#lolNorf

[TigerPort]

Insanity, Benny's original 5 year plan was ambitious but possible, this sounds like pie in the sky stuff.

The plan was announced in 2010 and for 5 years part of which was 3 years playing finals. So similar to what Norf is saying but we didn't say top 4. We ended up playing finals in 2013/14/15 so a quick turn around is achievable.

However we did have Martin Cotchin Rance Riewoldt already playing in 2010

 

[craig]

They've given him 3 years to get them into the top 4, that's a tough assignment

Might need 3 years to get em out of the bottom 4........................................

They wont have Tarrant or Goldie for much longer either.

 

[Long Lost Hernaman]

What rot to come out and say they expect to be somewhere near top 4 in the next 3 to 4 years.

Ambition is goof, but a publicly stated expectation which is completely unachievable is counterproductive.

They are miles off and have no idea.

They should be pilloried down there but few care. Its North.

 

[23.21.159]

What rot to come out and say they expect to be somewhere near top 4 in the next 3 to 4 years.

Ambition is goof, but a publicly stated expectation which is completely unachievable is counterproductive.

They are miles off and have no idea.

They should be pilloried down there but few care. Its North.

Many would have said the same about 3-0-75.

 

[Tiger Rob]

I too read the statement re top 4.

Why, just why?

It’s not like they have a massive supporter base to appease.

That’s just setting themselves, or rather the coach more specifically, up for failure.

Sounds like a CEO big noting himself.

 

[Long Lost Hernaman]

Many would have said the same about 3-0-75.

I know what you're saying but there are important differences, including:

- our plan was based on a 10 year plan, not 3 or 4
- the 0 and 75 were based on a large, strong and hugely passionate fan base with a record of putting in for their club

 

[IanG]

The plan was announced in 2010 and for 5 years part of which was 3 years playing finals. So similar to what Norf is saying but we didn't say top 4. We ended up playing finals in 2013/14/15 so a quick turn around is achievable.

However we did have Martin Cotchin Rance Riewoldt already playing in 2010

top 4 contending for a premiership in 3 years is not similar to us IMO.

 

[tigertim]

top 4 contending for a premiership in 3 years is not similar to us IMO.

Yeah, if you’re going to compare Richmond 2010 with North 2020 it took us 3 years to make finals, 7 years to make top 4.

We had the nucleus of a flag side in Rance, Cotch, Edwards, Jack, Dusty, Astbury. I can’t see whatever is left of Norths list being the nucleus of a flag side.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

top 4 contending for a premiership in 3 years is not similar to us IMO.

Hardwick missed top four by half a game in his fourth year.

Will be interesting to see what North looks like next year. Richmond's average age over 2010-11 was 23.17 and expansion teams aside, you need to go back to North c. 1988-91 to find another team as young over consecutive years, prior to their run of seven consecutive prelims/two flags 1994-2000.

North was the 9th-oldest team in 2020 @ 25.77, just behind Richmond (25.83), so there will need to be some significant "downbuilding" before they can establish a platform for sustained improvement.

Of Richmond's 16 oldest players in 2010, 11 had ~20 games or fewer remaining at Richmond; only Tuck (28), Newman (27), King (26), Foley (24) and Jackson (23) kicked on to any extent.

Looking at North's oldest 16:

Player	Age Today	2020 Gms
Goldstein, Todd	32.4	17
Tarrant, Robbie	31.6	16
Hall, Aaron	30.0	15
Ziebell, Jack	29.7	8
Cunnington, Ben	29.4	3
Campbell, Tom	29.1	1
Atley, Shaun	28.2	17
Polec, Jared	28.1	13
Walker, Josh	28.0	17
Tyson, Dom	27.5	-
Garner, Taylor	26.9	2
Anderson, Jed	26.8	15
Corr, Aidan	26.5	(15)
McDonald, Luke	25.8	17
Dumont, Trent	25.4	17
Turner, Kayne	24.9	-

Hall, Campbell, Tyson, Garner would not be seen as long-term players; probably Walker & Turner also. Polec is only there because they couldn't offload his oversized salary (Jordie McMahon equivalent). Goldstein and Tarrant are entering their twilight. Ziebell and Cunnington are important but injury-prone. Atley, Anderson, McDonald and Dumont are AFL-standard triers and Corr is a solid player coming off a PB year at GWS.

Simpkin, Davies-Uniacke, Thomas, Scott and perhaps Larkey of their younger group look clearly above average. Then there is Stephenson with obvious ability (Rising Star) but whose career is at the crossroads.

It's not all doom and gloom if you're looking at it from a glass-half-full perspective. Seems reasonable to think North will not sink as low as early-2010 Richmond, but their climb out might be slower due to natural attrition at the top of the list. It might almost be better for them if some of the older players fall off the perch and the kids are exposed early - take the pain and crash or crash through, as Hardwick did.

