Ivan Soldo

[leon]

The same applies to every team in the league and not many have the perfect 2nd Ruckman
lets look at the current top 4 teams
Cats have stanley and retread
Lions - Big O then rubbish fort
Pies - This year just cameron and they are wanting to sell Grundy
Swans ?

No decent Rucks after their 1st ruck , You cant have $400k as a spare tyre

But this is where you are distorting or stretching the truth a little. 'Retread' Ceglar is a very experienced ruck. Dawks traded him out because had McEvoy and another huge young ruck coming on. He is big and competitive.
Fort is also big enough to compete with anyone, like Soldo, unlike Nank who is an under-sized ruck. Fort did really well on Gawn in 2nd half last final (although Gawn may be carrying an injury).

Cox is a far better player now, with Fly's coaching/gameplan and is also huge. He only has to relieve Cameron anyway. (We may all hate him but he did win that PF for them in '18). They are all experienced, huge rucks. Not skinny novices - even Cox has added kgs since '18.

Then look at Bloos. Only have the average battler, Pittonet, although he was good enough to beat Nank in Rd.1. Once they lost him, only had talented, light and inexperienced youngster, DeKoning.

What happened to them after lost P and D got fatigued? Gonski.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

But this is where you are distorting or stretching the truth a little. 'Retread' Ceglar is a very experienced ruck. Dawks traded him out because had McEvoy and another huge young ruck coming on. He is big and competitive.
Fort is also big enough to compete with anyone, like Soldo, unlike Nank who is an under-sized ruck. Fort did really well on Gawn in 2nd half last final (although Gawn may be carrying an injury).

Cox is a far better player now, with Fly's coaching/gameplan and is also huge. He only has to relieve Cameron anyway. (We may all hate him but he did win that PF for them in '18). They are all experienced, huge rucks. Not skinny novices - even Cox has added kgs since '18.

Then look at Bloos. Only have the average battler, Pittonet, although he was good enough to beat Nank in Rd.1. Once they lost him, only had talented, light and inexperienced youngster, DeKoning.

What happened to them after lost P and D got fatigued? Gonski.

But the point i was making was that a "Spare" ruckman for insurance can be aquired cheaply and on low $$
No team has a spare backup ruck thats on $400k+ or shouldnt unless they have the ability to be a very good 2nd position player

Miller has shown we are more agile with a mobile 2nd ruck and Ryan should be given every chance at that role

 

[leon]

But the point i was making was that a "Spare" ruckman for insurance can be aquired cheaply and on low $$
No team has a spare backup ruck thats on $400k+ or shouldnt unless they have the ability to be a very good 2nd position player

Miller has shown we are more agile with a mobile 2nd ruck and Ryan should be given every chance at that role

We probably just have to agree to differ. It's been great to see Miller come on as the spare, but if Ryan is really ready to step up, Miller will go back again, which I would love because otherwise Balta is our tallest back at only 194cm. Lot of KPFs much taller these days so he can be easily out-reached. Miller that little taller can take some of these and release Balta for a more attacking role which he loves with his explosive speed and long kicking.

Ryan is still unproven but if he's ready to be promoted in '23, must begin about 30/70 spare ruck/forward. Let's hope he can stand up.

A lot of teams are rating 2 decent quality rucks nowadays such as current premiers with Gawn/Jackson. McStay supports McInerney and he would be on $400k probably.

Although I've been a critic of Soldo, I've already provided my arguments re while he is worth keeping. He's also one of our flag-winners. And one of your cheapo spare (discard) rucks will simply not cut it if Nank went down. If we can afford an offer to Logue of Freo, we can afford to keep big Ivan.

 

[Dyer'ere]

If it is very likely that Ivan Soldo will be overlooked for senior games next year just so we can develop Samson Ryan. Even if Soldo is the better player. Soldo's management has to look for opportunity.

It is very rare that a ruck who would play senior football at R1 elsewhere plays reserves in his current club. Lloyd Meek is a recent exception. He will play seniors next year but his management should have sought a trade last year. (Poor management.) He's missed a year of development.

Samson Ryan would get a game at many clubs next year. Perhaps even this year as it turned out.

Who will languish in the reserves in 2023, missing match payments/incentives? Soldo or Ryan?

Did we punt CJ and Mabior yet keep Ryan? There's a reason for that. We rate Ryan.

Meek's management let him down. He had to play ones in 2022. Poor management. Soldo's management should find him opportunity in 2023 and beyond. (So should George's.)

