Government Stimulus package.

[Tiger74]

So what you're saying is that if everyone used their stimulus payments purely to pay of existing debt, the vast majority (you're talking about $27 every month which most people won't even notice ) as opposed to the $1800 (27 being 1.5% of 1800, I hope that's right, uninstalling askbar deleted most of my start menu damn it!) of the stimulus will simply disappear into current debt. What is $27 a month anyway?, $7 a week. Won't make a difference. You're still talking 98.5% disappearing into current debt.

I'd rather the money be put into necessary infrastructure projects like we discussed on the water thread. Yes, it may go into land and materials, but better to provide jobs in the short term at this stage.

I never said EVERYONE would spend it on debt, I was responding to Liverpool saying no one would spend it, that they would save it all.

The numbers were just ones picked purely for the exercise, I could of found out average credit card debt and worked out average govt benefit per household, but thats too much work - $5k and 2 people no kids was a nice clean figure.

As for $27 per month being nothing, don't underestimate it. Its a trip to the movies, a beer with your mates after work, something people may be sacrificing up till now. More importantly its a cumulative effect, what doesn't get spent each week is saved, further reducing debt, reducing interest payments, and increasing the persons disposable income.

Back to infrastructure, the jobs benefit is debatable depending upon the project. They tend to be focused on only one sector (usually road civil engineering), and once done its all over. If you want infrastructure it has to be proper infrastructure that will deliver an economic benefit (like the bay dredge), unlike that idiotic Adelaide/Darwin railroad, which cost a packet and does SFA.

 

[1eyedtiger]

I never said EVERYONE would spend it on debt, I was responding to Liverpool saying no one would spend it, that they would save it all.

The numbers were just ones picked purely for the exercise, I could of found out average credit card debt and worked out average govt benefit per household, but thats too much work - $5k and 2 people no kids was a nice clean figure.

As for $27 per month being nothing, don't underestimate it. Its a trip to the movies, a beer with your mates after work, something people may be sacrificing up till now. More importantly its a cumulative effect, what doesn't get spent each week is saved, further reducing debt, reducing interest payments, and increasing the persons disposable income.

Back to infrastructure, the jobs benefit is debatable depending upon the project. They tend to be focused on only one sector (usually road civil engineering), and once done its all over. If you want infrastructure it has to be proper infrastructure that will deliver an economic benefit (like the bay dredge), unlike that idiotic Adelaide/Darwin railroad, which cost a packet and does SFA.

$7 a week. enough for 2 beers. I suppose the Libs can call it the 2 beers bonus! Not enough for even one round with a few mates. Besides, business's will find some way of extracting that money from consumers without providing any extra services or goods anyway. The price of petrol, groceries, whatever you care to think of, will go up just that little bit so that over time, the stimulus simply disappears without any real economic benefit at all.

 

[Tiger74]

$7 a week. enough for 2 beers. I suppose the Libs can call it the 2 beers bonus! Not enough for even one round with a few mates. Besides, business's will find some way of extracting that money from consumers without providing any extra services or goods anyway. The price of petrol, groceries, whatever you care to think of, will go up just that little bit so that over time, the stimulus simply disappears without any real economic benefit at all.

Actually inflation triggered by demand is unlikely to be a major issue yet, we are trying to get the patient up from Critical to Serious, hardly a dude running amok. May be an issue when the recovery kicks in, but thats unlikely to be any time soon.

 

[Broadsword95]

This knuckle-head idea of a "stimulus package" is simply one of the biggest wastes of taxpayers money in Australian history...surely?
We'll have nothing to show for it....money will be either saved (by the smart people), shovelled offshore by 'Australians' sending it back home, money given to people who don't even live in Australia....cats and dogs and pets can get some and even dead people! :cutelaugh .....and now even jailed murderers/rapists are eligible as long as they complete their tax-return! :

Murderers, rapists get Rudd's $900 bonus
THE Opposition wants the Rudd cash payments overhauled after reports prisoners and dead people may get the money.
Thousands of prison inmates will be eligible for cash payments of up to $900 if they earned an income last financial year.
The government confirmed inmates would receive a tax bonus if they satisfied the eligibility criteria under the government's $42 billion economic stimulus package.
About $75 million of stimulus cash paid in December went to 60,000 overseas-based pensioners. And tens of thousands of foreigners and expat Aussies will get the coming tax bonus payments.
Some dead people will also be eligible, while there is a report that dogs could get the money after the death of a master.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25202808-662,00.html


And to top off this *smile*ed idea:

The revelation comes as the Government borrows $2 billion a week to finance its $42 billion economic rescue plan.

Great stuff knuckle-heads!

On the whole Livers I agree with you on this issue, but I find it endlessly frustrating how you perpetually quote newspaper articles as backing up your arguments. It's very loose; it doesn't stand up over time.