 

[seven]

They've given him 3 years to get them into the top 4, that's a tough assignment

Plus North have cleaned their list of most of their experienced players.

 

[CarnTheTiges]

Yeah, if you’re going to compare Richmond 2010 with North 2020 it took us 3 years to make finals, 7 years to make top 4.

We had the nucleus of a flag side in Rance, Cotch, Edwards, Jack, Dusty, Astbury. I can’t see whatever is left of Norths list being the nucleus of a flag side.

To be fair, Cotchin aside, I don’t think anyone could have predicted how good the others would become. Dusty and Astbury were 1st year draftees. Hardwick himself didn’t see Jack as the key forward, and you only have to look at the comments here about Edwards and Rance at the time to see that many of us didn’t see them as Premiership players.

 

[IanG]

Doesn't sound like the Norf coaching process was all that independent:

Were North Melbourne candidates “up against it” in coaching race?

David Noble landed the Kangaroos role.

www.sen.com.au

 

[mrposhman]

Hardwick missed top four by half a game in his fourth year.

Will be interesting to see what North looks like next year. Richmond's average age over 2010-11 was 23.17 and expansion teams aside, you need to go back to North c. 1988-91 to find another team as young over consecutive years, prior to their run of seven consecutive prelims/two flags 1994-2000.

North was the 9th-oldest team in 2020 @ 25.77, just behind Richmond (25.83), so there will need to be some significant "downbuilding" before they can establish a platform for sustained improvement.

Of Richmond's 16 oldest players in 2010, 11 had ~20 games or fewer remaining at Richmond; only Tuck (28), Newman (27), King (26), Foley (24) and Jackson (23) kicked on to any extent.

Looking at North's oldest 16:

Player	Age Today	2020 Gms
Goldstein, Todd	32.4	17
Tarrant, Robbie	31.6	16
Hall, Aaron	30.0	15
Ziebell, Jack	29.7	8
Cunnington, Ben	29.4	3
Campbell, Tom	29.1	1
Atley, Shaun	28.2	17
Polec, Jared	28.1	13
Walker, Josh	28.0	17
Tyson, Dom	27.5	-
Garner, Taylor	26.9	2
Anderson, Jed	26.8	15
Corr, Aidan	26.5	(15)
McDonald, Luke	25.8	17
Dumont, Trent	25.4	17
Turner, Kayne	24.9	-

Hall, Campbell, Tyson, Garner would not be seen as long-term players; probably Walker & Turner also. Polec is only there because they couldn't offload his oversized salary (Jordie McMahon equivalent). Goldstein and Tarrant are entering their twilight. Ziebell and Cunnington are important but injury-prone. Atley, Anderson, McDonald and Dumont are AFL-standard triers and Corr is a solid player coming off a PB year at GWS.

Simpkin, Davies-Uniacke, Thomas, Scott and perhaps Larkey of their younger group look clearly above average. Then there is Stephenson with obvious ability (Rising Star) but whose career is at the crossroads.

It's not all doom and gloom if you're looking at it from a glass-half-full perspective. Seems reasonable to think North will not sink as low as early-2010 Richmond, but their climb out might be slower due to natural attrition at the top of the list. It might almost be better for them if some of the older players fall off the perch and the kids are exposed early - take the pain and crash or crash through, as Hardwick did.

I think their biggest worry is that their 4 best players are in the top 5 oldest. Their top 4 players are clearly Goldstein, Cunnington, Tarrant and then Ziebell in that order IMO. For a team that wants to be top 4 in 3 years, they need some serious breakout seasons from those below. The problem for them is that age group that would propel you to top 4 (see Tigers in 2014) are completely devoid of talent. Where are their classy 22 year olds that will take them to the next level despite losing their best 4 players over the next couple of years?? Their list profile certainly doesn't seem like a list that will suddenly jump into top 4 contention. They will site Brisbane jumping very quickly to the top 4 this year but they were in the bottom 4 for a lot longer and got a lot of high end draft picks together as they built into that top 4 position. Nothing like North really.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Doesn't sound like the Norf coaching process was all that independent:

Were North Melbourne candidates “up against it” in coaching race?

David Noble landed the Kangaroos role.

www.sen.com.au

Strange way to go about landing a big fish................................................................... oh wait. They haven't actually been able to do that with either a player or a coach.
Three coaching applicants made it to the final coin toss. None of them actual stand out, exciting, obvious next coach in waiting prospects and the bloke that wins the job had to be pushed up to the starting gates to make him even run.
Way to go #lolnorf, just so confidence inspiring.

