Peggy O'Neal on ABC Q&A tonight

[Giardiasis]

I get that consent in his case is key, but as you said it is impossible to prove or disprove. So how do you go about doing it? Character reference and circumstance therefore seem to be the only proxy available as arguments in the absence of concrete evidence. Do you know who the burden of proof falls on?

 

[YinnarTiger]

I'd think that the burden of proof is on the police to show that consent was not given. Based on the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

I get that consent in his case is key, but as you said it is impossible to prove or disprove. So how do you go about doing it? Character reference and circumstance therefore seem to be the only proxy available as arguments in the absence of concrete evidence. Do you know who the burden of proof falls on?

Not only in this case Gia. Always.

No idea where the burden lies in this case though. Only one person has spoken so far as I know. And they are saying there was no consent. In all likelihood the truth is lost. Neither probably remembers the moment at which it was/wasn't given and human nature and the impressive fallibility of memory means it is probably lost for good.

 

[tigerlove]

Still judging her based on her profession which is not relevant. SHe made a poor choice. Haven't we all. But I can't understand how hard it is for people to wrap their heads around consent. Again, we really don't know if the player did in fact do anything wrong here but the only thing that matters is whether she consented to it. This one is black and white. Consent isn't implied. My analogy on another board dealing with this story was of a smash-up derby driver. If I know a bloke who drives smash-up derbys for a living is it okay for me to beat the suitcase out of car without his consent if he said I could drive it? He does it for a quid so he shouldn't get upset should he? His consent for one does not mean the other is implied, does it?

Not arguing consent. I understand consent. I am talking about responsibility and maturity as an adult to control the situation and prevent it from happening in the first place. It's simple. Don't get yourself into a position where it can happen if you don't want it to happen. Flash around your tits all the time and eventually something is going to happen. I know if I walk down dark alleys at night all the time flashing around gold chains and thick wallets that someone is going to mug me sooner or later. Yes the mugging is illegal but I have contributed to the situation by being stupid. Yes the mugger should be punished but it's your body, you have the ultimate responsibility. This is very different to say a king hit from behind or paparazzi taking long lens shots of you naked in your own backyard where it is out of your control. Yeah the player spread aphoto of an anonymous woman's tits and it's illegal. But where are we in society where everyone looks for blame and media is talking about it like a murder case, the worst thing that could possibly happen, especially form the hordes of feminists, when just the other day a guy responsible for the death of a baby found with over 50 body bruises is sentenced to 4 years and walks out a free man after just 2 years. It's all skewed.

 

[tigerlove]

I imagine next to impossible Gia. Hence the difficulty in getting rape convictions. But that isn't the point. So many people posting that somehow her right to any protection by consent is diminished by her occupation. I find that repugnant.

Not repugnant at all. None of my friends have ever had their tits passed around on social media (at least none that I know of). Once she matures she'll understand that the more you do something, the higher chance something will happen. If you don't respect yourself then how can you expect others to respect you? Time for the media to move on and concetrate on some of the real atrocities that happen in society. This is such a first world issue.

 

[skybeau]

Not repugnant at all. None of my friends have ever had their tits passed around on social media (at least none that I know of). Once she matures she'll understand that the more you do something, the higher chance something will happen. If you don't respect yourself then how can you expect others to respect you? Time for the media to move on and concetrate on some of the real atrocities that happen in society. This is such a first world issue.

Bris didn't answer this (the rest of his answer was pretty good though).

How does allowing a nude photo to be taken of yourself indicate you have no self-respect? It's a perfectly valid form of sexual expression between two adults. Do we cease such an activity because a bunch of angry hurt men (and yes, some women) have betrayed the confidence of those victims who thought their partner could be trusted?

The only lack of respect being shown is by the brigade of people criticizing the woman based on her occupation ("once she matures"...give me a break). KR's points about consent are spot on.

 

[tigerlove]

How does allowing a nude photo to be taken of yourself indicate you have no self-respect? It's a perfectly valid form of sexual expression between two adults.

Don't know. I never indicted allowing a nude photo to be taken of you in an intimate situation signifies lack of self-respect. Here's a question. Why would you consent to a photo being taken of you and then ask for it to be deleted? Doesn't add up I'm afraid.

The only lack of respect being shown is by the brigade of people criticizing the woman based on her occupation ("once she matures"...give me a break). KR's points about consent are spot on.