 

[Liverpool]

On the whole Livers I agree with you on this issue, but I find it endlessly frustrating how you perpetually quote newspaper articles as backing up your arguments. It's very loose; it doesn't stand up over time.

Fair enough.
However, what part of the article I quoted do you think is untrue or false?
If its true and fact then it should matter where it comes from.
Just because something comes from a media source doesn't mean it should be discarded as wrong.
I know the media, at times, can fabricate and exaggerate to sell papers but that also shouldn't be used to somply dismiss everything that comes from a media source either.

 

[RemoteTiger]

Thank God for the Stimulas package - sales in my retail shops have soared over the last week - this has enabled me to keep staff on whereas if it had kept going the way it was I would have had to start letting a few go.

It is stimilating the retail sector - this for me is good very good.

Now a nice tax break with a juicy capital investment incentive and my retail businesses will hold up fine for a year or so until this GFC becomes old news.

 

[Rosy]

It's good to read about first hand positive experience with the scheme rather than negative speculation. Good news that the retail sector is being stimulated and I hope most use the money as intended. A kick start to the retail sector should flow on and benefit us all.

 

[BalmyArmy]

Has anyone received their money yet? I thought payments were to be made my middle of this week.

 

[Liverpool]

A great opportunity for the Government to use the money to spend on infrastructure/jobs if throwing it away is what they wanted to do....but no...they do this:

Less than half will spend stimulus payments, survey finds
LESS than half of people receiving the latest Federal Government stimulus payments intend to spend all or part of the cash, a survey says.
The Australian Tax Office last week started rolling out the tax bonus of up to $900 to millions of taxpayers earning less than $100,000 as part of the Government's $42 billion stimulus package.
The survey, commissioned by St George and released today, found that of the $7.7 billion being handed out just $2.6 billion would be spent.
Of those surveyed, 35 per cent planned to pay down their credit cards and personal debt, while nine per cent would put the money towards mortgage payments.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25333802-662,00.html

Numbskulls! :

 

[Rosy]

You seem to put a lot of faith in that survey being accurate Livers yet it doesn't even say how many were surveyed.  Maybe it was just passed around their office staff.  Thay didn't ask me what I'd be doing.  Did anyone else here complete their survey?

P.S. I'll be spending the money and so will the rest of may family spending theirs. Maybe if we were asked we would have tipped the scales a bit the other way.

 

[tigerdave]

Mines going to the AFL for round 17 tickets!

 

[Liverpool]

You seem to put a lot of faith in that survey being accurate Livers yet it doesn't even say how many were surveyed. Maybe it was just passed around their office staff. Thay didn't ask me what I'd be doing. Did anyone else here complete their survey?
P.S. I'll be spending the money and so will the rest of may family spending theirs. Maybe if we were asked we would have tipped the scales a bit the other way.

Considering unemployment is sky-rocketing, then I don't doubt that many people will save their "stimulus money".

You better hope you and your family don't lose their jobs Rosy....as maybe spending it might not be the wisest decision

 

[Rosy]

Weren't you spouting off about the last handouts being a failure with how they were used too Livers, yet later reports showed quite differently. Being such a prolific poster of articles I wonder if you ever posted the ones about the positive outcomes?

My family members wouldn't be the least bit worried about losing their jobs, and I don't mean that flippantly either because I know many are facing that fate, but thanks for the concern.

 

[Liverpool]

Weren't you spouting off about the last handouts being a failure with how they were used too Livers, yet later reports showed quite differently. Being such a prolific poster of articles I wonder if you ever posted the ones about the positive outcomes?

They were a failure and so will the latest ones.

Why?

Because the idea of the stimulus package isn't a present from the Government...the idea of it is to save jobs, well according to Comrade Swan, thats the gist of it:

Treasurer Wayne Swan says Government stimulus package will save jobs
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25171313-5005962,00.html

Now taking into account that unemployment was just over 4% in January....and now we're looking at between 7% and 9% going into next year.....I would be asking myself....whats the point of the stimulus package again? :don't know

 

[Rosy]

Now taking into account that unemployment was just over 4% in January....and now we're looking at between 7% and 9% going into next year.....I would be asking myself....whats the point of the stimulus package again?

If you're going to judge it on figures, for balance and a more informed opinion, you should ask yourself what the figure going into next year would have been without the stimulus package too. Otherwise how can you know if the package made a difference or not?

 

[Liverpool]

If you're going to judge it on figures, for balance and a more informed opinion, you should ask yourself what the figure going into next year would have been without the stimulus package too. Otherwise how can you know if the package made a difference or not?

Do you think people shoving the stimulus package is saving more jobs than the Government spending the money on projects, roads, housing, and other infrastructure....that if you remember correctly, the ALP supporters on this very thread castigated Howard for ignoring!