I'll be very happy if we keep Ivvy. But he may be better off playing ones for a buck.

 

[KenM]

Soldo would be a good fit for the Magpies imho. I’d prefer to keep him though. He has improvement in him.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

A lot of teams are rating 2 decent quality rucks nowadays such as current premiers with Gawn/Jackson. McStay supports McInerney and he would be on $400k probably.

McStay is not a Ruckmans A hole and is only 195cm
3 cm shorter than Miller and 12 cm shorter than Ryan and same height as Balta

I think you just made my point more relevant

 

[leon]

McStay is not a Ruckmans A hole and is only 195cm
3 cm shorter than Miller and 12 cm shorter than Ryan and same height as Balta

I think you just made my point more relevant

I don't rate McStay at all either as a KPF or a spare, and I'm delighted Colonwood do and offering him plenty more even that the Brions are paying.

It's in relation to your claim that "No team has a spare backup ruck thats on $400k+" when Jackson is on ~$600- 700k too. So it's clearly disproved. Another would be Lobb at Freo as spare to support Darcy, and he's going to Dogs for even more in same role to English.

Your claims are easily shown to be rubbish, and at those rates, Soldo is good value for ruck security, not some list clogger.

 

[leon]

If it is very likely that Ivan Soldo will be overlooked for senior games next year just so we can develop Samson Ryan. Even if Soldo is the better player. Soldo's management has to look for opportunity.

It is very rare that a ruck who would play senior football at R1 elsewhere plays reserves in his current club. Lloyd Meek is a recent exception. He will play seniors next year but his management should have sought a trade last year. (Poor management.) He's missed a year of development.

Samson Ryan would get a game at many clubs next year. Perhaps even this year as it turned out.

Who will languish in the reserves in 2023, missing match payments/incentives? Soldo or Ryan?

Did we punt CJ and Mabior yet keep Ryan? There's a reason for that. We rate Ryan.

Meek's management let him down. He had to play ones in 2022. Poor management. Soldo's management should find him opportunity in 2023 and beyond. (So should George's.)

I'll be very happy if we keep Ivvy. But he may be better off playing ones for a buck.

Yes, I don't dispute your view. It might be very much in our interests to keep Ivvy, but not so much for his. However, I prefer it's his decision and not us shoving him out the door or offering him up to GWS. He is a Tigers' premiership player, of course, and has key family connections to the club through both Maric, Balta and Co.

But don't agree that we wanted both CCJ and Mabs out. Just couldn't match the deal for either with our tight SC, given we valued them at a lower rate and for Mabs the 'go home to family' factor was too strong also. Still reckon he was almost the ideal 2ndR though because far better as a KPF who would/could have filled the huge hole in our list when JR goes, and JR is not a 2ndR anyway. Chol proved this by kicking 40+ goals for GCS. (Still have worries about JR becoming a greater liability in '23 too). CCJ I expect may turn into a fair 1st ruck but no great loss on current form in '22.

I'm hopeful for Ryan too, but still unknown against the big men of AFL. There's no certainty he can cut it yet.

 

[thomas the tiger]

Soldo is very well respected at tiger land. His improvement has been remarkable.
That said he deserves senior games so maybe he does need to move elsewhere. Maybe the lions may trade their first for soldo and pick and some lower picks to gain points for Ashcroft

 

[spook]

But the point i was making was that a "Spare" ruckman for insurance can be aquired cheaply and on low $$
No team has a spare backup ruck thats on $400k+ or shouldnt unless they have the ability to be a very good 2nd position player

Miller has shown we are more agile with a mobile 2nd ruck and Ryan should be given every chance at that role

While I agree with Jack that Soldo is probably better off seeking opportunity elsewhere, he is that cheap spare insurance ruckman on low dollars. Not a chance we're paying him anywhere near $400k. He got a three-year deal post-knee. An extra year but lower per year. $250ish per year = $750-800ish guaranteed.

Better for him if he leaves, better for us if he stays.

 

[Carter]

Agree with Jack and Spooker here. Samson before Ivan is logical.

But here's a somewhat controversial scenario -

What if Nank's body is stuffed and he can't impact?

Soldo is still building after the knee and may simply need another pre-season.

Is it possible that our captain finds himself the third ruck at some point in 2023?

 

[Mr Brightside]

I’ve said similar before and theres now way we move the half Skip on , however I think after next season Soldo will probably be offering more as a Ruck and most likely will have an extra 3 or 4 years on Nank as a ruck .

