Marriage Equality

[tigersnake]

This whole protecting the rights of bigot bakers to refuse to bake a cake for a queen is a rich vein for comedians. Fair dinkum. If a billionaire gay dude planning the wedding of the decade walks into a local bigot bakery and ordered $30K worth of cakes, he won't get knocked back.

 

[Giardiasis]

If a billionaire gay dude planning the wedding of the decade walks into a local bigot bakery and ordered $30K worth of cakes, he won't get knocked back.

What a great example of how the market economy enshrines social cooperation and incentivises people with irreconcilable views to peacefully interact. You’re a champion of free markets TS!

 

[tigersnake]

What a great example of how the market economy enshrines social cooperation and incentivises people with irreconcilable views to peacefully interact. You’re a champion of free markets TS!

true. I've been telling you that for 10 years.

 

[Brodders17]

This whole protecting the rights of bigot bakers to refuse to bake a cake for a queen is a rich vein for comedians. Fair dinkum. If a billionaire gay dude planning the wedding of the decade walks into a local bigot bakery and ordered $30K worth of cakes, he won't get knocked back.

true. But what about the gay couple who live in a small country town and want a simple cake from the local Bigot baker who is the only person for miles who makes cakes?

 

[craig]

true. But what about the gay couple who live in a small country town and want a simple cake from the local Bigot baker who is the only person for miles who makes cakes?

Just playing devils advocate here.

The question being why is the baker a bigot if it is against their religious beliefs..... Is it just because you say they are because they don't agree with you?

Would you be calling the local Baker a Bigot if they were Muslim cos I'm pretty sure you would'nt as they are against Homosexuality and under Sharia Law actually kill Homosexuals by stoning them or throwing them off buildings.

The largest sections of the community that were against the gay marriage bill were in the West of Sydney all Muslim dominated communities but hey lets forget about the facts just as media outlets did and pay it scant attention and just go and bash old Christian Whitey.

If it is against someones religious ways, teachings or beliefs then as we are told by the Totalitarian State that all religious beliefs must be respected for whatever reason and no one can deride peoples for their religious beliefs ...... then the religious beliefs of Christians, Catholics, Evangelicals, Protestants,, Sikhs, Muslims, Taoists, Buddhists, Hindus, Allawhites, Coptics are of equal standing.

You cant go pointing fingers at one just particular sect because they are the popular soft target that wont bash your skull in if you offend them.

 

[Harry]

Craig, you make alot of sense, yet you felt the need to play devils advocate. People are afraid to say how it is in case they're called all sorts of names.

It's hip to call white christians bigots and racists, yet we have to be more tolerant of muslim beliefs.

Does a christian priest have the right to refuse a gay marriage?

 

[MB78]

Just playing devils advocate here.

The question being why is the baker a bigot if it is against their religious beliefs..... Is it just because you say they are because they don't agree with you?

Would you be calling the local Baker a Bigot if they were Muslim cos I'm pretty sure you would'nt as they are against Homosexuality and under Sharia Law actually kill Homosexuals by stoning them or throwing them off buildings.

The largest sections of the community that were against the gay marriage bill were in the West of Sydney all Muslim dominated communities but hey lets forget about the facts just as media outlets did and pay it scant attention and just go and bash old Christian Whitey.

If it is against someones religious ways, teachings or beliefs then as we are told by the Totalitarian State that all religious beliefs must be respected for whatever reason and no one can deride peoples for their religious beliefs ...... then the religious beliefs of Christians, Catholics, Evangelicals, Protestants,, Sikhs, Muslims, Taoists, Buddhists, Hindus, Allawhites, Coptics are of equal standing.

You cant go pointing fingers at one just particular sect because they are the popular soft target that wont bash your skull in if you offend them.

Great summary. The same standards need to be applied across the board with your beliefs otherwise you are a someone who believes in double standards.

 

[jb03]

Just playing devils advocate here.

The question being why is the baker a bigot if it is against their religious beliefs..... Is it just because you say they are because they don't agree with you?

Would you be calling the local Baker a Bigot if they were Muslim cos I'm pretty sure you would'nt as they are against Homosexuality and under Sharia Law actually kill Homosexuals by stoning them or throwing them off buildings.

