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Re: Adam Goodes

Rosy

Tiger Legend
Mar 27, 2003
54,347
4
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

antman said:
I'll take that bet and lay $99 billion on it. Any takers?
I should have said how do you know rather than how can you know. Feel free to answer the question if you think a significant number of those booing are opposed to the aboriginal race rather than Adam's own behaviour.
 

Coburgtiger

Tiger Champion
May 7, 2012
2,761
271
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

rosy23 said:
Ok so a "significant number" is a bit of meaningless claim then. One person could be as significant as 10,000 if we want to be pedantic. How do you know some "simply don't like aboriginal people"? Are there any examples or is it just guesswork being posted as fact? For example do you think the 13yo girl and Eddie McGuire, who made racist comments, are opposed to the aboriginal race? To me that's a big assumption to make about anyone unless you have evidence of it. I've heard people discuss their issues with Adam's comments on race relations and his war dance but I've never heard of anyone saying they don't like aboriginals in general.
I have heard racist comments at games, heard racist opinions amongst people discussing it in bars/social events, and seen racist comments about it on many social media pages.

First hand evidence of actual racism. Again, not the majority, or even most, but it's significant enough to be concerning.
 

Rosy

Tiger Legend
Mar 27, 2003
54,347
4
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

Coburgtiger said:
I have heard racist comments at games, heard racist opinions amongst people discussing it in bars/social events, and seen racist comments about it on many social media pages.

First hand evidence of actual racism. Again, not the majority, or even most, but it's significant enough to be concerning.
I agree all that happens, disappointingly and concerningly, but to me it doesn't necessarily equate to someone being against a race as a whole. I don't see how you judge it as being opposed to the aboriginal race rather than being rude, insulting and ignorant comments aimed at individuals.

I'll ask again....The 13yo girl and Eddie McGuire made what were judged as making racist comments. Do you consider them to be opposed to Adam's race?

I get what you are saying about racist comments. I don't get how you can generalise that people making them are opposed to a particular race though. A race that is made up of individuals with different lifestyles, different personalities, different achievements. It's a massive assumption to suggest they are opposed as a race.
 

Coburgtiger

Tiger Champion
May 7, 2012
2,761
271
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

rosy23 said:
I agree all that happens, disappointingly and concerningly, but to me it doesn't necessarily equate to someone being against a race as a whole. I don't see how you judge it as being opposed to the aboriginal race rather than being rude, insulting and ignorant comments aimed at individuals.

I'll ask again....The 13yo girl and Eddie McGuire made what were judged as making racist comments. Do you consider them to be opposed to Adam's race?

I get what you are saying about racist comments. I don't get how you can generalise that people making them are opposed to a particular race though. A race that is made up of individuals with different lifestyles, different personalities, different achievements. It's a massive assumption to suggest they are opposed as a race.
I don't think Eddie is racist, wouldn't have a clue about the 13 yo, probably not, and I think their comments were ignorant/politically incorrect, and although dangerous in and of themselves, not indicative of any hate.

Their comments are not like the comments which I've heard at various times at the footy. I really don't want to type them here, but some of the things said about Goodes have been generalisations of his whole race using extremely offensive stereotypes. That's only the outright comments. No doubt those exist in a very small part, but I would suggest again this is not the central issue. The issue is the racial element to the dislike of Goodes and his actions, and the mob mentality of the bullying.
 

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
16,538
827
Bali/Jakarta
So now in another attempt to pretend that racism doesn't exist you now have to be "opposed to a race" to be racist?

Seems a tad weird.
 

Rosy

Tiger Legend
Mar 27, 2003
54,347
4
antman said:
So now in another attempt to pretend that racism doesn't exist you now have to be "opposed to a race" to be racist?

Seems a tad weird.
I agree. I certainly haven't said that and I don't think Coburg has either. Who are you referring to and who is attempting to pretend that racism doesn't exist?
 

brigadiertiger

Tiger Champion
Dec 1, 2005
3,436
3
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

IanG said:
No because he also said "There was nothing untoward to the Carlton supporters. It was actually something for them to stand up and go, 'yep we see you, and we acknowledge you - bring it on.'"
So they brought it on and booed him and he still didn't like it.
 

IanG

Tiger Legend
Sep 27, 2004
15,953
113
Melbourne
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

rosy23 said:
That still doesn't explain you quoting me discussing being opposed to his race with a reply about "other dirty players". In the context of the actual discussion why did you quote me? Maybe you were in a roundabout way agreeing with me with what you said. Other Indigenous players not copping the same treatment as Adam because they aren't outspoken like Adam, as you said, indicates to me it's more personal than a dislike of the race in general.

Significant does not necessarily mean majority I agree but I think that's splitting hairs a bit. How can you know any of those booing were opposed to the Aboriginal race?
I was replying to this in your post "The fact other indigenous players aren't targeted the same way indicates to me it probably isn't the case." And if the treatment of Adam isn't because of his race but because he's a dirty player as many assert then why is his treatment worse than for other dirty players.
 

