 20, 2005
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It is not an easy comparison but the fees of international students (and, even more so, local students) are a major reason why successive governments have been able to de-fund tertiary education. Recurrent funding of public universities is now well less than 50% of operating costs, back in the early 90s it was somewhere near 80%.

I suppose my main point is that, given a lot of mining profits go to overseas owned companies, given mining is replacing employees with automation, that it's role in this country's prosperity is over-emphasised.

DS
Well made points.

On the other hand not sure what it has done to cost of living by impacting property prices.
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
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It is not an easy comparison but the fees of international students (and, even more so, local students) are a major reason why successive governments have been able to de-fund tertiary education. Recurrent funding of public universities is now well less than 50% of operating costs, back in the early 90s it was somewhere near 80%.

I suppose my main point is that, given a lot of mining profits go to overseas owned companies, given mining is replacing employees with automation, that it's role in this country's prosperity is over-emphasised.

DS
Employment has little to do with it. Despite the industry and political narrative, mining is not a big employer relative to revenue, never has been. Its tiny compared to say tourism, agriculture, who generate far less revenue. Remote controlled trucks, which are pretty normal now, have not taken many jobs, and there are a lot less accidents. Its all about the royalties and taxes, which are massive, and pretty simple. If you turn on a gas well, or an oil well, you're basically turning on a money tap. Thats why governments (and mining companies of course) love mining, once a mine starts production, the money just rolls in.

Its not over-emphasised. Love or hate the mining industry, or parts of it, it generates huge wealth for our nation, and underpins our high living standard.

On the overseas companies thing, yes its an issue, but there is also a swathe of Aussie mining companies, big and medium, that have projects in other nations.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,712
18,341
Melbourne
Well made points.

On the other hand not sure what it has done to cost of living by impacting property prices.

Actually the HECS Fees just made it even harder for graduates to raise the funds to buy a house, certainly hasn't depressed housing prices which are out of control.

Tigersnake, I agree with some of what you say but probably not all of it!

As a country we have relied on mining for too long, then again, it keeps paying the bills. That's why they call us the lucky country!

DS
 

Willo

Tiger Legend
Oct 13, 2007
18,648
6,608
Aldinga Beach
Good to see that Albo must have read the article I posted from Nick Cater addressed to Nick Bowen.
It looks like it has spurred the Feds into action.
Using taxpayers money to stimulate manufacturing of solar panels means we’re less reliant on China. Assists some startup businesses and helps employment and skills.

Now they just need to sink some money back into TAFE courses, encourage and even subsidise/tax breaks for bus8nesses to employ more apprenticeships.
But this at least is a good start. If the county is to continue to invest in renewables it’s crucial we have a trained and skilled workforce and the technology that is able to manufacture equipment right here in own country.
Big tick from me.

Tindo solar, currently Australia’s only solar cell manufacturer will soon have some competition.

Anthony Albanese announces Solar SunShot manufacturing program to boost Australian production​



635f1f9c54b9b95e796be50dcf9a27d8

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese announces a billion-dollar solar initiative.(ABC News)
  • In short: A former coal-fired power station will be turned into a solar manufacturing hub as part of a $1 billion federal program.
  • The government says it will provide incentives for solar panels to be built in Australia.
  • What's next? An industry leader says the government needs to prioritise training for workers to transition into renewable energy roles.
The prime minister has travelled to coal mining heartland in the New South Wales Hunter Valley to announce a $1 billion program that aims to boost the number of solar panels made in Australia.
One in three Australian households have solar panels, the highest rate in the world, but only 1 per cent of them are manufactured locally.
The federal government hopes to change that with its new Solar SunShot program, which will oversee production subsidies and grants to increase Australia's role in the global solar manufacturing supply chain.

One of Australia's oldest operating coal-fired station Liddell powers down in the Hunter Valley​

The last running turbine at the Liddell Power Station has powered down, marking the end of a 52-year legacy of generating electricity in the NSW Hunter Valley.
Three workers out the front of Liddell Power Station
Read more

Mr Albanese told ABC Radio Newcastle that the site of the closed Liddell Power Station near Muswellbrook would be developed as a solar manufacturing hub.
"Liddell, of course, helped to power New South Wales for a long period of time in the last century and into this one," he said.
"Now, the production that will occur there will help power New South Wales and Australia, and potentially have export potential as well."
He said the program was being started in the NSW Hunter region to make sure coal-communities such as Muswellbrook and Singleton weren't left behind as mines and power stations shut down in the coming decades.
"There are other planned closures in the future ... [it is important] that we look for opportunities that workers continue to be employed in alternative, high-paying secure jobs," Mr Albanese said.
"That is what we are about using industry policy, particularly when it comes to manufacturing, because we want a future made here in Australia."