I'm sorry you've misinterpreted my argument. I'm not arguing the consent, of course she is in her rights to complain about not giving consent to distribute the photo. My point is ultimately it's your body and if you are concerned about the potential of your tits being publicly exposed on social media, don't go around flashing them at every opportunity as there is a much higher likelihood it will happen. Maybe stripping is not for you if that's a major concern. Young people often don't consider the potential consequences. That's immaturity. I am not absconding the player and others of responsibility but the media reaction has been ridiculously overplayed. It's not a murder, it's an unidentifiable person's torso with a premiership medal neatly presented. I'm suspecting if it wasn't an AFL premiership player and instead some local competition's medal presented in such a way no-one would be any the wiser. Move on.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Not arguing consent. I understand consent. I am talking about responsibility and maturity as an adult to control the situation and prevent it from happening in the first place. It's simple. Don't get yourself into a position where it can happen if you don't want it to happen. Flash around your tits all the time and eventually something is going to happen.

So you understand consent, you just don't care. Cool. And you are only addressing the responsibility of the passive party, the woman, without any reference to the active party, the bloke that shared it.

I know if I walk down dark alleys at night all the time flashing around gold chains and thick wallets that someone is going to mug me sooner or later. Yes the mugging is illegal but I have contributed to the situation by being stupid.

Still victim blaming. The counter is if you hang around in dark alleys hoping to beat the suitcase of some unsuspecting passer by, it's somehow their fault. Nope.

Yes the mugger should be punished but it's your body, you have the ultimate responsibility. This is very different to say a king hit from behind or paparazzi taking long lens shots of you naked in your own backyard where it is out of your control. Yeah the player spread aphoto of an anonymous woman's tits and it's illegal. But where are we in society where everyone looks for blame and media is talking about it like a murder case, the worst thing that could possibly happen, especially form the hordes of feminists, when just the other day a guy responsible for the death of a baby found with over 50 body bruises is sentenced to 4 years and walks out a free man after just 2 years. It's all skewed.

Really struggling to see the relevance. Just sounds like 'whataboutery'. Media looking for a hot story is not new. People commenting on these boards that because there is a chance that the girl in the photo is a stripper or knew she was being photographed somehow diminishes her right for that to be kept private is not okay.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Yeah I reckon it is relevant. None of my friends would have flashed their tits around and therefore wouldn't have risked the potential for this situation to occur. If you are concerned about pictures of your tits, don't consent to let someone take photos with their mobile phone. It is then out of your control. Take responsibility for your own actions. Of course she is not solely to blame, the player should not have spread the photo, but seriously why does she think he would take the photo, to get off on it? She has significantly contributed to this and one finds it hard to believe a stripper has suddenly become modest about her tits. The media beat up of this is just way over the top. No-one would have been the wiser about the identity of the person in this picture (which shows no face) if she didn't decide to involve the media. You have to wonder who is giving her advice. This is the problem with today's society, all blame and no responsibility.

zs1saasawwzsa1eaa2swzs2esas2 [EDIT] <----- Some kind of pocket post. Not sure what happened there.

Not repugnant at all. None of my friends have ever had their tits passed around on social media (at least none that I know of). Once she matures she'll understand that the more you do something, the higher chance something will happen. If you don't respect yourself then how can you expect others to respect you? Time for the media to move on and concetrate on some of the real atrocities that happen in society. This is such a first world issue.

It is a small issue, made large by our feeling that we are connected to it. Even by media standards it is a small issue. But what isn't small is the deplorable way some people on these boards have been quick to dismiss the right to privacy of someone because they chose a particular career. None of us can know what was said. The thing that interests me is way some have belittled a person's right to privacy. It tells us how they would act in the same situation. It seems many would ignore a request for privacy because, well...she's only stripper, or she likes to see herself photographed nude. She can enjoy that without being made public property. No matter which way you squirm, this is absolutely about consent.

 

[tigerlove]

It is a small issue, made large by our feeling that we are connected to it. Even by media standards it is a small issue. But what isn't small is the deplorable way some people on these boards have been quick to dismiss the right to privacy of someone because they chose a particular career. None of us can know what was said. The thing that interests me is way some have belittled a person's right to privacy. It tells us how they would act in the same situation. It seems many would ignore a request for privacy because, well...she's only stripper, or she likes to see herself photographed nude. She can enjoy that without being made public property. No matter which way you squirm, this is absolutely about consent.

