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Re: Adam Goodes

LeeToRainesToRoach

Get out Gillon
Jun 4, 2006
23,675
899
Melbourne
DavidSSS said:
Yeah Goodes was a great footballer, and used his position to shed light on issues which are ignored too often.

Pity how well he played against us :(

DS
Like Matthew Pavlich, Goodes saved his best for better opposition and rarely tore us up.
 
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MD Jazz

Tiger Champion
Feb 3, 2017
3,791
454
Ian4 said:
probably be criticised for this, but this is the demographic of your traditional footy fan.
In part you are right, and that is why you don’t hear the SEN broadcasters being critical enough of these morons. Many are their bread and butter.
 
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22nd Man

Tiger Champion
Aug 29, 2011
4,685
246
Essex Heights
MD Jazz said:
In part you are right, and that is why you don’t hear the SEN broadcasters being critical enough of these morons. Many are their bread and butter.
SEN may not be critical of those callers but on AW they are positively encouraged.
 
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Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
19,504
404
Melbourne
i'm surprised this wasn't bumped after last night. here is my take on it...

My view on this has always been that the boos started because he was acting like a flog playing for free kicks. Then got taken over by the racists... and got shamefully out of control.

Australians in general refuse to admit that we are an inherently racist country. But how else do you explain it when people like Pauline Hanson, Fraser Anning, Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones have a platforms to spew their hateful sh!t and Eddie McGuire makes numerous indiscretions and is still untouchable?

Waleed Ali's point about Australians being "tolerant until a minority tries to express himself" rang true to me.

A Sydney Swans friend of mine pointed something out to me on Facebook last night that shocked me. Not because what he said wasn't true, but because i didn't see it myself... He said "If Adam Goodes was singled out and booed for diving, why doesn't Joel Sellwood cop it as well?" And he's 100% correct. Sellwood is the biggest cheat the game has ever seen and has never copped anything resembling what Goodes did in those years.

Goodes was racially villified by footy fans. Pure and simple. it is undeniable IMO.

But the worst thing of all is that people will talk about this documentary for a few days, then will get thrown out like yesterday’s newspaper like nothing had ever happened. This will not be a turning point. There is absolutely zero chance we as Australians will learn from this. And that makes me sad.
 
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TJsFurrow

T W E L V E
Jan 12, 2012
1,159
59
Melbourne
There's a certain amount of people who will never see the original reason for the booing as racially motivated, so let's put that aside for the moment. If someone tells you that your booing is hurtful to both themselves and their community, I think at some point compassion would kick in and override the urge to debate the details.
IMO the key concept to grasp here is trust. Even if Adam - and every indigenous person who felt hurt by this - was entirely off the mark about the motivation, the fact is they didn't feel they could trust that the booing was free of racial overtones. If you've ever spent time walking through public spaces with an indigenous person (or you're indigenous yourself), you'll know about a funny vibe that crops up from time to time. Sometimes it's subtle and sometimes it's outwardly racist, but it happens to all indigenous people. I remember seeing a press conference with LeBron James after his front fence was sprayed with racial slurs, and he said that somewhere in his heart he'll never know which white person might hold this kind of hate for him because of his racial background. There's always a part of him that holds an initial mistrust until they show him otherwise because he knows there's a percentage - perhaps small, perhaps large - that wish him harm.
We need to show them otherwise, because trust issues are at the heart of reconciliation. And it's just the right thing to do.
 
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The Big Richo

Moderator
Aug 19, 2010
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The home of Dusty
I think the issue is that those who refuse to see the booing as racism lack the intelligence to understand.

Therefore it is always going to be an unwinnable debate.
 
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tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
21,991
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I think the issue is that those who refuse to see the booing as racism lack the intelligence to understand.

Therefore it is always going to be an unwinnable debate.
Agree, people who refuse to see things the same way as me lack intelligence.
 