The largest sections of the community that were against the gay marriage bill were in the West of Sydney all Muslim dominated communities but hey lets forget about the facts just as media outlets did and pay it scant attention and just go and bash old Christian Whitey.

If it is against someones religious ways, teachings or beliefs then as we are told by the Totalitarian State that all religious beliefs must be respected for whatever reason and no one can deride peoples for their religious beliefs ...... then the religious beliefs of Christians, Catholics, Evangelicals, Protestants,, Sikhs, Muslims, Taoists, Buddhists, Hindus, Allawhites, Coptics are of equal standing.

You cant go pointing fingers at one just particular sect because they are the popular soft target that wont bash your skull in if you offend them.

I would point the finger at any religion that discriminates. Which is pretty much all of them.

 

[DavidSSS]

I would point the finger at any religion that discriminates. Which is pretty much all of them.

This, bigotry should be called out no matter from where it comes.

DS

 

[Giardiasis]

I would point the finger at any religion that discriminates. Which is pretty much all of them.

Name one person or organisation that doesn’t discriminate.

 

[Coburgtiger]

Just playing devils advocate here.

The question being why is the baker a bigot if it is against their religious beliefs..... Is it just because you say they are because they don't agree with you?

Would you be calling the local Baker a Bigot if they were Muslim cos I'm pretty sure you would'nt as they are against Homosexuality and under Sharia Law actually kill Homosexuals by stoning them or throwing them off buildings.

The largest sections of the community that were against the gay marriage bill were in the West of Sydney all Muslim dominated communities but hey lets forget about the facts just as media outlets did and pay it scant attention and just go and bash old Christian Whitey.

If it is against someones religious ways, teachings or beliefs then as we are told by the Totalitarian State that all religious beliefs must be respected for whatever reason and no one can deride peoples for their religious beliefs ...... then the religious beliefs of Christians, Catholics, Evangelicals, Protestants,, Sikhs, Muslims, Taoists, Buddhists, Hindus, Allawhites, Coptics are of equal standing.

You cant go pointing fingers at one just particular sect because they are the popular soft target that wont bash your skull in if you offend them.

You're not playing devils advocate. You're setting up a straw man.

Nobody anywhere said Muslim homophobia is any better than Christian homophobia.

Bigotry based on religious beliefs is bigotry regardless of where those beliefs come from.

If a Muslim person is being a bigot, it's no better or worse than a Christian person being a bigot, and nobody here has said otherwise. But that also doesn't mean you should treat all religious people as bigots. Surely that's not difficult?

Ironically, the reverse is actually more applicable. People in the no camp wanted Australia to base our law on Christian Religious beliefs, but would have found the idea of basing any law on Muslim beliefs ridiculous.

People can live their lives by whatever set of beliefs they want, as long as it doesn't prejudice anyone else. But no random religious idealogy should be written into the law of a secular society.

 

[thegdog]

It’s wrong. The end.

 

[Giardiasis]

People can live their lives by whatever set of beliefs they want, as long as it doesn't prejudice anyone else.

What a subjective and horribly ambiguous standard in which to organise society. Everyone is guilty of prejudice, we’ll all have to be locked up.

 

[Willo]

You're not playing devils advocate. You're setting up a straw man.

Nobody anywhere said Muslim homophobia is any better than Christian homophobia.

Bigotry based on religious beliefs is bigotry regardless of where those beliefs come from.

If a Muslim person is being a bigot, it's no better or worse than a Christian person being a bigot, and nobody here has said otherwise. But that also doesn't mean you should treat all religious people as bigots. Surely that's not difficult?

Ironically, the reverse is actually more applicable. People in the no camp wanted Australia to base our law on Christian Religious beliefs, but would have found the idea of basing any law on Muslim beliefs ridiculous.

People can live their lives by whatever set of beliefs they want, as long as it doesn't prejudice anyone else. But no random religious idealogy should be written into the law of a secular society.

Just a question. If a person is against gay marriage because of their strong beliefs (religious or personal) that makes them a bigot?

Then really those throwing stones at those people are bigots themselves.

Bigot
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own.
Person extremely intolerant of others and irrespective of reasoning.



For me, personally, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs whether I agree with them or not. It's called a free society.
I wouldn't call anyone whose beliefs differ than mine a bigot. They can be wrong as much as they like

If there's one thing I can't stand its intolerant people ;D

 

[Brodders17]

Just a question. If a person is against gay marriage because of their strong beliefs (religious or personal) that makes them a bigot?