You know what? If this was one of my girls in the same situation, I would be very disappointed in them as an adult and the decisions they had made and suggest to them that they should stop flashing themselves at every opportunity. Yes, of course, I would be angry at the perpetrators but unlike you and many it seems in the media just looking to big note themselves, I wouldn't put the blame solely at the feet of the photo takers, I would suggest it was the poor actions and decisions of both parties that contributed to this. You seem to not understand that the profession of this person is going to logically increase their chances of such an event. Or to suggest they are comfortable flashing themselves in public (yes with head fully intact to identify them) anf therefore why the angst at a non-identifiable photo? It is not deplorable of posters to suggest this, it is common sense. And to say belittling someone's privacy tells us how they would act in the same situation? What sort of assumption is this? I would never share a private sexual photo of someone but I wouldn't take the photo either and I certainly wouldn't bare myself and open up to one. Again can someone answer why someone would consent to have a photo taken on a mobile phone (which let's face it is most likely going to be kept for prosperity and possibly shared) and then ask for it to be deleted. Makes no sense. I think we have a publicity seeker here. No-one would have known any better otherwise. Over-emphasised story on the basis that it involves an AFL player, no more, no less.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

You know what? If this was one of my girls in the same situation, I would be very disappointed in them as an adult and the decisions they had made and suggest to them that they should stop flashing themselves at every opportunity. Yes, of course, I would be angry at the perpetrators but unlike you and many it seems in the media just looking to big note themselves, I wouldn't put the blame solely at the feet of the photo takers, I would suggest it was the poor actions and decisions of both parties that contributed to this. You seem to not understand that the profession of this person is going to logically increase their chances of such an event. Or to suggest they are comfortable flashing themselves in public (yes with head fully intact to identify them) anf therefore why the angst at a non-identifiable photo? It is not deplorable of posters to suggest this, it is common sense. And to say belittling someone's privacy tells us how they would act in the same situation? What sort of assumption is this? I would never share a private sexual photo of someone but I wouldn't take the photo either and I certainly wouldn't bare myself and open up to one. Again can someone answer why someone would consent to have a photo taken on a mobile phone (which let's face it is most likely going to be kept for prosperity and possibly shared) and then ask for it to be deleted. Makes no sense. I think we have a publicity seeker here. No-one would have known any better otherwise. Over-emphasised story on the basis that it involves an AFL player, no more, no less.

I don't see why a sexually open person who isn't worried about nudity in their private life and may even choose to sometimes be nude in public or even be photographed nude shouldn't be allowed to choose when and where that freedom is expressed? You may not be of that bent, I may not. So what? You aren't the person whose rights may have been infringed upon. It just isn't relevant what you or I would do, or what you think your daughters might do. Consent is the issue here and any suggestion that her consent is less valuable than yours because she has different values to you is repugnant in my opinion. Consent either matters or it doesn't. In an era when it is becoming harder for men who don't care too much about consent and who see women as commodities are finding it harder to hide it really matters that men in particular understand how important it is and can recognise when they have it and when they don't.

I completely understand that you might want to counsel her about poor choices or speculate about why she says she asked for it to be deleted. There could have been minutes or hours between the photo being taken and when she "allegedly" asked for him to delete it. She may have been posing in playfulness and looking at the pictures as part of foreplay and enjoying the attention and admiring her image. Later she may have decided that now that playtime was over she didn't want the image to still be around. All of this is speculation like most posts on this subject, but that is a quite believable scenario to me.

It is amazing to me how much of the focus is on the woman though when the reason we know about it is because of the bloke. He shared it around. Turn the tables, what would you do if you found out a bloke was sharing around pictures of one of your girls? Why are you so focussed on her actions, not his?

 

[skybeau]

Don't know. I never indicted allowing a nude photo to be taken of you in an intimate situation signifies lack of self-respect. Here's a question. Why would you consent to a photo being taken of you and then ask for it to be deleted? Doesn't add up I'm afraid.

Oh, then what is it about this woman that tells you she doesn't respect herself? Smells like a judgment to me.

To me, her actions sound like someone who wasn't immediately comfortable with the photo being taken, but agreed. Then decided that no, she didn't want the photo kept and asked for it's deletion.

And regardless, who cares if she gave consent for the photo to be taken, if she withdraws her consent, those wishes should be respected. Say if you went out, met a woman at a bar who was all over you, you go back to her place, the two of you end up naked in her bed, condoms are opened...then she decides that she doesn't want sex. Whatever consent may have existed prior to this is now irrelevant. She has told you she doesn't want sex. Therefore, if you proceed with sex, it's now illegal.