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lukeanddad

Tiger Champion
Nov 17, 2008
2,915
143
I haven't seen the documentary yet, but I must say, this is one of the best (non-football) pages on PRE. Brilliant stuff
 
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22nd Man

Tiger Champion
Aug 29, 2011
4,685
246
Essex Heights
I knew the doco was coming but missed the date and only stumbled over it part way through and then I had to head out and missed the last twenty five minutes.
Was superbly done.
Some of the commentators come across as absolute gooses. Viz Tony Jones unequivocal conclusion that it was absolutely not rascict.
But he and many of the sports media were badly out of their depth and to a significant degree came at from exactly the same position as those doing the booing.
As for mainstream media the views pretty well reflected their respective stance on virtually every social issue.
Anyone who thinks the nation is pretty homogeneous culturally only has to look at the Sydney radio bigots.... there is no way Jones and Co would survive in Melbourne.
Getting back to the issue ...all the "it wasn't rascict" proponents from outside football media have the starting point that Australia is not a racist country and so to concede that the booing was racially motivated is to say that Australia is a racist nation. But no one ever defines what a racist nation is but everyone thinks it probably isn't a good thing thus we have to do everything in their powers to dispel the possibility.
The it was because he stages argument got more laughable the longer the booing went on. And as others have said Selwood should be in a padded room if we gave it to him for that and Sideshow Brown should be reconsidering his future in the game.
The only funnier/ sadder thing was the reaction to the "spear". Maguire hang your head you bogan," it was provocative and dangerous", nothing like the feral scum of his club hanging over the fence spitting and abusing every opponent within reach.

My view is that the booing was condemnation for Goodes daring to have a view. And a view that causes discomfort for those it targets. Yes Cyril wasn't booed because he never made a stand. Michael Lomg is respected but did all after he left the game and he has made many of the same points as Goodes.
The conservative media view is that an Australian of the Year has to come out a lay lavish praise on the nation and all who reside in it. I think the psychiatric bloke spent his year telling us we were basically **** when it came to mental health. And the two cave divers I haven't heard them kissing our collective arses, their message is get kids into the outdoors.
Inherent in the anti Goodes pack is that indigenous people have gained a lot from western civilisation and so an indengenous AoY should show gratitude for all Europeans have done for them. This is a line repeated by many like Panahi, Bolt and Elliott.

"We" tolerate, like even love indengenous people particularly if they can take a speccy but "we" don't like uppity, opinionated ones who dare shine a light on the dark side of Australia's moon.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
10,992
1,713
I was once set upon by a guy with red hair walking a salamander. Goddam lizard-fish lovin' rangas.
Funnily enough, some of my best mates are sauce heads. None of 'em are into amphibians though.
this took me back.
 
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RoarEmotion

Tiger Matchwinner
Aug 20, 2005
822
103
Was an interesting doco. I watched it on the channel 10 catch up app.

How some of the media twisted what Adam said/did about the 13 year old was pretty eye opening and probably incited the crowd reaction IMO.

I’ve booed plenty of opposition players for being snipers or staging and resent being told I can’t do that but I don’t usually do it unless they repeat that behaviour in a game (and Selwood or Greene won’t let you down in this regard)

Not sure I’ve bood someone just coming into a game as the thing to do though although it seemed Ablett got some of that this year.

I guess at it heart how do you get hundreds of thousands of people to take the time to understand where someone is coming from when basically all they are doing is going to the footy at the end of the week to cheer and yell..... when does this normal cheering and yelling transition from normal to a form of abuse. ....?

This would have only worked if leadership and media rationally addressed both issues instead of making it an either or scenario.

Doco does a good job helping us see where Goodes would have been coming from.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
10,992
1,713
The only funnier/ sadder thing was the reaction to the "spear". Maguire hang your head you bogan," it was provocative and dangerous", nothing like the feral scum of his club hanging over the fence spitting and abusing every opponent within reach.

"We" tolerate, like even love indengenous people particularly if they can take a speccy but "we" don't like uppity, opinionated ones who dare shine a light on the dark side of Australia's moon.
from memory, there was some pretty funny dialogue on here about the invisible spearing?

Actually, a look back through the early pages does kind of tell a story of how far we have come as a society.

It's interesting.

Still a very long way to go.