Major investment​

Anthony Albanese said a majority of the billion-dollar commitment would be used on the transformation of Liddell, with the rest of the funding available to other projects.
"This is the largest announcement of its type that has been made in Australia's history because the Liddell site, I can't think of one that is more important," Mr Albanese said.
A view of the Liddell coal-fired power plant from across a lake, with swans in the foreground

The Liddell coal-fired power plant is set to become a solar panel production hub.(ABC News: John Gunn)
He said an Australian-based solar company would come to Liddell to start manufacturing solar panels.
He said the government was looking at creating more jobs than were previously at Liddell when it was operating as a coal-fired power station.
"So we're looking at hundreds of jobs being created, but the flow on impact as well for the region," he said.
The owner of the Liddell Power Station site, AGL, and solar startup SunDrive have begun a partnership to investigate how they might transform the station to a manufacturing plant
"From a material point of view, Australia is in the top three global reserves in every major mineral that is needed to make a solar panel" said SunDrive CEO Vincent Allen.
He said the other benefit of domestic solar panel production was to save on importation costs.
"If you're in Australia and you buy a solar panel, about 15 per cent of the cost is just to get it to Australia."

Welcome boost​

Hunter Business Chamber chief executive Bob Hawes said he was pleased the government had announced the plan within the first year of Liddell's closure.
A man in glasses and a suit

Bob Hawes says businesses have expressed interest in the transition to renewables.(ABC Upper Hunter: Ross McLoughlin)
Mr Hawes said the site was well entrenched in terms of existing power and power network.
"Things like this do require enormous amounts of power, and if Australia has to meet its net zero targets, we have to think about putting these new heavy manufacturing industries close to where those power generation networks exist," he said.
Mr Hawes said he expected the Liddell plan would have flow-on benefits to other local businesses, and the community as a whole.
"We get inquiries now from [manufacturing] businesses here that are supplying transport or other industries, but they're keen on knowing what might be happening in the renewable energy industry," he said.
"They want a way to diversify their business and grow into those new industries."
However, he said the government needed to plan further for the transition away from the coal industry, particularly in pivoting the skills of existing energy workers.
"It's just a matter of redirecting some of the existing pathways that we have to provide people those opportunities should they choose to wish to go into those industries," he said.

Net Zero plans​

The Solar SunShot program will be developed alongside the government's Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA), which already manages a similar hydrogen investment program.
A group of people in front of a closed coal fired power station

Anthony Albanese made the announcement at Liddell power station on Thursday.(ABC Newcastle: Jesmine Cheong)
The Prime Minister's office said in a statement that "ARENA will look at the entire supply chain" in the solar manufacturing space, and how the government can provide grants to boost domestic solar-technology innovation.
Greens senator David Shoebridge welcomed the solar manufacturing funding, but called on the government to take its spending on green energy a step further.
"Right now, the Albanese Government is investing some billions of dollars in renewables, while opening up fresh coal and gas projects," he said.
"You can't have it both ways. We say to the Albanese government, deliver coherent policy, which has to be all about renewables and needs to permanently move away from coal and gas."

 
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TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
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It is not an easy comparison but the fees of international students (and, even more so, local students) are a major reason why successive governments have been able to de-fund tertiary education. Recurrent funding of public universities is now well less than 50% of operating costs, back in the early 90s it was somewhere near 80%.

I suppose my main point is that, given a lot of mining profits go to overseas owned companies, given mining is replacing employees with automation, that it's role in this country's prosperity is over-emphasised.

DS
Problems with a few of those international students. We've gotta house them, then they load the *smile* out of our transport infrastructure, both of which are already struggling to cope big time and then we've got to try n get bloody rid of them when they drop out or decide it's way better to hang around here regardless of how educated they might get or not. At least with a mine you just find a few nut cases happy to do a bit of FIFO to earn big money for digging a dirty great hole in the ground way out the back of *smile* creek n hardly create a ripple on the way through.
 

RoarEmotion

Tiger Legend
Aug 20, 2005
5,123
6,830
Will be interesting to see how much work to rule union labor panels cost vs slave labor China panels.
 

TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
25,845
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Negative leap second may be incoming.

Haaarrrgh FMD now we're all gunna die coz the earth is spinning a couple of seconds a year or century slower than we used to think it did. Boffins have been dropping a second or two for years. I'm pretty sure that since we invented a nuclear clock for better accuracy the boffins have realised that the old style time keepers weren't all that accurate n needed adjusting every now and again. Then on top of that we have pollies deciding that it's way more fun to adjust our time keeping specs every few months to catch as much sunshine as possible each year just so we can fade all the Qweelanders curtains.
 

TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
25,845
11,827
Will be interesting to see how much work to rule union labor panels cost vs slave labor China panels.
They'll be given away freebies to anyone who wants some. We'll have already paid for the *smile* things through our taxes subsidising the fancy new manufacturing plants in the first place.
 
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bengal tigers

Tiger Superstar
Apr 29, 2015
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Yesterday l seen the new evolution of road side assist .
Mobile EV charging utes😮 They charge the EV using diesel generators :ROFLMAO:
 
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Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
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I thought that until recently

but their builders are collapsing owing $trillions, they're conducting fire-sales of international assets (e.g. Tasmanian dairy), and they are seriously slowing up.

I know they play a long game, but its entirely possible they may have peaked a few decades too soon?

there is a pretty interesting and dynamic interview process going on for Boss of the World right now.
They are well ahead of the curve (compared to that reported in official CCP govt figures) in terms of demographic decline too.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,168
15,040
Makes no difference, he isn't serious about nuclear power, just a stupid idea to look like he wants to do something about climate change and to extend the life of fossil fuel energy.

DS

Very true... Just another culture war salvo
 
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