Nank is one of my all time faves , however due to his shortness and lack of leap for a modern day ruck along with the fact that he has been a full time ruck from a young age in AFL terms , on top of that the way he plays he’s body must feel like he’s 50 when he hits the ice baths .

Wont and Shouldn’t happen , however Nank from a business point , has much more trade value and a lot less playing time left in his career .

Big Ivan could be a huge part of our future after next season , in saying that we need a Hopper type more importantly then a tap ruckman , especially considering we have a few options on the list outside of Nank , I’d like to see Biggy given a similar role to Miller over the pre season , imho he could be the better player in that role .

Could we be the first team to play to “ back up” rucks ?

 

[Carter]

If we get Taranto and Hopper it'd be nice to have a tap ruckman who can put it to advantage.

Winning some clearances would be a great addition to our turnover game and make us formidable indeed.

Nankervis does not provide this, Soldo does.

More I think about it the more I reckon Nankervis may represent a selection dilemma in 2023. If not early doors then certainly at some point in the season.

As Brightside rightly points out, very difficult to move on a culture man like him.

But he has value.

 

[wigglyworm]

If it is very likely that Ivan Soldo will be overlooked for senior games next year just so we can develop Samson Ryan. Even if Soldo is the better player. Soldo's management has to look for opportunity.

It is very rare that a ruck who would play senior football at R1 elsewhere plays reserves in his current club. Lloyd Meek is a recent exception. He will play seniors next year but his management should have sought a trade last year. (Poor management.) He's missed a year of development.

Samson Ryan would get a game at many clubs next year. Perhaps even this year as it turned out.

Who will languish in the reserves in 2023, missing match payments/incentives? Soldo or Ryan?

Did we punt CJ and Mabior yet keep Ryan? There's a reason for that. We rate Ryan.

Meek's management let him down. He had to play ones in 2022. Poor management. Soldo's management should find him opportunity in 2023 and beyond. (So should George's.)

I'll be very happy if we keep Ivvy. But he may be better off playing ones for a buck.

Pretty sure we drafted Ryan a year before CJ and Chol left. Did they know something we didnt. I always thought it was weird drafting Ryan when we had Chol and CJ on the list. Ryan needs to play seniors next year for sure and Soldo will surfer for it. Lets not discount Nank having time on the sidelines with Injury either

 

[daniel30]

Yep bit of a risk if he goes coming of a knee for a bigman next season could hit his straps again like in 2019 he looked real good.

I think worse case scenario target a wafl or sanfl ruckman neither both teams in the gf this year have great rucks.

 

[Eddie from Elwood]

If we get Taranto and Hopper it'd be nice to have a tap ruckman who can put it to advantage.

Winning some clearances would be a great addition to our turnover game and make us formidable indeed.

Nankervis does not provide this, Soldo does.

More I think about it the more I reckon Nankervis may represent a selection dilemma in 2023. If not early doors then certainly at some point in the season.

As Brightside rightly points out, very difficult to move on a culture man like him.

But he has value.

Need to train Hopper up to be a lockdown mid, a bull that fights and scraps for the ball directly against his oppo. Tarranto the tapee and sharker swapping with Shai. Cotch in burst and Neon Dion just does what he does. Nank isn't a great tap ruckman but holds his own on most occasions. Hopefully it won't matter too much!

 

[Brooklyn Tiger]

I don't think we are paying 7yrs and truckload of cash for a lockdown mid. Nor trade 1st rdsfor them either. He can be a contested beast and clearance machine .

 

[Mr Brightside]

I don't think we are paying 7yrs and truckload of cash for a lockdown mid. Nor trade 1st rdsfor them either. He can be a contested beast and clearance machine .

Yep no need to lockdown on a player when you’ve got the ball yourself .

In saying that EFE brings up a good point that we don’t have a lockdown type , doubt we are about to either as Dimma dosent seem to use that type in the midfield rotations , personally I wouldn’t mind having a D Kellaway ( very good hand baller) type just in case

 

[AngryAnt]

Seeing rumours that Soldo could be part of the Taranto/Hopper deals.

Would do it in a heartbeat, thanks for everything big man but time to move on.

 

[craig]

Soldo is also a Richmond man.

He is a big Culture player at the club too, as is Graham the other name that keeps being thrown up.

Handed down by Big Ivan.

You can't maintain culture if you throw out the next generation that were developed within it.

I'm not so bullish on letting Ivvy go tbh.

Another pre-season into that knee should have him back at 2019 - 2020 output.