I'm sorry you've misinterpreted my argument. I'm not arguing the consent, of course she is in her rights to complain about not giving consent to distribute the photo. My point is ultimately it's your body and if you are concerned about the potential of your tits being publicly exposed on social media, don't go around flashing them at every opportunity as there is a much higher likelihood it will happen. Maybe stripping is not for you if that's a major concern. Young people often don't consider the potential consequences. That's immaturity. I am not absconding the player and others of responsibility but the media reaction has been ridiculously overplayed. It's not a murder, it's an unidentifiable person's torso with a premiership medal neatly presented. I'm suspecting if it wasn't an AFL premiership player and instead some local competition's medal presented in such a way no-one would be any the wiser. Move on.

And away you go with the victim blaming and judgment based on occupation (and gender too) again. If you really cannot see that a person's occupation does not define who they are, then this is just a waste of time. And not having visited a stripper before, but I'm pretty sure that there would be pretty strict guidelines about not taking pictures of the performers.

As for your last post...if that is seriously going to be your reaction to your own daughters, good grief. Because, as this story has shown, they'll receive plenty of disgusting, distasteful and unwarranted commentary and judgment from every individual who can access their photos. And then, from their own father, they'll get this response "oh well if you hadn't flashed everybody". You know that's akin to saying "if you hadn't worn that short skirt/been drunk/been out late/etc" when a woman is raped.

 

[Al Bundy]

Any updates from the cops yet?

 

[caesar]

Any updates from the cops yet?

There is a "Blocked" Herald Sun article saying player in nude photo named but don't know whether it expands on progress.

 

[Rosy]

There is a "Blocked" Herald Sun article saying player in nude photo named but don't know whether it expands on progress.

It doesn't expand on progress.

POLICE have identified the Richmond Tigers footballer at the centre of the topless Premiership medal photo scandal.
The investigation has entered its second week and police are assessing the information they have.

As part of the evidence hunt, the phones of some Richmond players could be seized to determine how many times the leaked photo of the barebreasted female, draped with a Premiership medal around her neck was forwarded on.

Police would not comment on any developments except to say: “The investigation is ongoing.”

 

[tigerlove]

As for your last post...if that is seriously going to be your reaction to your own daughters, good grief. Because, as this story has shown, they'll receive plenty of disgusting, distasteful and unwarranted commentary and judgment from every individual who can access their photos. And then, from their own father, they'll get this response "oh well if you hadn't flashed everybody". You know that's akin to saying "if you hadn't worn that short skirt/been drunk/been out late/etc" when a woman is raped.

Well that's just ridiculous, comparing this situation to one of a woman being raped for wearing a skirt? Now that's disgusting. I stand by my remarks. I was brought up to take responsibility for my actions and I teach the same to my children. No-one takes responsibility anymore for their own actions. It's always a blame game. Who can I sue? That wasn't my fault. Excuses, excuses. Let's continually change the laws to protect the stupid, the immature, the irresponsible. As I said from the start, the responsibility and blame can be levelled at BOTH parties, BOTH are to blame and BOTH will learn from it. Resolution of society issues comes from teaching at both ends, prevention and perpetrators. Whilst society keeps moving to a blame game state this becomes increasingly difficult and creates more social issues. In the scheme of personal and problems in society this one is minor and does not deserve the airplay and over-dramatisation it has received. An anonymous person's tits shared around. Wow. Throw the book at em. Western world has become way too PC. Last I am saying on this. I am moving on as should have this issue a long time ago.

 

[tigerlove]

I don't see why a sexually open person who isn't worried about nudity in their private life and may even choose to sometimes be nude in public or even be photographed nude shouldn't be allowed to choose when and where that freedom is expressed?

With that comment it is clear you just have no comprehensive ability to understand what I am saying and just go off on tangents so let's leave it there.

 

[Rosy]

......
An anonymous person's tits shared around. Wow. Throw the book at em. Western world has become way too PC.
........

I suspect the women wasn't anonymous to some who received the photos. There's a good possibility others knew who the player was with. If and I mean if...the photos weren't deleted as requested and were forwarded without permission it's nothing to do with political correctness. It's illegal and just not acceptable imo. The way it should be to protect us all.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

With that comment it is clear you just have no comprehensive ability to understand what I am saying and just go off on tangents so let's leave it there.

Happy to.