Well, here's the chance to do something about this "terrible neglect" and what a time to do it with prices coming down on many goods and services and a way to keep companies and jobs going by introducing a range of projects and initiatives.

To me...people putting their $900 in the bank or under the mattress won't do *smile* for saving jobs.

 

[1eyedtiger]

If you're going to judge it on figures, for balance and a more informed opinion, you should ask yourself what the figure going into next year would have been without the stimulus package too. Otherwise how can you know if the package made a difference or not?

Rosy, I'd hate to agree with Livers on political issues (just kidding ;D) but if people spend this money to pay off existing debt, then there is no benefit. They are paying for goods and services already received. It may hold off the banks from foreclosing on home loans for another month. But that's all. Even if everyone did go out and spend the money like the government would, it would be on foreign made products and the benefit would cease immediately after the money was gone. This is a short term measure only, and an expensive one at that. What we need are long term strategies to keep jobs in Australia and keep our own economy going.

Short term measures like this will not halt or reduce unemployment long term. Next year, the unemployment figure will not be affected to this years spending spree.

 

[Rosy]

Rosy, I'd hate to agree with Livers on political issues (just kidding ;D) but if people spend this money to pay off existing debt, then there is no benefit. They are paying for goods and services already received. It may hold off the banks from foreclosing on home loans for another month. But that's all. Even if everyone did go out and spend the money like the government would, it would be on foreign made products and the benefit would cease immediately after the money was gone.

A lot of "ifs" there 1eyed. We don't know what will be done with the money, it's just assumption to suggest it will mainly be hidden under mattresses or used to pay off debt. Every single person I've discussed it with is looking forward to spending it. Even those I know who are in debt who haven't had much to spend lately are looking forward to the chance for a guilt-free spend up.

I'd be interested to know if anyone who is against the package has the strength in their convictions to not accept the payment.

 

[RemoteTiger]

Thanks to the stimulus package both my shops have hit their April Targets already and it is only the 15th of the month. Plus there are many more in my geogrphic area who are still waiting for their cheque. It is saving jobs in my shops as I have not had to lay a staff member off because of lack of revenue.

Had to sack one girl for smoking a joint during smoko though! Silly girl!

Plus I have a number of small businesses as my customers and they are frantic at the moment quoting on various projects for local schools (public education buildings are infrastructure - but you conservatives don't believe in public education - "if its not private its no good"). Being a member of my son's school P & C Association we are currently spending $200,000 on small projects to get instant money into local businesses plus we have requested our $3.2m be spent on extending the school assembly hall and covering the school quadrangle. Plus we have been given approval to spend further money on finally tarring our school car park. Thats a lot of money into infrastructure IMO.

Livers - instead of getting your facts from right wing leaning newspapers - go and see what they are spending there Federal Government Grant on at your children's school - you maybe surprised.

Rosy, I'd hate to agree with Livers on political issues (just kidding ;D) but if people spend this money to pay off existing debt, then there is no benefit. They are paying for goods and services already received. It may hold off the banks from foreclosing on home loans for another month. But that's all. Even if everyone did go out and spend the money like the government would, it would be on foreign made products and the benefit would cease immediately after the money was gone. This is a short term measure only, and an expensive one at that. What we need are long term strategies to keep jobs in Australia and keep our own economy going.

Short term measures like this will not halt or reduce unemployment long term. Next year, the unemployment figure will not be affected to this years spending spree.

Experience shows those that pay off their debt now - will then use the money they earn later on spending rather than paying of their debt then. Which spreads the stimulas further.

I tend to agree with the overseas goods scenario but it could also help those countries economies to strengthen due to their exports to Australia which in turn will enable them to buy our minerals and so our economy benefits again.

Every economist I speak to up here in Canberra - even the conservative chaps all say we would be in a far worse condition had the Rudd Government not provided stimulas - if it had only provided tax cuts we would have again not achieved what the stimulas packages are achieving.

Being in the retail sector I know the stimulas is working - the bakers, the jewelers, the newsagent and the big stores in my shopping plaza are all telling me their sales are up when compared to April last year. Next we expect the bigger school infrastructure projects to kick in and we are sure we can get through to Christmas which is when most are predicting the economy to turn and begin to show signs of growth again.

The only precedence we have for this situation is the Great Deprssion which was made far worse by Governments removing money from the economy and through tariffs and thinking they were supporting their own workforce. It failed yet the blood Libeals under that feeble Turnbull trotted out the same - I was so much hoping he would be a great leader - but the Liberal backroom boys are fixing him up......

Don't worry we are in for a very rough ride - but it could have been a lot worse right now and therefore for far longer without the stimulas packages.......

 

[Rosy]

Livers - instead of getting your facts from right wing leaning newspapers - go and see what they are spending there Federal Government Grant on at your children's school - you maybe surprised.

And while you're at it Livers take a drive on the Melba Highway and check out the massive works going on there.