Rosy

Tiger Legend
Mar 27, 2003
54,347
4
As I said Ian that's out of context. As I said I reckon you just fired off a response to me without even taking the discussion into account. I'm used to that happening. :hihi

BTW did the other dirty players you refer to ask opposition supporters to come at them and bring it on? Sometimes you get what you ask for.
 

Peaka

Tiger Rookie
Feb 14, 2005
244
0
Regrettably Adam Goodes is a divisive figure. I am not sure that it was his intention to be so but results trump intentions and so he will be seen by many in the community as a divider rather than a person who brings society closer together. This is sad given that his legacy as a talented indigenous footballer will be lessened by this perception.


Unfortunately racism is somewhat endemic of the Hunan condition. This saddens me but almost every race to a greater and lesser extent is inherently racist. The Chinese have a word that is used in a derogatory sense for anybody who is not Chinese, ethnic Malays practice endemic racism against Malaysians of other races, in parts of Africa Arab Africans discriminate against non Arabs, the list is almost endless. The only way to sve racism is through education and by treating everybody equally. Sadly we don't do this in Australia and until we do so racism will remain part of our society. I wish it wasn't so.

I hope we can increase awareness but not sure we will solve the problem here.

Go tiges
 

Rosy

Tiger Legend
Mar 27, 2003
54,347
4
Peaka said:
...... The only way to sve racism is through education and by treating everybody equally. Sadly we don't do this in Australia and until we do so racism will remain part of our society. I wish it wasn't so.

I hope we can increase awareness but not sure we will solve the problem here.

Go tiges
Hooray at last someone who agrees people should be treated equally. I'm astounded people have disagreed with that when I've said it. Agree we won't solve the problem here but then again neither will we win a Tiger premiership here. :hihi
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
11,133
201
rosy23 said:
Hooray at last someone who agrees people should be treated equally. I'm astounded people have disagreed with that when I've said it.
http://i.imgur.com/QtdDA42l.jpg

im more concerned about people having equal opportunity.
 

Rosy

Tiger Legend
Mar 27, 2003
54,347
4
Brodders17 said:
http://i.imgur.com/QtdDA42l.jpg

im more concerned about people having equal opportunity.
What do you see as the main differences in treating people equally and people having equal opportunity? Are you concerned about both? How is that image relevant to what I said? I assume you're agreeing with what I said for a change though not sure why quoted me to post it with no comment the first time.
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
11,133
201
rosy23 said:
What do you see as the main differences in treating people equally and people having equal opportunity? Are you concerned about both? How is that image relevant to what I said? I assume you're agreeing with what I said for a change though not sure why quoted me to post it with no comment the first time.
i dont have an issue with people from disadvantaged populations getting assistance to access the same opportunities that those living with advantage have.
i think Indigenous Australians need assistance to bring their levels of health and education closer to the rest of Australia.
I think kids from regional areas should have access to assistance to ensure they can access the same opportunities as kids in cities.
I think some people with disability need assistance to access the same opportunities as others.
I think people who arrive in Australia as refugees need more assistance to understand Australian systems than those who grow up here.
i think people who earn high incomes should pay higher taxes.
I think people who earn reasonable incomes should not be able to access the same gov benefits that people on minimal incomes receive.

so no, i do not agree with the blanket statement that all people should be treated equally.

i posted the link after quoting you because i think the cartoon shows the fallacy of the "all people should be treated equally" argument.
 

Rosy

Tiger Legend
Mar 27, 2003
54,347
4
antman said:
All those people booing goodsie sure showed him how equal he is.
He didn't treat others equally either. I think both sides have a way to go there. No doubt we're nowhere near achieving equality. Would you like to see people treated equally?

Would you mind answering the top post here .
 

Rosy

Tiger Legend
Mar 27, 2003
54,347
4
Brodders17 said:
.......

so no, i do not agree with the blanket statement that all people should be treated equally.

i posted the link after quoting you because i think the cartoon shows the fallacy of the "all people should be treated equally" argument.
Why not quote Peaka who raised it then? Rhetorical question alert there :blah

You might consider that comic a fallacy. I consider it an example of what I'd love to see eradicated from the world.
 

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
16,538
827
Bali/Jakarta
rosy23 said:
He didn't treat others equally either. I think both sides have a way to go there. No doubt we're nowhere near achieving equality. Would you like to see people treated equally?

Would you mind answering the top post here .
Treating people "equally" in this context makes no sense. I use different words to different people every day. I react to them in different ways. Equality of rights, sure, but that's not what you seem to be talking about.
 

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
16,538
827
Bali/Jakarta
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

rosy23 said:
I should have said how do you know rather than how can you know. Feel free to answer the question if you think a significant number of those booing are opposed to the aboriginal race rather than Adam's own behaviour.
Here's where the "opposed to a race" quote came from Rosie.