 

[zippadeee]

What's Hardwick's record from 2013 to today and 2017 to today?
Because no-one should count his first and second year, the team he inherited was a B-Grade amateur side.
The pieces were there to build a good side but when he finally got rid of players like Griffens and Vickery things started to turn.
If we aren't the best team ever at using the rookie draft, i would go he.
Hardwick copped shiit at the start but now he is among the best not just at Richmond but in the history of the AFL.
If we get one more he will match Sheedy and go past Parkin, Pagan, & Malthouse and leave Blight the clown in his dust.
This bloke needs a statue.

 

[DavidSSS]

What's Hardwick's record from 2013 to today and 2017 to today?
Because no-one should count his first and second year, the team he inherited was a B-Grade amateur side.
The pieces were there to build a good side but when he finally got rid of players like Griffens and Vickery things started to turn.
If we aren't the best team ever at using the rookie draft, i would go he.
Hardwick copped shiit at the start but now he is among the best not just at Richmond but in the history of the AFL.
If we get one more he will match Sheedy and go past Parkin, Pagan, & Malthouse and leave Blight the clown in his dust.
This bloke needs a statue.

Even more than that, if he gets one more he will equal Hafey, rarefied air indeed.

DS

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

What's Hardwick's record from 2013 to today and 2017 to today?

Period

M​

W​

L​

D​

Win %​

For​

Ag​

%​

Avg Age​

Age Diff​

Avg Gms​

Gms Diff​

Avg Hgt​

Hgt Diff​

All

252​

145​

104​

3​

58.1​

22084​

20789​

106.2​

24.69​

-0.33​

88.0​

-4.3​

186.9​

-0.8​

2010-12

66​

24​

40​

2​

37.9​

5952​

6687​

89.0​

23.42​

-1.14​

64.6​

-21.3​

187.2​

-0.2​

2013-current

186​

121​

64​

1​

65.3​

16132​

14102​

114.4​

25.14​

-0.04​

96.4​

+1.7​

186.8​

-1.0​

2017-current

95​

71​

23​

1​

75.3​

8189​

6488​

126.2​

25.32​

+0.02​

99.9​

+3.6​

185.8​

-2.0​

 

[tigerman]

Period

M​

W​

L​

D​

Win %​

For​

Ag​

%​

Avg Age​

Age Diff​

Avg Gms​

Gms Diff​

Avg Hgt​

Hgt Diff​

All

252​

145​

104​

3​

58.1​

21996​

20684​

106.3​

24.69​

-0.33​

88.0​

-4.3​

186.9​

-0.8​

2013-current

186​

121​

64​

1​

65.3​

16132​

14102​

114.4​

25.14​

-0.04​

96.4​

+1.7​

186.8​

-1.0​

2017-current

95​

71​

23​

1​

75.3​

8189​

6488​

126.2​

25.32​

+0.02​

99.9​

+3.6​

185.8​

-2.0​

A 75% winning strike rate since 2017, we've been spoilt.

 

[taztiger4]

Period

M​

W​

L​

D​

Win %​

For​

Ag​

%​

Avg Age​

Age Diff​

Avg Gms​

Gms Diff​

Avg Hgt​

Hgt Diff​

All

252​

145​

104​

3​

58.1​

21996​

20684​

106.3​

24.69​

-0.33​

88.0​

-4.3​

186.9​

-0.8​

2013-current

186​

121​

64​

1​

65.3​

16132​

14102​

114.4​

25.14​

-0.04​

96.4​

+1.7​

186.8​

-1.0​

2017-current

95​

71​

23​

1​

75.3​

8189​

6488​

126.2​

25.32​

+0.02​

99.9​

+3.6​

185.8​

-2.0​

excellent, as we've gotten, older, shorter & (probably) fatter, we have got better.

Hope for me yet

 

[zippadeee]

Period

M​

W​

L​

D​

Win %​

For​

Ag​

%​

Avg Age​

Age Diff​

Avg Gms​

Gms Diff​

Avg Hgt​

Hgt Diff​

All

252​

145​

104​

3​

58.1​

22084​

20789​

106.2​

24.69​

-0.33​

88.0​

-4.3​

186.9​

-0.8​

2010-12

66​

24​

40​

2​

37.9​

5952​

6687​

89.0​

23.42​

-1.14​

64.6​

-21.3​

187.2​

-0.2​

2013-current

186​

121​

64​

1​

65.3​

16132​

14102​

114.4​

25.14​

-0.04​

96.4​

+1.7​

186.8​

-1.0​

2017-current

95​

71​

23​

1​

75.3​

8189​

6488​

126.2​

25.32​

+0.02​

99.9​

+3.6​

185.8​

-2.0​

Unbelievable. Take away 2016.
He is buzzing in the 70% for winning.
Thanks mate.