Then really those throwing stones at those people are bigots themselves.

Bigot
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own.
Person extremely intolerant of others and irrespective of reasoning.



For me, personally, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs whether I agree with them or not. It's called a free society.
I wouldn't call anyone whose beliefs differ than mine a bigot. They can be wrong as much as they like

If there's one thing I can't stand its intolerant people ;D

as an aside I only used bigot cos it was in the post I was replying to.
i wouldnt classify everyone anti-gay marriage as bigots, necessarily.

and Craig, you sound like Pauline Hanson, bringing Sharia law into this discussion. if there Sharia Law practiced in Australia it is in tiny pockets. it is not what the majority of Muslims in Australia follow or want to follow.- but that is for another thread.

 

[MB78]

and Craig, you sound like Pauline Hanson, bringing Sharia law into this discussion. if there Sharia Law practiced in Australia it is in tiny pockets. it is not what the majority of Muslims in Australia follow or want to follow.- but that is for another thread.

Please explain what’s going on in Western Sydney? ;D

 

[Coburgtiger]

Just a question. If a person is against gay marriage because of their strong beliefs (religious or personal) that makes them a bigot?

Then really those throwing stones at those people are bigots themselves.

Bigot
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own.
Person extremely intolerant of others and irrespective of reasoning.



For me, personally, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs whether I agree with them or not. It's called a free society.
I wouldn't call anyone whose beliefs differ than mine a bigot. They can be wrong as much as they like

If there's one thing I can't stand its intolerant people ;D

Believing homosexuality will send a person to hell in your religion under your God, is different to assuming that all people should act under the same belief. One is having a belief, one is suggesting that your belief should be the one everyone lives by. Being 'against gay marriage' is different to trying to ensure no gay people are allowed to marry.

But you're right in that the concept of bigotry is really only relevant in the wider discussion of who should be allowed, under law, to marry. Most people are intolerant, or at least dismissive, of others beliefs to an extent, the degree to which you act on that is where bigotry comes into it. It's probably more fair to refer to the homophobic Baker, rather than the bigot one.

The original point being that those who find homophobia reprehensible don't care which religion it comes from. And it was setting up an odd and unrelated straw man to start a Christian vs Muslim angle.

What a subjective and horribly ambiguous standard in which to organise society. Everyone is guilty of prejudice, we’ll all have to be locked up.

Yes, well seeing you don't believe in laws or government I don't know why you bother discussing them. If you think that institutionalised racism/homophobia etc is fine, then we really have nothing to discuss.

 

[Giardiasis]

Yes, well seeing you don't believe in laws or government I don't know why you bother discussing them. If you think that institutionalised racism/homophobia etc is fine, then we really have nothing to discuss.

Sure I believe in laws, I just don’t believe that the legal system should be monopolised by governments. You don’t have to think racism/homophobia is fine to tolerate views that endorse it. I’d much prefer people that hold those views are given as much time as they want to air them, as they are very easy to argue against (I can then simply avoid those people that continue to hold those views). Pretty hard to do so when viewpoints that don’t cause physical harm to anyone are deemed illegal and are suppressed.

You just made the argument that religious people shouldn’t be allowed to force their views on others, well what other choice do they have when we have a government that has monopolised marriage laws? There is a one size fits all approach by default. Instead of worrying about people’s feelings, we should be worrying about their private property rights, something you have no qualms about trampling on. This real injustice is what allows racists and homophobes to stoke the fire of violence.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

I have absolutely no problem with people who conduct a free enterprise choosing who they do business with. This is not discrimnation in the sense that I think of it. You haven't lost income, or healthcare or access to education or employment or public transport. You don't have a "right" to buy a cake IMO. Free speech, now, allows anyone to make as big a song and dance as they like, within the law, and let everyone know that the local baker refused you service because of your sexual orientation. Public feeling being what it is this will likely cost them business. That is how it works. Legislating for issues like this is using a mallet to squash a bug, IMO.

 

[Rosy]

My way of thinking too Knighters. I wouldn't want a cake made by someone who didn't want to do it for me. Plenty of other bakers around who would enjoy the opportunity.