Ive settled on the viewpoint that a formal, unambiguous and honest acknowledgement that the colonisation of our nation was an orchestrated campaign of unfathomable violence and brutality,

can be the only starting point for reconciliation. and until we reconcile, we remain bound in a worsening B-grade cultural horror show

I envisage The leader who will show us the way is black and probably still in primary school.

And I truly believe that successful reconciliation will be cathartic and 20 million Australians will get to feel a slow release version of what we felt in September 2017

I also think Richmond embracing Treaty Victoria shows us how this stuff works. We feel proud and empowered and stronger for our Richmond culture; Black people respect us, embrace us and want to play with us; we win premierships; we become stronger and better
 
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lukeanddad

Tiger Champion
Nov 17, 2008
2,915
143
from memory, there was some pretty funny dialogue on here about the invisible spearing?

Actually, a look back through the early pages does kind of tell a story of how far we have come as a society.

It's interesting.

Still a very long way to go.

Ive settled on the viewpoint that a formal, unambiguous and honest acknowledgement that the colonisation of our nation was an orchestrated campaign of unfathomable violence and brutality,

can be the only starting point for reconciliation. and until we reconcile, we remain bound in a worsening B-grade cultural horror show

I envisage The leader who will show us the way is black and probably still in primary school.

And I truly believe that successful reconciliation will be cathartic and 20 million Australians will get to feel a slow release version of what we felt in September 2017
As is the case in many areas, our little brother across the Tasman has shown us how to go about it. I honestly don't understand the hesitance. Firstly, I don't believe it would cost us anything to make the Statement you suggest. (Am I missing something). In addition, 5 million will roll their eyes and say, 'what crap'. 10 m will say, 'good stuff' and the other 10 m probably don't care either way.

Again, am I missing something?
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
10,992
1,713
As is the case in many areas, our little brother across the Tasman has shown us how to go about it. I honestly don't understand the hesitance. Firstly, I don't believe it would cost us anything to make the Statement you suggest. (Am I missing something). In addition, 5 million will roll their eyes and say, 'what crap'. 10 m will say, 'good stuff' and the other 10 m probably don't care either way.

Again, am I missing something?
Possibly L&D?, im not sure?.

I agree with demographics, but in my mind

Its way more than a Statement, and therefore a very long way from easy.

I imagine its like a national rebirthing with the screaming, a huge metaphorical dilating cervix, wailing and crying.

IMO We basically need to dismantle the rhetorical foundations of White Australian identity - The Fair Go.

A more opposite script of a Fair Go for Black Australia could not have been conceived.

Then once we dismantle the horror of that central dillusion,

we need to assign some constitutional power to the originals and let them rebuild a parallel, symbiotic, concurrent new nation within our agreed framework. and we need to be entirely prepared for it to take as long or longer, and make as many **** ups, as we made and took building Modern Australia. and we need to temper our expectations that it will be perfect. It will be better, but imperfect and troubled, cause we are humans.

So, I'm thinking one of the biggest peaceful reforms ever undertaken.

But I think we can and must and will do it. And that it will possibly take 50-100 years and the planet will likely be ******.

so,
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
18,606
510
A Sydney Swans friend of mine pointed something out to me on Facebook last night that shocked me. Not because what he said wasn't true, but because i didn't see it myself... He said "If Adam Goodes was singled out and booed for diving, why doesn't Joel Sellwood cop it as well?" And he's 100% correct. Sellwood is the biggest cheat the game has ever seen and has never copped anything resembling what Goodes did in those years.

Goodes was racially villified by footy fans. Pure and simple. it is undeniable IMO.
This has been been said many times on this thread ian. Yes, pure and simple. He's not the first ageing champ who started to snipe and stage, but he's the first to be routinely booed, at the very least to that extent. Wayne Carey wrote the book on sniping, whingeing and staging, and for him it was throughout his career. Made Goodes look like a amateur in comparison.
 

Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
19,504
404
Melbourne
Wayne Carey wrote the book on sniping, whingeing and staging, and for him it was throughout his career. Made Goodes look like a amateur in comparison.
Wayne Carey did the biggest dog act a mate could ever do to a mate. yet i don't recall him being booed when he returned to footy.